    ‘August 13 Pinned News’
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Brooklyn, NY – Retreating to the Catskills in upstate New York during the summer months has become a steady routine among Haredi Jews. Haredi strongholds such as Borough Park and Williamsburg empty of women and kids for eight weeks straight. On the weekends, when the men join their families, these enclaves are all but ghost towns.
But for many families, the summer trend of renting a place in a bungalow colony is such a financial stretch that a summer vacation can feel more like a burden than anything else. Just how much trouble it can be was brought to light this summer, when an Haredi organization distributed a booklet on how to deal with summer expenses.
The pamphlet, put out by Keren Ezer LeMishpachot Hanitzrachim, a Williamsburg nonprofit haredi group that offers financial help and budgeting advice, was distributed to 20,000 haredi families just before the summer season began.
“We realized that the Catskills was causing big problems,” said a source close to Keren Ezer. “We didn’t tell people not to go. The only thing we pointed out was [that] you’ve got to know what your budget is and how much you have saved for the summer.”
Read extended article [jpost]
When summer vacation is over maybe it is time to research more affordable options. I like the one comment about vacationing every other year. Seems this would be easier on an already strained budget.
Know anyone out of state? Maybe have them stay at your house for an inexpensive way to see NY and you stay at their home.
Takes a bit of planning but will allow for a variety in vacationing. A chance to explore the world so to speak.
Rent an RV and travel for the summer.
When my family was returning from 3 years in Germany, we picked up a car in South Carolina and drove to Texas stopping to see battleships, and ports along the route. Very enjoyable.
HOW I SPENT MY SUMMER
I am reading this blog as an outsider, an observer. The quibbling amazes me. You see, my parents left Brooklyn in the 60s for Monsey, and Monsey in the 70s for Israel. These issues don’t exist here. When we want some fresh air, as we did last Friday, we hopped into the car and drove out to a holy site: we walked alongside and explored the ruins of Shiloh, where the Mishkan rested for 367 (iirc) years and the site of the shul where Channa wept. We then continued to breath the fresh air of the holy community of Ofra, then on to Yerushalayim Ir HaKodesh, where we ascented Har HaZofim to Beit HaChoshen, where we viewed the site of Kodesh HaKodashim, where the Schina hovered. We did not pass any bungalow colonies on the way and we did not collect anything but valuable memories. We don’t envy the Goldbergs. The day cost us, besides gas, around $10 for seven people – Shiloh charges an entry fee.
Now, how did YOU spend YOUR summer???
TO: August 13, 2007 11:43 PM
and everyone else –
Why not move to a nice big Jewish country home in Eretz HaKodesh!?
After all, you will be Jews in a Jewish neighborhood.
After all, about 5000 Jews just moved to their new homes in Eretz HaKodesh, from England, Canada and the USofA this summer.
And one does not have to be political to live in Eretz HaKodesh.
After all, it is where the Abishter watches over from the beginning of the year to the end of the year.
Sure is a better landlord than we have here.
Since when do I live in an “ENCLAVE”?
I thought I lived in New York!
Anony 11:06-
This is anony 10:19
Thank you for you eloquent answer. I am not a bungalow vacationer and am appreciative of your clarification for me and the rest of us.
For those of you who can’t go and stay in Brooklyn, I commend you for this difficult test.
I used to go to the bungalows every summer. I thought that i couldn’t live without it- that it is better for the kids- etc…
Then one summer we couldn’t afford to go. I remember being TERRIFIED at the idea of staying home. I was in for a pleasant surprise. Not only did we survive the summer, we did small, inexpensive day drips (with 1 larger Herseypark trip) and in fact the summer went by quickly.
Now i can’t imagine going back to that life – small bungalows, rain, packing, unpacking etc…
These comments are getting pretty heated. I think that there have been valid points made, but, overall, everyone’s situation is, in fact, different.
