                                    ‘July 12 Pinned News’
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Israel – Israel's chief Ashkenazi rabbi has denounced the "phenomenon of women who make their careers on the backs on their children."
"The principle role of the Jewish mother throughout the generations has been to take care of the home and the children," Yona Metzger told a religious assembly.
"It is important that this principle be respected," he said, adding that "a prolonged absence by women from home is damaging for children's education."
The rabbi said he was not against women working, on the condition that they "don't build careers."
Women in Orthodox Jewish families often work, as the men devote themselves to study. [AFP]
“Where is the Bitachon we were taught?
Since when should we worry about parnossa, especially as a bachur.Our only thoughts should be,just learning.Any other ideas is the yaitzar harah.”
July 15, 2007 10:24 PM
Agreed: it SHOULD and I WISH it would be so ”just learning” but the facts have shown other wise; that a big part of them are not interested in learning especially a whole full day, therefore, for THOSE that r totally and obviously not int. rather that going through the old struggle – let them learn part-time and the rest as I’ve written! (note: their learning will also be in a better standard knowing that they are not forced to do so for a full day…. )
I wasn’t referring to the bachor that is totally or mainly ‘torahso umnoso”
And for the matter of “Bitochon” doesn’t the Talmud mandate the father should teach his son a trade…. “M’lachah kalah un’kiah” (see kidushin; 84b brochos ;24)
…… I guess our sages didn’t have enough bitochon!!
Where is the Bitachon we were taught?
Since when should we worry about parnossa,especially as a bachur.Our only thoughts should be,just learning.Any other ideas is the yaitzar harah.
Learning in lakewood u have a lot of xtra time to read and to post b-cos u r in koll learning and thet’s y ur wife is working
anon July 12, 2007 6:19 PM
“The problem with this part of your comment, not that I dont have a problem with other parts of your long tirade are… Unfortunately, buchrim in Yeshiva are told to go to Kollel and stay in learning by the same people YOU mentioned. Either Litvish or Rebbish, no difference, they say the same thing, Torah iz the besta Avodah. But when it comes to the high paying Torah jobs, only people with those last names get the good jobs. Even if they don’t deserve them.”
Can you explain me where I differ with you. I agree ‘theoretically’ torah needs to be supported by and for the right ppl in ‘reality’ you are correct with this mafia – [no diff Hasidic- Kotler what ever the name its all the same – do not support those good for nothings give it to the serious avrech YOU ARE the one’s handing it to them!] they have a slim chance.
Bochorim end up doing whatever they want, the teaching’s doesn’t implicate… (girls are a diff story) they are smart enough to make their own decisions. Do you disagree that torah is the ‘besta schoreh’ it’s just a matter for who, what and where (see Rav ;Hilchos Talmud torah)
I will tell you the core of the problem; which is, most bochorim are not ‘cut out’ to cont. learning at least ‘full day’ so instead of wasting everyone’s time and struggling with them, let them be taught a professional trade instead they end up – ke’rach m’kaan v’kerach m’kaan – NO TORAH AND NO PARNASAH especially the Chasidic yeshivos where they anyhow don’t encourage kollel as much (like Satmar) and don’t educate at all of whatsoever , they intend you should be on every Fed program available! (Or if you are better
B&H) – For what?!?
And same goes for bnei kollel there is nothing wrong if u learn a few years its just u got to have a realistic plan :
1. do you think you have potential to grow and flourish to become from the upcoming gedolei hador – posek; rosh yeshivah
2.Where do you see yourself in 10 years from now ……etc.
In most cases its not realistic, they haven’t the slightest idea- where, whatsoever … , so the sure solution is the following (whatever u have in mind for later doesn’t matter) :
the Talmud teaches us that every father has an obligation to teach his child a profession, therefore, there is nothing wrong if every Avrech will go to a night college to get a ‘degree’ – no matter what; so for WHEN the time comes (whenever it is) he should have a parnasah & profession in hand, if he cont. learning – kol hakovod BUT as long as there isn’t the pressure, knowing that he could get himself a Prof. job as of tomorrow.
And same goes for the girl : if u seriously want a husband to sit and learn the rest of his life – get a degree in like speech therapy, special Ed, etc. (not teaching – you can’t have the cake n eat it ) u will earn enough without pressure of working hours etc, if not – don’t bother, Fugheddaboudit !!
