Subscribe to our Daily Roundup Email
New York – Jews like coffee. and Starbucks, of course, is the king of marketing. Enter the halachic component, however. Is every coffee in this store permitted? The stores are under no hashgachah. “But, it’s only coffee!” some protest. “What could be wrong with coffee?”
In fact, there are numerous halachic problems. Flavored coffees require kashrus supervision, plain and simple. Why? Because these flavors are added artificially to the bean after it is roasted. These flavors—hazelnut, vanilla bean, or chocolate—are not pure pieces of the same, but come from flavorings that need supervision. Non-kosher ingredients are often placed in these flavorings and are not halachically considered batel—annulled—because they are avida l’timah—done for the purpose of flavoring. When this is done, even if there is less than 1/60th, the laws of bitul do not apply.
Can one order just a Tazo latte, or a buttery caramel macchiato? The short answer is no. The reason is that these coffees are mixed while they are piping hot in containers and machinery that are washed in a hot dishwasher with tarfus, non-kosher. [5tjt]
Anon. 5:21PM The other side of the Irony?! is that the “SQUEAKY, GREASY, RUSTY” (some of the names being called by other posters)BIGWHEEL, as a CHASSIDSHE ZHLOB, (only expressing some of the prejudice encountered in daily life) has the privilege of correcting the misspellings and lack of syntax by the “oufgeklerte”
(and highly prejudiced) “OYLEM”.
P.S.: All of the above should be taken with a grain of salt.
Yes, wheel, you proved that you spell better. That alone will settle the milk issue, no doubts. Actually, while you are absolutely correct regarding proper spelling, my errors are more in line with the “Heimishe” population who forbids the milk. Quite ironic, isn’t it.
Anon. 1:17AM …to the self-acclaimed non-posek who SQUEEKS yet again… As a highly-educated
commenter (as opposed to COMMENTATOR) you should, please make an effort to use proper English and SPELLING.
Yes, I am a self-PROCLAIMED, A/O (as opposed)to “Self-Acclaimed” non-posek. No, I haven’t read the Pri-Chodosh, yet. It’s, hopefully not too tedious for me. And yes, even as a “squeaky” (spelling corrected) N.P. I have a right [as anyone else] to comment on any relevant issue –and we don’t have to default into emotional response
mode at the drop of a hat, or a post. The main purpose [aside from entertainment]of this whole debate is to discuss things in a factual manner. [a] GUTten SHABBOS.
Chazon Ish YD 41:4 may be of interest to those who think that Rav Moshe was the first and only to permit such milk.
HAGOEN Rav Reuven & Hagoen Rav Dovid Fienstien both permit cholov stam drakes hagen daaz etc…They even ate drink themselvs (till they became roshie yeshivas)If you dont trust me pick up the phome and call them. Everey body just folow your rav live and let live’stop trying to control everybody lives.you want to be machmir thats great ashrecha but dont dont impose it on other people and get into a fight over it which leads to foul language loshon hara etc… How is moshiach sopposed to come when he sees all of us fighting with each other (not only on this issue)so much hatred nobody can be civil with each other. We have to understand that it makes no differance wether one person is a ashkenaz yid or a sefardic , yeminite ,chasidish,breslov ,lubavitch,falasha,gerim,etc…WE ARE ALL FROM ONE HASHEM we have to be tolerant with each other PLEASE I BEG OF YOU LETS RESPECT EACH OTHER STOP FIGHTING EVEN VERBALLY ITS WRONG. JUST OPEN YOUR EYES LOOK WHATS GOING ON IN THE WORLD HASHEM KEEP SENDING US MESSANGES ONE AFTER ANOTHER TELLING US PLEASE WAKE UP BUT WERE SO STUBERN DONT WANT LISTEN!! DAVEN TESHUVA TEZDYKA MASIM TOVIM.
YES sir, CHOLOV AKKUM! not cholov stam! non of the poskim refer to a product called cholov stam, they all call it simple “cholov akkum” very bluntly, Because this is what it is…
Again..!! Call it what you want. Those that have a hechsher are kosher. period. The Rabbonim who approve it know the halochos at least as good as you. Now go and drink your geneivishe cholov yisroel sour glue.