For people who make good money no matter where they are, and have kids who need that fresh air, the country summer is, in theory, a nice option. They can afford it, and it’s healthy to get out of NYC.
I would say, though, that it’s in no way ideal for a husband and wife to be separated for 75% of the summer, as is the case with the “Monday to Friday alone in the city/weekends in the bungalow with the family” thing.
As far as judging people vis a vis money, I think the poster who commented that we can’t know another person’s needs, is correct. That doesn’t mean people should live outside their means. But people do need to get away for at least a little bit.
As far as how many kids, etc., I think that’s a very personally specific issue that is best discussed with a Rov and not generalized in a public forum.
Again, people who wish summer were longer are not necessarily insensitive to their husbands. Maybe their husbands are in full agreement and they have the money for a 3 month summer.
Let’s be friends, in other words, and wish each other the best, instead of cursing, G-d forbid, at a fellow Jew for a perceived wrong which may not even be there.
May Hashem bless his whole nation with happy and healthy families and redeem us all, speedily in our days, Amein.
have news for you am not a house wife. i am a husband who has a wife and kids and it would help our suffering chinuch system to have the kids airout a little longer
11:06, as someone who can’t afford to go away, I appreciate your sensitive comments about insensitive comments thrown my way all the time: you’re not going away at all this summer? How come you don’t go to the country? Why don’t you take a bungalow for a few weeks? etc., etc., ad nauseum.
Anonymous August 14, 2007 1:20 PM,
Let me guess, you’re a housewife who lets her husband worry about money? Way to appreciate your husbands hard work, add another month to the country. I have a special word for you that starts with a B, but I don’t want to use such language, so use your imagination.
the summer is too short we must start going to the country right after shevous. the school year is to long the kids are overworked.
and the biggest revenge on the nazis yimach shimom is to have a dozen kids per family if not more
keep on having kids and see lots of nachas we all know hashem does
happy I agree with you dont question others cause you dont like to be questioned either how you spend your money.
to the one that said if you cant provide for them dont have them. are you drinking some coolaid first mitzvah in the torah pirya vribya let hashem do the worrying how to provide you have to do hishtadlus and family planning? ah mentch tracht in gut lacht!!
to the smart comment Shoite User Le’rocham Ouluv” Translation: Do not pity the fool. Relying on miracles is silly. You have to do the right thing are you telling us that you understand better then hashem how to run this world?
to the talmiud chuchem who said this ‘This whole summer business is against the torah. First and foremost, the kids should be in school till Rosh Chodesh Av and be back by RC Ellul. Second husbands and wives should be together all week and kids should have both parents around all week.’
which yeshivah did you learn?
Bottom line its a great thing to go on vacation the kids blossom in the country they run around baruch hashem with out any worries in the world. we are living in a society with enough problems let them enjoy themselvs a little.
I suggest that we start the summer right after shavuos 2 months out of 12 is too short the winter is long enough the kids need it and so do the adults every one needs a break from reality
i used to go to the country every other year or so the last time i went was 4 years ago this year i decided not to go because i shouldn’t have to invite all country shcheinim to the wedding we are having december , (one of the new MUST TO DO…)
The poster who warned about “not even one frum family on the block” must be thinking of “out of town” in 1950. Detroit, Chicago, Philadelphia, Miami, Los Angeles, et. al., offer virtually everything found in Brooklyn. Granted, maybe there are only ten restaurants rather than 200 — but how many do you really eat at, anyway? More recently, Atlanta, Milwaukee, Dallas, and others offer incredible home values and increasing choices in day schools and yeshivas.
This may be true for the litveshe/yeshivishe oilam but not for the chasideshe oilam. (Do these city’s mosdos teach in yiddish? at what age are the girls expected to dress as ‘older’ girls? etc).
“Of course famalis are entitled to vacations.”
You are not “entitled” to things you can’t pay for yourself.