5:26, yes, go visit any jewish social service agency and see the hundreds, if not more, frum heads of families who turn to them because there is no one else, for money for FOOD, CLOTHING AND MEDICAL EXPENSES.
Re: Anonymous said…
not one of them became an apikuros from their studies.
The point is being exposed to apikursis is bad. It can affect your attitude towards mitzvah observance. Please speak to your rabbi for more explanation. This is not the forum for that discussion.
I don’t understand what the fuss is all about.
Isn’t there thousands of Yungeleit which after a few years go out and find a job?
Are people as bad off as you make it?
Is there problems of Shalom Bayis because of this?
Do you know actual stories of people not being able tro afford foof?
I know lots and lots of guys and gals who went to college and not one of them became an apikuros from their studies. What a load.
Why bash Lakewood it is the whole system from elementary school up. Lakewood is just the bottom of the funnel that all of our schools are trying to make everyone fit into. Those that can hardly read are products of our schools not Lakewood.
It is our job as parents to make sure that our children can read and write not Lakewood’s.
It is our fault as parents for raising children to expect support, houses and cars not Lakewood. Raise children by saying ‘no’ first.
Collage is not the answer, job training is and it should begin in high school or before, not after six children. Look at colleges today they are close to worthless without a masters degree and you can join a masters program after learning in an accredited Yeshiva. How anyone can recommend college for unmarried 18-25 yrs old kids is beyond me. Do you want your children to be exposed to s-x, drugs etc. on a daily basis. I for one, would not have survived, I am grateful for the years spent in yeshiva I just wish I had opportunity to get job training before I was drowning in debt.
“Anonymous said…
I still am & hope to be till 120. There is 3 sides to every story His, Hers, & the thruth.
July 12, 2007 3:11 PM
Well, by the way spelled “thruth” your spouse is probably the bread provider in your home as you have probably reached the height of your career when you got that job at the cashier in B&H I know you also verify the credit card but still…..
July 12, 2007 6:17 PM”
Wrong!!! my wife is a worse speller than me but she makes enough money that I don’t have to work. I’m an OICHEL VEINOI OISEH.
Boy do you guys go far off the topic. All the rabbonim were saying was that you should not let the women go to COLLEGE to get a CAREER. Because you can learn apikorsus. (also you can bring in more money working less hours, but that seems to be beside the point). The truth is Hashem sends parnosa, and if women did not go to college and took work in at home and stayed home with their kids, we might have better kids. Because when mom is out all day and the kids come home to an empty home, they can do what ever they want. And when they ask mom, can I go out with so and so, mom is soooo tired from a full day of work, cooking, cleaning, laundry, etc. She just shakes her head and say to herself-good I’ll get some rest. What what are those kids doing out there.
If you look through out the last 50 years which is when kollel began you will find that kollel was founded for a select few people and not the yeshivos as a whole, and since then the whole kollel concept became misconscrewed (LITERALLY).
Everytime you hear some Rabbi or Rosh yeshiva shout about staying in kollel its only coming from Rabbis or from people that everything for them is paid for (USUALLY BY PUBLIC MONEY and if not then by some some rich uncle or friend) . This stuff is never spewed by someone who struggles to put food on the table . If you dont believe this then do your home work.
Reb malkiel Kotler has everything paid for, has free tuition . . Same goes for most roshey yeshivos today, including smaller yeshivos too.
To give you an idea of how far and ludicrous the situation has become, consider my experience. I am a so called “Baal Tshuva” After just a few weeks in my first BT yeshiva, where I was learning alef beis, the rosh yeshiva of that institution told me , and everyone else who was there, over and over again, that we should abandon all plans for a career (I was a graduate of an Ivy League college) and learn full time. We were supposed to tell our parents, not frum or learned people, that they now had a lifetime obligation to support us. I bought into this hook, line, and sinker because the rosh yeshiva emphasized it. I thought it was “Jewish law” that in our generation all men were to sit and learn and be supported by their families. Well, you can imagine my parent’s attitude when I informed them of this. Obviously, it was absurd. I am not Rabbi Akiva, and I don’t think anyone else in that BT yeshiva was either. Of course, after “sitting and learning” for a year or so, the rosh yeshiva started putting pressure on me to get money from my family. I was too far gone into the new BT mode of thinking to realize what was really going on.