Correct, the Ch. Ch. never permitted Chalav Akum, nobody has. He permitted Factory Milk, as it has a chazaka of being from cows only. Go read before you write.
I like blind declarations : this procedure makes cows TREIF!!!!
Whatever happened to the words such as may, can, could, would. You seem to have already paskened the issue for yourself, and therefore will never be open to any discussion regarding it, no matter with whom.
12:46, the ignorance shines forth again. The procedure you named was permitted by almost all poskim in the 50’s, what it was just started. The controversy regarding it surfaced a decade or so ago, without anything new to have warranted the question again.
Ye, ye, if cholov akum would be the only concern.
as of today, most – or close to it – of the cows go through a special procedure to build up milk production, and this procedure makes the cows TREIF! so when talking about reb Moishe, dont refer just to cholov akum as reb moishe did, cuz now we’re facing a problem with treif.
and the whole bringing the chofetz chaim here is irrelevant, the Ch. Ch. never permitted cholov akum.
No Goilem, i give it to the cats, and even they loath it.
Anonymous said…
Goilem, heimishe milk is half sour the second u open it. This jsut proves that you never smelled fresh milk in your life.
October 26, 2007 12:17 PM
GOILEM?
YOU PROBABLY NEVER DRINK HEIMESHE KOSHER FRESH MILK!!!!
Dear Mr. Akum of 11:30
Indded, none of the poskim refer to anything called Chalav Stam. They properly called it Chalv Yisroel unsupervised by a Jew. Which is not, in any way Akum. The disagreement of Chasidishe poskim with this psak is well known, and they weren’t the only ones. Rav Breuer was possibly louder in his condemnation of the psak than all the Rebbes together.
Yet, it may be worthwhile to examine the Chafetz Chaim’s psak permitting “factory milk”, without even coming to mirses, or government surveilance. So, while some Chasidic authorities found it easy and enjoyable to take on the Posek Hador of their generation, how many have the guts to argue with the C”C? I meant argue INTELLIGENTLY, not yell that since the time of the Besht…., and there is a maase with the Heiger…., and that once by some tish…… You know, a real halachic argument worthy of the signature under it.
Goilem, heimishe milk is half sour the second u open it. This jsut proves that you never smelled fresh milk in your life.
Anonymous said…
10:45
How would you know if anythign beats Schwatz’s Coffee, if the second you pour a cup you immediately add sour milk to it?
WELL, DONT POUR SOUR MILK INTO IT
TAKE A MINUTE AND SMELL THE MILK IF IT”S FRESH (GOILEM)
anon said:
Akkum , shmakkum,cCall it what you want. If it has a hechsher it’s ok by those of us who don’t want to drink New Square & Goldenflow sour so-called milk….
YES sir, CHOLOV AKKUM! not cholov stam! non of the poskim refer to a product called cholov stam, they all call it simple “cholov akkum” very bluntly, Because this is what it is…
This new fancy word cholov stam was newly fabricated, freshly baked on american soil, to give some comfort to those who are unfortunately not makpid on kosher cholov yisroel..
and… yes, Golden flow & N.S. milk is indeed sour… if you use it a week after the expiration date. otherwise its no different than any treifa milk.
10:45
How would you know if anythign beats Schwatz’s Coffee, if the second you pour a cup you immediately add sour milk to it?
Now, this is what I would call symbiosis, two low quality products that enhance one another to the point of being “the best”, to some tastes. Assuming, of course, that all the hot kigel, eaten previously while cringing from pain, hasn’t totally obliterated your heimishe taste buds.
You mean those little black things Shufra sells is supposed to be chocolate? I was wondering about that.
October 25, 2007 4:38 PM
JUST BECAUSE IT HAS A HEIMISHE HECSHER YOU CALL IT THOSE LITTLE THINGS?
THE HAPPEN TO MAKE EXCELLENT PRODUCTS!!!!!
AND AGAIN NOTHING BEATS ###SCHWARTS COFFEE”””
Either ALL milk in the US is Chalav Yisrael or none of it is.