At August 14, 2007 10:19 AM , Anonymous said…
This whole bungalow colony concept sounds so ‘Keeping up with the Goldbergs’ to me. Is this an ego thing? Are you thinking that if you don’t show up at the bungalow one summer that the people will wonder about your finances? If you can’t afford it, why are you going? It’s NOT YOUR money to spend!
*********************
I can B’H easily afford the country, however, my wife doesn’t like it and the kids don’t seem to mind either. (Don’t worry; I’m not completely off the hook. The weekend getaways end up costing almost as much…) I can’t tell you how many people approach me every summer “you’re not going to the country? How come? Is your wife giving birth, are you moving?” Imagine how someone who can’t afford it feels when confronted with these questions? I’m not saying that justifies spending someone else’s money, I’m just pointing out how everyone is pressured to go to the country these days. It’s the same way everything else works in our community, you need to have everything your neighbor does, or else you feel lesser.
I think it can all be explained very simply. Its human’s nature to want what your neighbor has hence its sin being part of the Ten Commandments: “You shall not covet your neighbour’s house; you shall not covet your neighbour’s wife, or male or female slave, or ox, or donkey, or anything that belongs to your neighbour.” In most areas of the world rich people live in rich areas, middle class live in middle class areas, and the poor live in the poor neighborhoods. That’s not the case with the Chassidishe community. Rich, middle class, poor, we all need the same Yeshivas, Talmud Torah’s, Beis Medrushim, etc. So the poor end up being jealous of the middle class and the rich, and the middle class are jealous of the rich. The poor and middle class are trying to make the same type of weddings as the rich, wear the same type of cloths, drive the same cars, etc. There’s nothing wrong with us, we’re humans, and humans have egos, jealousy, and lots of other bad behaviors that we’re naturally born with. The only solution I can think of is for all of us to work on our middus. We need to teach our kids from when they are little that you don’t need to have everything your neighbor has, and that materialistic stuff is not what makes people happy. I’m guilty of the same problem. My kids constantly pressure me into buying things their neighbor has, and unfortunately they win most of the time.
Kids need a place to play outside, especially in the summer. Period. Most families look for either a backyard and/or nearby parks when they purchase a home.
The first time I visited Brooklyn, I was shocked that people lived this way — no wonder they feel they have to escape to “the country”.
The poster who warned about “not even one frum family on the block” must be thinking of “out of town” in 1950. Detroit, Chicago, Philadelphia, Miami, Los Angeles, et. al., offer virtually everything found in Brooklyn. Granted, maybe there are only ten restaurants rather than 200 — but how many do you really eat at, anyway? More recently, Atlanta, Milwaukee, Dallas, and others offer incredible home values and increasing choices in day schools and yeshivas.
Brooklyn is like the old joke, “I like to visit, but I wouldn’t want to live there”.
There is nothing wrong wih big families. Every child is an infinite brocha. The problem is that the chareidi/chassidishe community is encouraged not to become educated, and not to work as professionals.
You must have emunah and you must believe that with every child comes additional blessings. But there has to be much more hishtadlus. There is no excuse for children to be denied an education and the chance to support a family as well as the greater community withoutout government support.
Also, as difficult as it is to fathem, the chareidi/chassidishe communities must seek to live elsewhere besides on top of one another in Brooklyn. There is no excuse for the chronic overcrowding and oppressive expense of living is such a condensed, overpriced environment.
If the mentality would shift to self-support and greater diversity in residential choices the chadishe/chareidi communities would avoid many of the problems it faces today.
Instead of rabbonim having to react to every crisis that comes along, they should be anticipating the possible problems that may come along and proactively seeking ways to avoid them.
This whole bungalow colony concept sounds so ‘Keeping up with the Goldbergs’ to me. Is this an ego thing? Are you thinking that if you don’t show up at the bungalow one summer that the people will wonder about your finances? If you can’t afford it, why are you going? It’s NOT YOUR money to spend!
First of all, what is wrong with staying in the city and entertaining your own children after they are at camp? Don’t you want to spend quality time with them? You had them.