Anon,12:17
What world do you live in? Do you pay tuition for 7-8 kids, plus a day camp in the city for at least $1,500 a kid, plus rent even if you don’t have a house, plus food, doctors, dentists, braces and clothes? You need at least 6 figues if you’re on the books, so, yes, you don’t have to own a BMW in order for your wife to have to work.
what is going on today is absurd and unprecedented
everuy boy wants to get supported and supposedly learn for a minimum of ten years we are bringing up a generation of lazy parasites who have no interest in working or getting anytype of education or vocation
all the roshei yeshivas who advocate this will have to answer for this
in europe it was not like this and thats why europe produced gedolim and america produces bulls—ters
“Unfortunately current Jewish communities do not adequately respect nor compensate our learning, and thus our wives are forced, by no will of their own (or ours), to enter the work force.”
I have full respect for those who choose to sit and learn full time while their wives work to support them. It is not, however, the responsibility of the klal to support everyone who decides that he wants to sit and learn full time.
The concept of Yissochar and Zevulun is that Zevulun finds someone who he wishes to support, and offers to support him in his learning. I have never seen it anywhere that Yissochar is supposed to go to Zevulun and say “I want to sit and learn full time, you have to support me”
“the learning that my colleagues and I do on a daily basis provides a service to the greater Jewish community in the form of maintaining a modicum of spiritual & religious sanctity within the Jewish world”
This is ludicrous and insulting. Are men who work bringing less kedusha into the world throughout the day while he is working and at the same time involved in all the halachos involved in working? They are very complicated halachos which are no less important than the few masechtos which are learned in kollelim over and over again on a cycle.
Yes, we need people learning full time, we also need those working full time. However, the decision to learn full time should not be made by the person who is learning, it should be made by an objective party as to who will benefit the klal most in each area.
My husband and I both work full time, out of necessity. We rent an apartment which is just large enough for our family now, I don’t know where we will put the next child. We own 2 cars, a necessity for our jobs. One is 12 years old and literally falling apart, but still runs, and the other we just bought used when we were putting more money into our 14 year old car each month than a car payment would cost.
I recently bought a new dress for pesach, the first new dress I have purchased in 5 years. I own 1 shaitel which I bought 3 years ago. For my children, I shop in kmart and second hand stores and take hand-me downs from anyone I can. For my oldest girl I am forced to buy at frum stores, but wait only for the sales and buy last season’s clothing. Shoes are from payless.
We try to put something nice on the table for shabbos and have meat every few weeks, but generally it is chicken. We eat a lot of pasta, tuna and hot dogs during the week.
We get no tuition breaks, no breaks on camp and do not qualify for any government programs. We do not have rich parents who can afford to supplement our income in any way. The first and last vacation we ever took was 4 years ago, for 2 days, a gift from my husband’s parents.
In today’s society, money does not stretch very far. It is often a necessity for both parents to work just to make ends meet.
1:45, I agree with you wholeheartedly. B”H I have a husband who helps out a lot, but during the hours he is not working he really needs to be learning as his learning time is very limited. I cannot tell you how many times I have cried myself to sleep bec. I am not able to be the mother I want to be. I think that a woman’s place is at home with her kids and ideally every man should be learning full time, but unfortunately Moshiach is not here yet and we have to live in the world the way it is now.
2:17, honestly, I don’t know how people afford these things. What I do know is that through my work I see many stay at home moms driving up in fancy cars, talking about the homes they bought, matching clothes for all the kids and vacationing in the mountains every summer. At the same time, most of them somehow have medicaid, wic, food stamps and are at least on the list for section 8. I honestly don’t believe that my children would be better off with a mother who is at home through sheker.
Listen up clowns. If you would stop buying houses for 600,000 and up when you do not have the money for it to begin with, and when you don’t spend 8,000 on a bungalow that looks like from my uncle Harry days in the wilderness you won’t have to have your wife work.
The reason why you need three jobs today is because you have to keep up with Mr and Mrs. Jones
Whatever happened to making a kiddush with cake , soda AND MAYBE potaoe kugel?
Oh NO! All you fine shmeckers have to have the latest BMW in your driveway with a lease of 400.00 a month and have the most expensive and tightest dress on the market with stupid letterings on the back that says something I can’t write on this web page.
As long as everyone is losing most of their marbles your gonna need three wives and 6 more jobs just to hopefully make it.
