                                    ‘August 27 Pinned News’
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Israel – Shas party spiritual leader Rabbi Ovadia Yosef, a former Sephardi chief rabbi of Israel, told followers in remarks broadcast on Monday that Israel Defense Forces soldiers were killed in combat because they did not observe Jewish religious laws.
“Is it any wonder if, heaven forbid, soldiers are killed in a war?” Rabbi Yosef said during his weekly Saturday night sermon.
“They don’t observe the Sabbath, they don’t observe [the laws of] the Torah, they don’t pray, they don’t put on phylacteries every day. Is it any wonder that they’re killed? It’s no wonder. May the Almighty have mercy on them and bring them back to religion.
Israeli media accounts of the sermon also quoted Rabbi Yosef as saying that when soldiers “believe and pray, God helps them during the war” and that these troops “don’t get killed.”
The comments sparked wide criticism. Public Security Minister Avi Dichter said that he was “pained by the statements.”
“Casualties to civilians and soldiers make no distinction between those who are more exacting [in their religious observance] and those who are less.”
David Einhorn, father of a soldier killed in the Second Lebanon War a year ago, strongly criticized the rabbi for his comments. Einhorn said his son was killed just before he was to put on phylacteries for prayer. [haaretz]
Anon 6:57: You insult that yidden who, b”h, managed to escape the Nazi churban. Are you implying that those that made it to safety should have stayed to be m’kayim the tochacha, c”v, and to be m’chaper on their aveirus? Please. There was no mitzva to go willingly to the gas chambers.
If you weren’t such a moron and understood what I wrote you would not have posted this idiotic comment. G-d runs the world!, The holocaust didn’t happen because G-d was powerless to stop it or because the Medina did not exist. The entire holocaust was yad Hashem. Now you may want to change Gods, because your God only passes out lollypops and only makes it rain when the crops need water and only does things that YOU can logically comprehend. But my G-d is bigger than that and his cheshbonos or way out of my league, so I take what he sends me, I don’t try to second guess him and I don’t criticize him.
RE: … How many Jews around the world die of anti-semitism yearly? How many Jews have died because of anti-semitism in the Medina since Oslo? …..
This is an old , ridiculous , tired argument.
Let me ask you… How many Jews died in the last 2,000 of golus without a medinah?
Unfortunately , until Moshiach comes there is a possibility of Jews getting….. I don’t want to finish the sentence because of AL TIFTECH PEH L, ….
Since we had Eretz Yisroel from the times of Yehoshua , then in the times of the Bais Hamikdosh , Jews also got killed in wars . And if you read the T’nach , there were wars all the time. So what are you going to say? That the Meraglim were right??
You know what? Maybe staying in Mitzraim wasn’t a bad idea after all. That’s what millions of Jews said even while in Mitzraim and they all perished during makas choshech.
I have have this question?? How come the anti-Zionists in Williamsburg don’t prahveh golus? You know what I mean…. Or should I spell it out?
Yes, these quotes are taken completely out of context. I hate to advocate violence, but someone needs to find out who the “shtinkers” are that leak these quotes to Ha’aretz (or find the reporters who attend the lectures just to mock) and shlug them like you shlug a kapppoooore, a kapppoooore, a kapppooore!
According to Shas Chairman Eli Yishai Rabbi Ovadia was not talking about today’s soldiers, “but on the draft conditions in biblical times.” Yosef explained that in those days, it was customary that people who violated Torah rules did not go to war, because they were in greater risk of getting killed.
“The rabbi meant it in the sense of mutual responsibility,” Yishai said. “That is, if the public sins, the soldiers might pay the price. The rabbi called on the public to repent in Elul, the month of selichot (forgiveness), and to pray in order to protect the soldiers.
“The rabbi concluded his sermon with a prayer for the safety of the IDF soldiers. Those who criticized his words did not understand the rabbis’ terminology,” he added.
Yishai also said that on many occasions he saw the rabbi cry after learning of the death of soldiers.
Anon 6:57: You insult that yidden who, b”h, managed to escape the Nazi churban. Are you implying that those that made it to safety should have stayed to be m’kayim the tochacha, c”v, and to be m’chaper on their aveirus? Please. There was no mitzva to go willingly to the gas chambers.