Second, if you can’t afford it, why are you having fun at the expense of my hard earned dollars which subsidise your life?
This whole summer business is against the torah. First and foremost, the kids should be in school till Rosh Chodesh Av and be back by RC Ellul. Second husbands and wives should be together all week and kids should have both parents around all week.
Gambing is comming to the Castkills so properties are worth more. Am Yisroel should cash out, live propoerly and bring Moshiach
Of course famalis are entitled to vacations. Maybe it is time to revisit what schools all over the country are charging for tuition. Add on to that if your child(ren) need tutors to help them, and you are talking about a financial strain that will break many famalies. Every day we talk about tuition being too dificult, but know one does a thing about it!
I am all for an affordable community rent prices are getting out of hand
9:36
I used to work with gentiles who were struggling with one child.
If all of us waited till we had
enough to support the future children, you probably would’nt be here.
It seems to me that you have Emunah issues. Perhaps you need to speak with someone. Chabad.org has an Ask the Rabbi section.
THE PROBLEM IS NOT THE CATSKILLS THEIR IS ONE BIG PROBLEM CALLED
BROOKLYN WHY DO WE HAVE TO LIVE IN ONE OF THE MOST EXPENSIVE CITYS ON EARTH IF YOU CAN AFFORD TO LIVE IN BROOKLYN WHERE YOU PAY SKY HIGH FOR AN APT. ON THE 6TH FLOOR YOU MUST BE ABLE TO AFFORD
A BUNG. ITS TIME TO UNITE AND CREATE THE BETH SHEMESH OF AMERICA
THERE IS PLEANTY OF OPTIONS WHERE
HOUSING AND EVREYTING ELES IS A LOT MORE AFFOREDABLE THEN BROOKLYN AND MONSEY AND THE HOUSES ARE MUCH BIGGER AND BETTER PLUS YOU HAVE YARDS BACK AND FRONT SO YOU DONT NEED A BUNG. TO BEGIN WITH. ITS TIME TO UNITE FOR NEW AND BETTER
HEIMESHE COMMUNITY
ANON 936
You sound like a lamdan but its realy am haratzos!!!
Tomim teheye im hashem elokecha You are not supposed to doresh asidos!!
You can plan financially all you want with you 2 or 3 children but you do not what the future will bring. Rabbos machshovos blev Ish..A mentch tracht un G-t lacht!! Love multiplies with children Does not get divided!!!
The same person who can give attention to two will do the same efforts a 10 or 12. A two year old is different than a 12 year old etc and is different than a 22 year old child.
Adom l’amal yuled man was made to work… life is not nec easy but hazorim bdimah brina yiktzoru and the rewards are immense.
Practically, you try to do your honest best and yeshuas hashem will be there. Yes I go to work, and yes I learn, but also on my agenda is to watch the kids in the evening and talk to the older ones during my work/learning day etc… and get them off in the morning (youngest is 7) and I am the weakest half (the husband!)on the home front!!
my friend has a winterized summer home, 2 hours from monticello, near a pizza shop near shopping , near all accomodations…………. called BROOKLYN !!!
The same Bashefer who provides for two kids, provides for as many as he gives us.
August 13, 2007 8:56 PM
Shoite User Le’rocham Ouluv” Translation: Do not pity the fool. Relying on miracles is silly. You have to do the right thing and then pray to Hashem that whatever it is you’re doing works out. Having endless amount of kids and then say “Hashem will send me money to support them” is relying on miracles, especially when you know your salary won’t cover them. But no, let’s not address this issue; let’s rather talk about Chassunah takunas, bungalows, summer homes, etc. If this community had a little bit responsibility when it comes to family planning, most of us would be able to afford bungalow and marrying our kids. And our kids would grow up a lot happier and with much more confidence. Oh, and maybe we wouldn’t have to tech our kids to apply for food stamps, Medicaid, and welfare to survive.