LEAR TO LIVE WITH LESS AND THROW OUT THE WORD EXPECTATIONS FROM YOUR VOCABULARY.
It’s 11:45 p.m., and I’ll be cooking for another few hours. Tomorrow I’ll get up around 6 a.m. to get into work in a timely manner, where I will spend the day until approximately 3 p.m.
Then I’ll try to run a few errands, do some laundry, go to the bank, dry cleaner, pharmacy, etc., before Shabbos.
After Shabbos will be loads of dishes and general cleaning — as well as plenty of laundry to prepare for the Nine Days. Sunday will be spent shopping and cooking for the upcoming week and making the house presentable for my husband’s shiur. Monday, of course, is back to work. And I haven’t even mentioned my five children, k’ah . . .
It’s a typical week, like that of many, many Jewish women.
Forget about kollel versus work. Very, very few men can earn enough to support a large family while living in an appropriate Jewish neighborhood.
Forget about blaming materialism. It’s a societal problem — not one that single families can take on by themselves. I grew up in a very frugal environment, and I send my children to the least affluence-dominated school in my area, but imagine the humiliation of receiving a call from the principal with a request to please dress your child “more like her classmates on Rosh Chodesh”? The teachers themselves look like models from an alternate universe in which Anna Wintour was a Bais Yaakov girl.
Forget the concept of a “career women”. What is a “career”, anyway? A job you’ve actually prepared yourself to perform? A job you take seriously? Taking time to *think* about the kind of work you intend to do?
If anyone — a Rosh Yeshiva, a community leader, or simply a concerned husband & father — wants to improve the situation, here are some steps:
1. HELP your wife. She will have far more energy to do the kind of nurturing we *say* we value if she isn’t working a full second shift as a laundress, busboy, and maid at home.
2. KNOW THE COST of the things that come into your home. When I was newly married, my husband suggested that I ask his rosh yeshiva’s wife for clothes shopping tips. When I explained to him that her outfits cost as much as $300 each, he found himself a different rebbe!
3. Have RACHMANES on women who are proudly struggling — where the house isn’t so tidy, the children don’t always have exactly the supplies they need, or the laundry doesn’t get done so promptly. It’s hard to be the perfect balabusta when you’re working a full-time job elsewhere.
4. ACKNOWLEDGE THE LIE that many working frum women live. If we admit that we would prefer to stay home, we risk damaging our husbands’ dignity. No one wants to pubilcize that her husband is unable to earn enough to support the family. So we make excuses: “Oh, it’s only for tuition” when it’s really for food and shelter. “My working allows us to go on vacation” — yeah, we went to a cousin’s chassunah two years ago. Exert a little skepticism, please; an eishes chayil places her husband’s feelings over presenting you with a clear picture of her finances.
How many women will go to sleep tonight with tears of exhaustion and frustration stinging their eyes? And how many men will wonder why their wives are so moody and tense? I believe with all my heart that future generations will look back on our times and cry for the yoke of responsibility and labor that so many Jewish women bear today . . . and for the harshness with which they are judged.
Once again, the blame is to be put upon the so called Roshei Yeshiva who distort reality by pushing Kollel and marrying rich. Thanks.
to learning in Lakewood.I sure hope your letter was written in jest because the only thing absurd about your kollel check is that you are getting one at all. What are you doing home at 10:56 AM answering a blog. Even worse how does the mosed giving you this check then have the chutzpah to shnor money from hard working ballai battim to pay for you to stay home.
by the way lakewooder what time did your wife have to wake up to prepare breakfast lunch and supper for you to eat while she went off to work. Did she also have time to make 5 loads of laundry. take the 3 toddlers to play group, the 3 other kids to day camp and set the alarm for 9:30 to wake you up in time to make zman tefillah.
lastly kollelnick, your shver who has to support a faker like yourself was probably at the 6AM
daf, davened, and put in a few hours of work before you turned over for another few hours of sleep. You and many like you should be ashamed of yourselves for being a shame to klal yisroel.
This is very entertaining to read. The truth is, if we lived in a society where not every boy was “pushed” to sit and learn, and only those who really are serious would be learning, than everyone in the community would be able to support this real Torah because every “shver” would not be supporting his own kids.(unless they were from the serious ones 🙂 In such a case, the real serious kollel families would be supported by the community and then their wives would be able to stay home and raise the children as well.