I think what Shetreet was saying is: had there been an independent state with an army, like Israel, there is an excellent chance that more Jews would be around today. The same could be said of any country sympathetic to Jews during WWII, such as the Dominican Republic, but would have been even more true of an Israel. This is a fact whether you think a secular Jewish state is a good or bad idea. Please stop spreading nareshkeit to further your anti Zionist agenda.
I’m glad that at least one person mentioned the toicha’cha. Some people here seem to forget that G-d runs the world. When minister Shitreet welcomed the last group of nefesh b’nefesh olim to eretz yisrael and said “If only the state of Israel had been established ten years earlier…” He should have neen boo-ed, spit on, and bodily thrown out. The thought that the medina protects Yidden more than Hashem, is apikorsus l’mehadrn. The Toicha’cha doesn’t apply if Jews have secular, anti-religious, state? The Jews don’t need G-d if they have a state? Mordechai hatzaddik didn’t have one F16, Chezkiyahu Hamelech didn’t have one Merkava tank, and in the space of a night, the threat of annihilation was reversed in a miraculous fashion. The notion that the Medina saves Jews is false and apikursus. How many Jews around the world die of anti-semitism yearly? How many Jews have died because of anti-semitism in the Medina since Oslo? Jews need to stop relying on the Medina that cannot help them (anybody remember last summer, when a third of the country were refugees?) and start relying on Hashem. That said, there is a yerushalmi (not a “bavusta yerushalmi”, sorry, I learned in Chassidishe Yeshivas not litvishe)that says “every 60-70 years a plague come to the world to wipe out the mamzerim and it takes the kasherim with them so as not to reveal their sin.” (Yer. Yevamos 8:3)
Rabosi, a hirhur tshuva wouldn’t hurt.
it is not for us, even a Rabbi, to judge people and make such statements. If this is what he said, he is not qualified to be a Rabbi. Did he think how he was hurting the families of those soldiers? or does he talk without thinking of the consequenses.
Perhaps somebody heard that speech firsthand. Maybe he was misquoted in Haaretz and the Rabbi is being judged unfairly.
The Ribone shel Olam and only he decides when, who and how we will meet our end. We can not always understand, I often see not religious Jews that seem to have a wonderful time of life.
I am the parent of a child with a disability and it is not easy. Rarely, but still too often some fool will say it is my fault for x, y, or z. The real truth is that we can not know these things. SAME FOR SOLDIERS DYING. Yes, being frum is better but things happen according to the plan of the RSO and not always the way we might envision.
“learn some v’yoel moshe”
Vayoel Moishe is not Halacha Lemoshe Misiani
jews are not alowed to have a nation before moshiach comes. the aguda in the begining also had this opinion they only went in in the kneseth with the atitude to fight from inside. we say in every misaf “imipny chatoeiny golini myartzyni” there are 3 oaths from god to the jews if you dont know about them learn some v’yoel moshe
mi shebeirach avoiseinoo avroham yitzchk vyakov hoo yevareich es chayolainoo ves kol achainoo kol bais yisroel bchol makom shehaim vyishmor vyatzil oisunoo mkol tzara venoimar amen
Those same soldiers whose names are being slandered gave their lives so that he could say that. They gave their blood for this holy land. Entire families lost sons so that he could teach torah on the most holy soil in the world. A little thanks would be in order. A little respect.
Today we heard about OATS (oaths) and HEATERS (Heter/ Hetairim). Where were we during SPELLING Class.
Maybe there should be a three-strikes-and-you’re-out rule. Let’s see: R. Ovadia Yosef has said that 1) Jews died at the hands of the Nazi churban because they were reincarnations of Jews who had done aveirus in previous lives 2) women should stick to knitting and 3)soldiers who don’t put on t’fillin are prone to battlefield death.
When you have to frequently issue statements insisting that people are taking what somebody says out of context, then maybe the problem isn’t that listeners are confused, but that the speaker is mixed up. Listen, not everyone ages gracefully. People begin to say things they wouldn’t have said when they were younger. It may be time to make him sephardic chief rabbi emeritus. That’s not an insult to R. Ovadia — it’s just tevah.
When Achan stole a pesel in Aye during Yehosha’s conquest , 36 other people died for his sin. We don’t understand all the cheshbonos of Hashem , good people die sometimes when others sin. A lot has to do with B’chirah.
Rabbi Yosef was not wrong if he chastized the sinners. Do we not believe in the tochecha , or is it just a Shabbos leining before a hot kiddush?