The so-called CY dairy packaging plants rely upon a security camera to be the “mashgiach”. And no, there is not a Jew sitting there every day at 3 and 5am watching the camera.This is “watched” without “watching” which is halachically acceptable.
Aside from the security camera which the FDA requires of ALL dairies in the country, there are the logs, tags and other tracking devices that the USDA and FDA require for all milk shipments in the US.
You can verify this for yourself by calling the dairies that label themselves CY and asking if you can be present at some of the CY milkings at the farm. Most of the companies will proudly admit that they use the security camera mashgiach as they view it as a great innovation in kashrus. (But why then does CY labelled milk still cost more??).
Those who will not openly admit to using the security camera mashgiach, will also not let Rabbis or other “outsiders” to contact the farm to speak to anyone who could possibly verify that a “Rabbi” is present for all of the milkings which fill the tankers that they ship to CY dairy packagers.
If you can get anything from the CY Dairy company, it will be a picture of a Rabbi with a big beard standing in front of a packaging machine smiling.
This is not CY according to the Shulchan Aruch. If you feel you require CY according to the Shulchan Aruch in the US you will have to buy a cow. If you believe that “watched without watching, security camera mashgichim” are sufficient then ALL milk in the US is CY and you can have your Ben and Jerry’s and eat it too.
Don’t take my word for it, be an educated kosher consumer and investigate for yourself. BEFORE you spend another $5 for a gallon of sour milk.
…But it’s NOT Cholov Yisroel. Therefore, it’s Cholov Akkum….
Akkum , shmakkum,cCall it what you want. If it has a hechsher it’s ok by those of us who don’t want to drink New Square & Goldenflow sour so-called milk.
To the self-acclaimed non posek who sqeeks yet again.
I cannot ask you to read the Pri Chadash on these halachos, as this may be way too tedious for you, and you may not even know where they are. BUT!! If you speak English, and do reside in this country, you should be well aware of Rav Moshe’s psak that not only allows it, but defines it in the words that will surely bother you.
CHALAV YISROEL SHEEIN YIRSOEL OMED AL GABAV.
So, where does your fifth wheel belong with your ignorant declarations of calling it Chalav Akum? And then yo backtrack and say that it doesn’t meant it’s treif? It sure does, boy, for if it IS Chalav Akum, it definitely IS unkosher.
So, prior to posting what makes no sense in of itself, read up just a little bit about the subject matter, and the first one to gain may just be you.
I don’t understand the whole milk issue; who paskened that Chalav Stam is Treif just because you’re makpid to eat Chalav Yisrael? And is that psak universal?
Didn’t Rav Moshe write something along the lines of this: Chalav Stam is fine because fear of the FDA will prevent non-Jews from using pig’s milk (which is the whole issue of Chalav Akum), but Bnei Yeshiva (or Baal Nefesh?) should be machmir anyways to use Chalav Yisrael in order Shelo Tishakach, that people should know that there is an inyan of Cholov Yisrael, even if the FDA negates the issue for Americans.
If that is the case, Cholov Stam is 100% kosher, in which case the pots and pans used to make Cholov Stam are kosher as well, in which case there should be a “DE” appellation in addition to a “D”.
Monsey’er 1:14PM I’ve (personally) seen some Yidden w. Beard and Payos
go in to Mc. Donalds [on the Thruway] “Just to Buy a Drink”.
Anon. 5:58PM If yours is a Rhetorical (pls. lk. up in the dict.)question (pls. …), where is the EXCLAMATION MARK??!!
Anon. 3:02PM As I pointed out previously, I’m not a Rav or Posek. Far from it. But speaking of grease. (BTW, please mind your spelling. GREESE vs. GREASE. thank you). We’re ONLY dealing in DEFINITIONS.
Anon. 2:25PM The key word [in my post] is SOME conditions, i.e. Pregnancy]. Then again, I’m NOT a Posek or Rav. Far from it. We’re only dealing with DEFINITIONS, not what’s permitted or isn’t. To paraphrase a passage from The Talmud. (That ancient Document hated by all the anti-Semites through the generations). …Milk that was milked … and was not supervised [… . …] is …; Now, that doesn’t mean that it’s TREIF. But it’s NOT Cholov Yisroel. Therefore, it’s Cholov Akkum.