But that’s too logical so it’s never going to happen.
Thank G-D for Food Stamps and Welfare.
Dear Learning in Lakewood,
What are so meny kollel yungerlit doing on the internet bloging i think rabbi matzger is right
Dear Learning in Lakewood,
Is is already bein hazmanim in Lakewood? What are you doing on the internet? Why aren’t you at morning seder at 10:56 in the morning?
I feel for your wife who is hard at work. She thinks that you are learning, while you are on the internet
WHY IS IT?
That if your name happens to be Halberstam; Teitlbaum; Hager;Alter, etc. (whatever Rebisha descendent – you name them) there is no one yelling — go GET a job! Isn’t the torah just as precious and CHOSHOV’eH ‘cause’ – as supporting those good for nothings .???!
The problem with this part of your comment, not that I dont have a problem with other parts of your long tirade are… Unfortunately, buchrim in Yeshiva are told to go to Kollel and stay in learning by the same people YOU mentioned. Either Litvish or Rebbish, no difference, they say the same thing, Torah iz the besta Avodah. But when it comes to the high paying Torah jobs, only people with those last names get the good jobs. Even if they don’t deserve them. By that time you have a boy who has been in Kollel for 10 years, has 6 -10 kids, and if he is lucky can add more than single digits and write English. What is he going to do besides staying in Lakewood and learning? My guess is he will be on the internet complaining about his wife and his living conditions.
Anonymous said…
I still am & hope to be till 120. There is 3 sides to every story His, Hers, & the thruth.
July 12, 2007 3:11 PM
Well, by the way spelled “thruth” your spouse is probably the bread provider in your home as you have probably reached the height of your career when you got that job at the cashier in B&H I know you also verify the credit card but still…..
As I read and browse through these postings I can’t help but wonder how confused and out of touch ppl could be – each in a total opposite direction – here are the categories :
1. One claims – no one should go to kollel – so mothers could stay home
2. The other one – all the mothers have to go to work even if your husband works f/t in order to let ends meet
3. You need to support all the Bnei Torah – in any matter.
4. There is no such thing as “Bnei Torah” – no one learns these days .
For the truth in the matter, there is some truth in all of them – on the other hand, no one is right:
-2- Before u claim that your wife MUST work – stop and think what u REALLY working for? what are your priorities’? ; for in most cases it’s NOT for necessities i.e. “bread and butter” – its mostly for ‘luxuries’ [which has become part of our life] : SUVs , buying ‘million dollar houses’ (meaning any house down BP) , summer houses, lux. Vacations, trips, fancy simchas, (which has also become part of our life-style) dresses, etc. u do your own calculations, if you would only throw some of these out, you will realize that u have more than enough! (in most cases)
-1-4. Whom do you ask your SHAILOS? [if you ask at all ?!] Where do you think our next generation of RABONIM; MORAH HoRah’s and ROSH YESHIVAH’S will come from??
The internet, blog !?
In other words u want to proclaim a decree of the YOVANIM–Greeks of foreclosing all the kollelim
Hallelujah!!!
It is as If I would to tell you that most students of the colleges don’t spend their time learning (which IS true) – I think we should close them all down !!!
3-4. yes, not all are total serious learners (especially the newly weds) the solution : get rid of them and establish kollelim for the serious ones – let every one go through a systematic test in order to be a member of kollel , thus, you will have more money available for those that could and should deserve & use it, – and less discrepancies there AND better products.
At last –
WHY IS IT —-
their own will, gladly – to have part in her hubs Torah) it becomes a whole to-do : she belongs 
home …..etc? Whereas – she works cause of the EXTRAS (read 1-4) – everything is fine ; no problem whatsoever !?
when someones wife works because her husband learns (most cases
Isn’t someone’s torah AS precious and enough reason than your extravaganzas??
WHY-
is there no claim on the “fakers” in the ‘business world’ who cheat on anything they can get their hands on— for any extra dollar (I’ve seen enough – in the course of my career- CPA)?!?
WHY IS IT?
That if your name happens to be Halberstam; Teitlbaum; Hager;Alter, etc. (whatever Rebisha descendent – you name them) there is no one yelling — go GET a job! Isn’t the torah just as precious and CHOSHOV’eH ‘cause’ – as supporting those good for nothings .???!