Buy a nice house in Cleveland, Detroit, Denver with 5 bedrooms for under 300k and with a big, beautiful backyard. (Or Israel.) Problem solved.
Ok, so that may not work for everyone, but I agree with previous posters who talked about the need for financial education for yeshiva kids. Unfortunately, it doesn’t exist and guys (and girls) getting married at 23 think that they can skip steps to afford to live the same lifestyle their parents have at age 45. They want to live right away in the Five Towns or Flatbush but don’t realize their parents started out living in a basement apartment for a few years.
Also, I have to wonder–there are a gazillion Jewish organizations out there, and yet the basic issues of affordable tuition and camp are not being addressed. My parents were middle class, did not take any vacations (we went to the country only one summer because my mother was going out of her mind) and never bought new cars, etc. etc. yet still managed to send me and my siblings to yeshiva and some of us to camp. They sacrificed though, and I have no idea how I am going to be able to afford this. There are literally millions being spent on education programs for “kiruv” and while I have no qualms with these great organizations I literally am clueless how your average family without hedge fund parents is supposed to survive with tuition, etc.
The same Bashefer who provides for two kids, provides for as many as he gives us.
As for growing up in a large family, there is no greater gift to your child than siblings.
Are you saying it’s not easier to have a close relationship with two kids than it is with 12? Come on now! Try and remember the times when you only had two kids. You didn’t spend more time with them then?
How many parent with families of 2 do you know who have a close relationship with their 2 kids?
Anonymous said…
It’s a problem that we have way too many kids? Please Hashem, send us more.
August 13, 2007 7:13 PM
You can hardly support the ones you already have and you’re asking for more? Even those of us who can afford to support their kids financially, emotionally it’s almost impossible. A father of five or six kids, who works 10-12 hours a day, davens 2 hours a day, and has a shir 1 hour a day, has no time to spend with his family. The little time he has on shabbos he uses to sleep. Let alone those who have 12 kids, at that point it becomes mathematically impossible to give your kids the time and attention they need and deserve. Having kids without being able to support them is irresponsible. What I would like to know is, any ruv would tell you that you did your dues after 12 kids, why isn’t it the same for five? Who gets to decide how many is enough? As per the Talmud, a boy and a girl is enough to be yoitza, and then comes the question of how many more are you required to have to makiyam B’erev al tanuch yudachu. How many parent with families of 12 do you know who have a close relationship with their kids?
It’s a problem that we have way too many kids? Please Hashem, send us more.
Anonymous said…
If you can’t afford to provide for your children don’t have them. I fail to see why “staying in the city” is not an option. You brought these kids into the world–you take care of them.
Ok, let’s not pretend that we all have this grand plan before we have kids. Fact is, we get married off at the age of 19-20, we have NO clue as to what we’re getting into, and then we just need to sit there and figure things out as we go. Before you know it, you have a large family and you’re not even 30 years old yet. I think way too much is expected of us. A family demands support; and that includes clothing, education, and yes, even vacation for the kids. Problem is, we get married way too early and have way too many kids. Most ppl in the world wouldn’t be able to afford feeding families of our size.
anon 3:30
Definetely living out of town will not work for you, when there might not be even one shomer shabbos family on your block.
I think you all need to take a second and look at it from the economic standpoint. The ONLY reason the catskills is so expensive is because the demand by the jews , drove up the price so much.
There was a time when Land in catskills was pennies, and so was construction. Just like most other frum communities in new york state. Ask anyone whos not jewish how much they paid for their house in the catskills, they will are having such a laugh about the prices the jews are paying in these “colonies”.
True that day camps in the city are expensive, but the program here is so full and exciting.
It’s all in the attitude that the parents establish towards the summer and day camp.
We dont all need the country if we can just appreciate how much fun the city can be
Anyway to extend the bungalow season so that those of us who stay in Brooklyn can enjoy additional weeks without the noise and congestion? Any suggestions appreciated. Boro Park is such a pleasure in the summer.