This issue is worth 36 comments when women are being beaten, Jews are being blackmailed and criminals are touted as “community leader?”
——-
I would guess that the people who were beating the woman would also not eat or drink from Starbucks. So there is some similarity.
This issue is worth 36 comments when women are being beaten, Jews are being blackmailed and criminals are touted as “community leader?”
You people sound crazy. There is such a thing as a Kosher Dunkin Donuts. I dont know about any thing Kosher on the Thruway, but there is one now in Suffern off the Thruway. All coffe that is prepackaged in Dunkin Donuts or Starbucks packaging is kosher with an OU on the package. One of them even was good for Pesach. If you are makpid on Cholov Yisroel don’t drink the coffee in these places, however you can either bring your own milk or buy it black without a problem. I am not vouching for the whipped creams or the syrups they add to the Lattes and Frapacinos but the plain coffees are fine.
“If you rely on KASHRUT.ORG you can eat the hamburger buns, warmed in the ovens (next to the burgers!!) “
In a post dated 8/28/2003 Rabbi Abadi SPECIFICALLY FORBADE the situation that you describe above.
1. If you are in anon-kosher restaurant, and they have veggie burgers that are kosher, you just order a veggie burger or do you have to know how they cook it etc. so as to keep it away from the regular burgers. For example, what would be the halakhah if they grill it on a grill with non-kosher burgers or if they put it in a microwave?
1) It should be cooked separately. It’s Ok if it is put in the microwave by itself. Or have it grilled on a cleaned grill. The grill is so hot that it is constantly Kashering itself.
And again, Rabbi Abadi forbids the same situation on 5/21/2003:
is it true that rav abadi permits veggie burgers at burger king how is this possible they use the same grill for cheeseburgers?????
Reply: No burgers from the grill. The only thing mentioned was that the ingredients in the veggie burger are kosher, and if you can get it in a separate plate from a clean microwave, it’s OK.
Many people have a problem with this. They are entitled. The goal of this website is to say the truth. If it bothers some people, that’s their problem. If someone asks if something is Kosher, I’ll answer him/her honestly.
AA
The same situation was again CLEARLY FORBIDDEN on 4/9/2003:
Burger King Burgers
Message: I just read your answer about the Burger King burgers. Isn’t there a problem that these burger are on the same grill as the meat burgers and what about a marit ayain problem. (other jews seeing you in the store eating.)
Reply: Look again at what I said about putting it separately in the microwave.
Also Maarit Ayin only applies where its brought in Shulchan Aruch. We can’t make up new ones.
AA
When quoting the Psak of a Gadol Hador, one should be very careful to quote EXACTLY and CORRECTLY, preferably copying the written psak itself as I just did.
With regard to cooking on a BBQ grill that was previously used for non kosher meat, which is a completely SEPARATE question from what you had stated above:
The BBQ grill should be heated to a temperature at which any possible residue would burn off.
This is Libun Gamur, the way in which a BBQ grill is properly kashered.
“Oh yes, Willi coffee !! Probably as good a comparison as Shufra chocolates to Godiva. Enjoy.”
You mean those little black things Shufra sells is supposed to be chocolate? I was wondering about that.
Anonymous said…
Oh yes, Willi coffee !! Probably as good a comparison as Shufra chocolates to Godiva. Enjoy.
sorry, you have no taste at all
Oh yes, Willi coffee !! Probably as good a comparison as Shufra chocolates to Godiva. Enjoy.
Is SCHWARTZ’s coffee recycled?
Do I assume that the BIGWHEEL is as big as the Poskim who completely permit regular off-the-shelf milk in the USA?
If not, does the idea that the squeeky one gets all the greese apply here? Speaking of which, greesy ideas have no room in halacha. Things are permitted or forbidden solely based on the Torah, and not on how frum or unfrum they appear. Otherwise, why need a hechsher? If the butcher wears white socks, of course his meat is super glatt!!!