It just proves (–the double standards) the point what the Talmud teaches us – to what extent of (even subconscious!) hatred exists of an AM HaAretz towards a Talmud CHOCHOM !
Its nothing else !
Orthodox women dont usually work–where is that info from?
“Have your cake and eat it”, is a slogan we are all trying to emulate.
Lakewood lerner:
As a working guy, who has to struggle myself, I do agree with you that the community should support those who are truely learning, those who are likley to be the next rabbonim, roshei yeshivos, dayanim, etc. Think of it as an investment on the part of the klal.
However, I think it would be quite a stretch to say that the klal should support all of lakewood kollel with a fair salary (not intended to mean anything about lakewood per say, juast as an example of a large kollel). Are all of them going to be the next roshei yeshivos. There is a reason why kollels offer a low salaray. When you have the standard being to go to kollel, it become unsustainable.
And by they way, no offense to you, but if you were truley emmesdik about your learning, on the road to be the next gadol hador, etc., what are you doing on the internet? (Not that I have a problem with the internet, just if you’re learning full time, you have no business there).
Calm down everyone! Rav Metzger did not vent against women who work to support their family. (whether they had a kollel houshold or not) He only meant to point out that we need the woman to raise our children b’derech hatora. That the success of B’nei Yisroel’s longevity (even among 70 wolves) is through the many sacrifices that woman undertake in order to raise children that will respect the torah and its laws.
Now, if one’s circumstances, such as putting food on the table etc., doesn’t allow them to stay at home and focus on this most important task, they should get a job and work. Its the ‘Career Woman’ the one that chooses to get the job not because of her circumstances, she doesn’t need the money. Her only reason for going out into the business world is for a career. So that she may title herself a lawer, Doctor etc. What the rav wanted to point out was that person ‘forgot’ her true purpose on this planet.
I also would like to point out that one should think twice before they ‘throw’ their slurs on a rav. This rav has semicha (which takes years of study to receive) and is knowledgeable on all aspect of torah (shas bavli, yerushalmi etc). While you may inquire as to why he may have arrived at this conclusion, to negate it and belittle it as if a modern ‘rabbi’, those frauds who know no more about jewish law than the most ignorant said these things is wrong.
To anonymous 3:01….
Your comment, “Ask anyone who was ONCE married…” announces loud and clear that you have had a failed marriage.
Don’t make a naive, biased and unsupported opinion based on your experience with you ex-wife.
From your entire post, I would venture to say that your wife was an extremely smart, intelligent woman who was well compensated for her work and you were overshadowed by her success. Therefore, your insecurities and complexes caused your marriage to dissolve.
I think your ex-wife was lucky to get rid of a narrow-minded man like you.
hey, learning in lakewood
July 12, 2007 10:56 AM
What r u duing at home at this time ? if u learn in kolel….
To anonymous 3:01…
You sound like an insecure male masochist with an overpampered ego. If you respect and treat your wife as an equal partner in your marriage and you see the family as one unit not two – so that the underlying attitude is not one where you consider it “yours” or “her” money but “our” money and “our” bills AND you equally contribute to the relationship, albeit in different ways, you will not have a problem about who brings more money.
That does not make a woman a witch. What makes a woman a witch, is that you disregard all the work she does in the home as trivial and silly, and you feel you deserve honor and respect for bringing home the money.
Most of all, it’s your insecurity in yourself, where you need to validate your existence as the “HEAD” of the house by the size of the paycheck that causes you to feel threatened by a woman who earns more.
“Ask anyone who was once married to one of those career women especially when they end up bringing in the bigger salary! Woe to that husband…..”
I still am & hope to be till 120. There is 3 sides to every story His, Hers, & the thruth.
nobody says women can’t work to ease the burden only that women shouldn’t go for careers as was proven many times over when a lady has a career her ego climbs tremendously and they turn in to a true witch! Ask anyone who was once married to one of those career women especially when they end up bringing in the bigger salary! Woe to that husband…..
yes kolel learners can find it difficult, however there are far more middle class earners that barely survive and the number one reason is tuition, tuition, tuition
Although the “Chief Rabbi” of the zionists often gets things wrong, on this issue I must applaud him for having the courage of saying what we all think and know in our hearts.
I very much agree that the bochurim should have a profession before they get married so they can earn a decent living and not just take any job at ten dollars an hour since they have a baby within a year and need money
With 4 kids in yeshiva and a whopping $40,000 per year tuition bill, what are my options??