3:53 your’e right about not judging other people’s spending ways. What might be a luxury for some is a necessity for others.
Let’s quit worrying about other people’s plates and just look at our own.
The Mitzvah of Tzedakah is NOT WELFARE it is rather Dai Mechsoro if one is “muchusar” the funds for a bungalow you can give him tzedakah for it.
many factors come into the equation such as
what type of kehilla you are part of ,say you have 4 kids in daycamp if you live in flatbush thats $5000
w/o daycamp on sunday…
—————-
$4,000 is a more accurate amount.
BUNGALOW LIFE IS A DOUBLE EDGED SWORD IT IS THE
THE SOURCE OF MUCH GOOD AND MUCH EVIL
THE KEY IS clear & open communication between husband & wife different strokes for different folks
many factors come into the equation such as
what type of kehilla you are part of ,say you have 4 kids in daycamp if you live in flatbush thats $5000
w/o daycamp on sunday… in williamsburg daycamp is around $2000-
that same flatbush family with 4 kids in a bungalow day camp is paying $2000
how well your wife is managing the children is another point, in the country they can sort of entertain themselves more easily..
there is something to say about the space, air ,grass ..
in short do what is best for your family and $$$$ has to be carefully budgeted
What is the position of our Gedolim on this? Have any made a statement?
Borough Park and Flatbush are delightful during the summer.
So delightful, in fact, that I may just buy a bungalow on 14th Ave. and spend my summers there.
Shabbos is nice and peaceful as is all week in the city. I would of loved that the people stay longer in the country.
—–
I dread when all the woman/gossipers on my block return from the country. There is so much peace on my block while they are gone. Oh well, all good things have to come to an end.
We used to go to Brooklyn for the summer from Miami and stay in friends empty apartments when my kids were small. We had a blast, all the museums in the city were empty and so were the pizza shops. Shopping was a breeze and we had a great time. Compared to FL we were nice and cool too.
Day camp? its still a luxury to me. Rent, food and clothing are things I am happy to be able to afford without asking for tzeddaka.
If you are sending 4+ kids to day camp in the city, going to a bungallow ends up being a wash from a financial perspective and perhaps cheaper if you have more than 5 kids. Once the kids start going to sleep away camp, this changes of course.
Personally, I think this is all hogwash. We waste a lot of money (clothing and simchas for one) – bungallow colonies seem to provide a tangible benefit. Compared to the other things we waste money on I would say bungallows are a metziah.
Dear 331pm
If your children “kill each other” (i understand it’s a metaphor) because they don’t feel sufficiently entertained you should look at how you are bringing your children up instead of indulging them into further despair.
One thing I learned a while ago is that no one has a right to question or comment how people spend money. For example, I asked for a tuition break this past year and got it. I then took a weeks vacation out of state. Why? Because my wife & I had been through a roller coaster of emotional stress this past year needed it for our sanity. Yes, we were so stressed out that we just needed a break and had to get away from it all.
Going to the Catskills in my opinion should not be based upon how thick a persons wallet is. If it’s necessary, then go. We have no right to comment on someone else’s life and tell them what is necessary.
And just because a family gets Tomchei Shabbos does not mean that they can not do anything else in their life. We don’t give tzedaka and tell a person how to spend it.
Ivdu es hashem b’simcha. If going to the Catskills brings happiness and relief,,,KOL HAKOVOD !!
Why live in a place that is, for one reason or another, uninhabitable for two months of the year? Even if you *can* afford it, the thought of packing up the whole household seems insane to me.
I realize a lot of people view Brooklyn as “ir hakodesh”, and I understand that many people have close family in Brooklyn. But at some point you’ve got to think about the quality of life you’re getting — or not getting — for your money.
Housing in *any* frum neighborhood is always going to be more expensive, but I can’t imagine paying top dollar *and* foregoing even a small backyard as well as local parks.