Having said this , I DO support the State of Israel. Religious people have the option of moving there , change the demographics and install a religious government. If you don’t believe in a Jewish state before Moshiach , please accept that there are opposing viewpoints and you can in no way be sure that you are right. The 3 shvuos is an agadeteh, and if you look in the peirish Rashi and others in Shir Hashirim where these psukim are written , , you’ll see that it doesn’t even talk about Jews but about the Umos Haolam.
To My2Cents said… – “Only fools believe what Haaretz and YNet write when it comes to chareidim“
By the way, “Haaretz and YNet” only write once in a while a paragraph or two against the Chareidim. As for “Der Yid and Der Blatt” they write every week pages and pages against Chareidim!
So maybe it’s better to read the “Haaretz and YNet”, it has less material against the jews.
Sincerely,
-Yaakov Ben Yechiel
Of course what Rabbi Yosef says is true,DID WE FORGET SOMETHING CALLED THE “TOCHACHA”? That would be in Chumash Parshas Bichikosei and Ki Sovo. And to turn this into a Chosid/Litvak thing!
And Rabbi Yosef is obviously NOT STUPID. He obviously noticed what the geniuses here did-that religious soldiers have been killed, too. So he obviously was talking PROBABILITIES, Watson!
And for you doubters here’s the abstract from a study about the phenomenon of longevity in religious vs. secular kibbutzim from Medline(I know-you’ll find 1000 reasons why it isn’t relevant):
“Kark JD, Carmel S, Sinnreich R, Goldberger N, Friedlander Y.
Department of Social Medicine, Hadassah University Hospital, Jerusalem, Israel.
Mortality in 11 secular kibbutzim between 1970 and 1985 was nearly twice that of 11 matched religious kibbutzim. A cross-sectional study was undertaken in 1991 in 10 of these settlements, 5 religious and 5 secular, to determine whether differences in risk factors could explain the unequal survival. These comprised physical, physiologic and biochemical measurements, health-relevant behaviors and psychosocial variables. This report addresses the psychosocial aspect of the study, which included assessment of sense of coherence, hostility, satisfaction with self, work-related stress, social supports and social contacts using self-administered questionnaires.”
Anonymous said…
according to jewish law, a jew is not allowed to have a nation before moshiach comes. serving in the IDF is against the torah no difference with t’filen or without t’filen. god says that if we will not obey the 3 oats we will be killed like the animals & beasts. r’ oivadya yosef almost got it right.
To Anonymous
And in which chelek and siman of Shulchon aruch or the Tur or the Mishneh Torah does it state such a jewish law?
Any one who denies the chasdei Hashem that He gave us a jewish state in our lifetime and continues to show nisim geluyim is a kofui tov like the Meraglim and deserves their fate.
What we have done (or better failed to do with this jewish state) is what we personally will have to give a din vecheshbon.
Yitzchok
…..And then find a heater so no frum kid goes to the army is this hypocrisy or am I drinking?
As a former IDf officer i am applaed at the statement coming from R yosef i have buried close friends and have been wounded for my country and put on teffilen and am religous however he has always mad inflmmatory statements and lots of sephardim dont follow what he says either wa i am disgusted with the comment and all it does is bring more hate against the religous shame shame shame
What about the non-frum soldiers who live?
The soldier’s lives would be better protected if we all have ahavas chinam and believe that Hashem wants all Jewish lives protected.
He is not a settler and he supports Olmert! At least he isn`t a “hated settler” and Shas supports Olmert`s government. I would ask all those angry secularists and anti-religious zionists to check and see who suppports who. The Rav is supported by you, you elect his followers to be religious court rabbis (diyanim) and he supports you to elect Peres. So pay the price and take his (probably misquoted) words in stride. It is a small price to pay in order to destroy religious Zionism and to make Israel safe for Palestine.
he is becoming a “SATMAR” next “no medina”
Dont blame haaretz it has been on every single newspaper and every single news site today, frum right wing or otherwise.
Rav Yosef must be getting a little senile.
He wouldnt have a roof over his head if not for the soldiers who have died on his behalf (frum or not).
Hey 10:39, I only eat oats for breakfast, sometimes. Perhaps you can explain…..