“Unfortunately current Jewish communities do not adequately respect nor compensate our learning, and thus our wives are forced, by no will of their own (or ours), to enter the work force”
We would support you completely so your wife could raise the family if you would become a Dayan, Rosh Yeshiva or anything that would give back service to the community. Unfortunatly there are thousands of lazy bums sitting supposedly learning. You chose this lifestyle remember what’s written “pas bamelech toichal etc” not two cars fancy clothing “support me”
כל כבודה בת מלך פנומה
According to Chazal a woman’s obligation is to stay home period.
the father has to bring parnosa, and the mother has to stay home raise the children!
אל תטוש תורת אמך
עמוני ולא עמונית שאין דרכו של אשה לצאת
אפילו צו טוהן מצוות ווי צו געבן צו עסן פאר יודשע קינדער
A Woman job is to stay home, and to build a carrer.
Very logical. a woman should work to support the parasite husband in the kollel but not advance in the world enough to learn how bad her situation really is.
hey, learning in lakewood
I’ve never seen such arrogance to say that the community should compensate you for your learning… you have such chutzpah…
Why don’t you get a job and stop this bs of your wife and everyone else doing things for you? Are you so much of a masmid and learn l’shem shomayim as you claim? I doubt it very much… If you were so ehrlich, you would get a job and help your wife instead of relying on other people to do things for you…. there is a time for learning and a time for parnassah… go get one otherwise your gonna get a get in the end….
Unfortunately current Jewish communities do not adequately respect nor compensate our learning, and thus our wives are forced, by no will of their own (or ours), to enter the work force.
How dare you? No respect? Are you out of your mind? Do you know how much it costs just to wake up in the morning these days? Most working families have 2 people working and still live hand to mouth. You remind me of the guy who said “It’s time to get rid of the Cherem D’Rabeinu Gershom of only allowing one wife, because it’s impossible to live with only one working wife”.
If man would do their job and GET a job to support their wives and families instead of thinking like an 18 year old idealistic bochur who is going to sit and learn his whole life. What is a women to do when her father runs out of money because he had to support his other 6 daughters whose husbands are also “learning”. Who is suppose to pay for tuition, food, clothes, mortgage, taxes, etc. It ends up being on us poor wives, not only do we work full time, but when we get home we have to make dinner, do homework with 6 kids, get the toddler and infant bathed and to bed, besides for the laundry and the dishes from the breakfast and lunch the husband ate while he was “sitting and learning”. But he didn’t have time to do because he had to be back at the Yeshiva for the Rosh’s shuir and after maariv he stuck around for the night sader (shmooze with the guys)!
The Bais Yaakov/Yeshiva World have us all so brain washed that this is the way things should be done. But Rabbi Metzger is right, we should not be bothered with careers outside the house, we should be there for our children, so tell the men to get of the “bank” and get a job or “nuch besser” go to college before your married and have a career/profession so your wife can stay home and enjoy her children instead of resenting you and them. and then you can pay tuition instead of begging for scholarship and put food on the table and clothes on their backs!
Learning in Lakewood said…
I am certain this was sarcasm on your part. Maybe 1 out every 20 men learning in Kollel are somewhat serious. All the others are lazy fakers.
I work full time, and without my wife working also, we would not be able to pay our bills especially our Yeshiva tuition Bill. Does he want us to send our kids to public school? or just not be frum all together, it would be much cheaper to buy treif food and eat at McDonalds
If my wife is not supposed to work who will support our family, my Kollel check alone is absurdly insufficient. I believe Yeshiva’s should pay more for full time learning, this will enable our learning to go undisturbed and allow our wives to maintain the house/children.
More so, the learning that my colleagues and I do on a daily basis provides a service to the greater Jewish community in the form of maintaining a modicum of spiritual & religious sanctity within the Jewish world. That being said, it is incumbent upon the greater Jewish world to acknowledge our efforts and achievements, and compensate our learning accordingly.
Rabbi Metzger is indeed correct in stating that women should not be pre-occupied with a career, and in an optimal world [where learning in Kollel was acknowledged and respected] that would indeed be the case. Unfortunately current Jewish communities do not adequately respect nor compensate our learning, and thus our wives are forced, by no will of their own (or ours), to enter the work force.
How do they define “careers”?