“If somebody really wants to know what is kosher in starbucks go to KASHRUT.ORG THERE YOU WILL FIND ALL YOUR ANSWERS.”
If you rely on KASHRUT.ORG you can eat the hamburger buns, warmed in the ovens (next to the burgers!!) at McDonalds! As long as the goy behind the counter tells you “meisiach lefi tumo??” that they have no non-kosher ingredients in them!!!
Check it out!!! Read a little of that website (not too much – you’ll get nauseous!!!
according to my seminary(which is located in bklyn and run by fantastic rabbayim), the way starbucks works is they use regular coffee, which is fine, and add syrup, as someone previously mensioned. As long as the syrups have a hechshar, you’re fine. In terms of filtered water, if not a paper filter, and only a metal version, then the water would not be filtered. Dunkin Donuts uses actual flavored coffees, so without a hechshar, that’s a problem. Regular coffee I had always been told was fine (u now have the filtering issue…if paper filter, no problem…), so in terms of regular coffee, I’d say ‘ask your local rabbi”:
Either it is CHOLOV YISROEL
or it’s CHOLOV AKKUM, Just like other conditions in life where there is no in-between, or partial situation. Either a person is, or isn’t.
October 25, 2007 1:42 PM
Please tell us that you’re joking..
PEOPLE AROUND THE WORLD ARE SOMETIMES SO NAIVE
BECAUSE YOU SEE A COFFE CHAIN OPENING UP AT EVERY STREET CORNER YOU THINK UH! IT”S THE BEST COFFEE IN TOWN
WELL THE BEST COFFEE IN TOWN IS “”SCHWARTZ KOSHER COFFEE””
AVAILABLE IN WILLIE ETC.
BELEIVE ME ITS TRUE!!!!!!
there is a cholov yisrael dunkin donuts on the thruway before monsey isnt there?
The cartel wants it’s cut.
do you really think that savage reads vin?
Great Writing Michael Savage!!! 🙂
Rabbi Abadi has investigated Starbucks very thoroughly, all of the coffees, syrups, fraps, ingredients and the packaged goods that are sold there.
You can search on each particular item at kashrut.org to find out if it is kosher.
People who live outside of Brooklyn, or who travel on business need to know how to eat from establishments that are not under hashgacha. Man cannot live on Le Briut meals alone.
People who live in Brooklyn or Monsey also should know hilchos Kashrus because sometimes there are very obvious violations in places that ARE under supervision. The responsibility for eating kosher food is on the consumer and not the supervising Rabbi so it is in our best interest to learn as much halacha as we can.
1:24 –
Starbucks in NOT anti-semitic or anti-Israel.
The CEO is very big, Jewish, baal tzedakah, although he is not frum.
The Starbucks in Israel closed, because the company that owned the franchise there was losing money, plain and simple.
Anon. 10:15AM Yes, that’s the policy of the OU. Anytime any Parve
product comes in contact with Dairy equipment (be it in the dishwasher) it is marked as OU-D;
Aside from the argument that OU-D is CHOLOV STAM, there is no such thing. Either it is CHOLOV YISROEL
or it’s CHOLOV AKKUM, Just like other conditions in life where there is no in-between, or partial situation. Either a person is, or isn’t.
Anon. 10:08AM About the only word that was spelled correctly [in your post] is STUPID. Along the way I thought that I’m learning about a new word in English.
yidden, don’t drink starbucks cholerisha coffee! they are anti-semitic dopes. they don’t allow any starbucks in Israel and dozens of starbucks are located in all those bakakta arab countries.Check their website (www.starbucks.com) Do not patronize them!
“If this continues you may see one day yidden with beard and payos going in to dunken doughnuts or maybe even McDonalds.”
I believe most starbucks locations will only sell cofee for cold hard cash, and will not accept a beard or payos. It may even be company policy.
the halachos regarding drinking Starbucks coffee varies depending on the location. If you are a chushiver yid and you are worried about what they will say about you in the mikvah then you are only permitted to drink starbucks at out-of-town locations where no one will see you. If you are a toicho k’baro person and you don’t care what some leidegayer will say in the mikvah then you are permitted to drink coffee from any starbucks location.