RE: god says that if we will not obey the 3 oats we will be killed like the animals…
So how come Jews were killed for 1900 years throught golus before the establishment of Medinat Israel??
to 11:20,
obviously when ones shomet torah umitvos it protects him, but we are talking about ‘tinok shenishba’ these people dont know better.
the correct thing for Rav Ovadaia to say would have been a call to increase in the observence in torah and this would be a way to protect themselves when they are at war.
but to say that the fact that yidden are being killed is because they are not shomer torah umitzvos is firstly the opposite of ‘ahavas yisroel’ and secondly a true ‘leader’ of yidden doesnt say such things…
oivadya yosef shouldent attend mixed parties, & stop to inflame a sfardic ashkanazy fight. than he could teach us about “OBSERVING THE TORAH”
I am not sure how anybody can say what the cause is when somthing happens to sombody.
even Hasem yesbarach told moshe rabaneu that he would not be able understand his ways, why bad things happen to good people
And what is the reason that a Frum soldier dies? It it because a frum person has no right to be in the army?
“At August 27, 2007 9:24 AM , Anonymous said…
I can believe a hundred percent that he would say such a thing. because he probably believes it.
The truth is that this is a ‘derech’ which dates back more than 200 years. Its called ‘Hisnagdus’ and im referring to the differences in shita between the Chassidim and Misnagdim.
And i ask you:
does it ENTER anyone’s mind that such a ‘torah’dige comment’ would come out from the Lubavitcher Rebbe ZT”L????”
Rav Ovadya is not a Litvak, he is a Sfardi Chacham.
Are you saying the Lubavitcher Rebbe didn’t believe that not following the Torah (Rachmono litzlon) endangers people, especially in Eretz Yisroel ????
and we wonder why people turn away from the derech.
according to jewish law, a jew is not allowed to have a nation before moshiach comes. serving in the IDF is against the torah no difference with t’filen or without t’filen. god says that if we will not obey the 3 oats we will be killed like the animals & beasts. r’ oivadya yosef almost got it right.
It’s no wonder that Israel is such a failure, politically, diplomatically and now spiritually. The men, and they are only men, who have been elevated to positions of authority on Jewish Law are nothing but fools.Furthermore they have made a mockery of our rich traditions.
I can believe a hundred percent that he would say such a thing. because he probably believes it.
The truth is that this is a ‘derech’ which dates back more than 200 years. Its called ‘Hisnagdus’ and im referring to the differences in shita between the Chassidim and Misnagdim.
And i ask you:
does it ENTER anyone’s mind that such a ‘torah’dige comment’ would come out from the Lubavitcher Rebbe ZT”L????
Only fools believe what Haaretz and YNet write when it comes to chareidim. This is a typical example of their hatred towards charedim in general and Rabbi in particular. If you want to know the truth, read Arutz-7.
We do not rely upon Haaretz as a credible source for transcripts of Rabbi Yosef’s shiurim and VIN readers should not either.
August 27, 2007 8:49 AM
===================================
if you think he is quoited put of context then why dont u supply us with the REAL context so we can decide on our own what was truly said.
The comment by the father who suffered the great misfortune of losing his son in battle as he was about to put on Tefillin does not negate R’ Yosef’s point that non-observant people are asking for trouble when they put themselves in a life-threatening situation.
The Gemara tells us that when a person is in a dangerous situation, the accusing angel is able to speak and try to “get” the person. So, in that light, the Rabbi’s comment can be understood quite simply: The more “demerits” a soldier has, the more the fuel the accusing angel has to add to his fire. Therefore, it is in the soldier’s best interests to lessen his demerits, by serving G-d and observing (among others,) the things the Rabbi mentioned.
This does not mean that if a soldier does all those things, that he is, therefore, invincible. He does, however, leave the accusing angel with (much) less ammunition against him when he is in that war zone.
And one more thought.
Rabbi Yosef is a Chief Sephardic Rabbi and a Gadol Hador. It is a big aveira to disparage a Gadol Hador, AND it is ELUL!!!
Kesiva v’chatima Tovah.
Haaretz loves to publish “quotes” from Rabbi Ovadia Yosef.
These “quotes” are usually parts of sentences he has strung together completely out of context.
We do not rely upon Haaretz as a credible source for transcripts of Rabbi Yosef’s shiurim and VIN readers should not either.
Ok, I think I got that,
So, Rav Ovadia, why are the Frum Soldiers also getting killed?