Netanya – This past week a Kiruv concert given by Avrohom Fried was held in Netanya, with the idea of bringing together religious and not yet religious people under the same roof. The concert, however, was not without controversy – as a Kol Koreh was declared not to attend the concert.
An intriguing article in the Kfar Chabad newspaper by Rabbi Menachem Brod shlita discussed the implications of the declaration not to attend. It further discussed the general implications of forbidding that which is generally permitted. Often the ramifications are such that any good influence that might have come out of the concert (or of deciding upon one’s own not to attend a concert) has perforce been negated.
see below video of the concert
Rabbi Brod elaborated that, in general , Hasidic philosophy adheres to the idea of, “what is forbidden is forbidden and what is muttar (permitted) is meyuttar (not necessary).” This is a famous statement of the saintly Tzaddik and Chassid Rabbi Mordechai Horodeker to Rav Shmuel Dov of Borosov.
“The spiritual elevation that comes through abstaining from that which is permissible, however, is limited. It is limited to cases where the abstinence is internal. When the idea of refraining from something permitted is imposed upon people by an external force – any spiritual elevation that can occur from that abstinence is eliminated. ” explained Rabbi Brod. Rabbi Brod elaborated further: An additional Hasidic concept that might be pertinent to this case is the idea that practicing restraint in areas that are permitted assists us in developing our self-control and restraint when it comes to actual prohibitions. Any such benefit in regard to legislating a prohibition here is thus also lost.
When parents impose prohibitions upon their children, they must keep this in mind. The implications of this idea upon child-rearing are rather far-reaching. And it is not just parents that should be careful. Teachers, educators, and community leaders should bear this in mind as well.
The article was not necessarily backing the concert, however. It did , as food for thought, question the tendency of late to forbid kosher and reasonable activities to those that may be in psychological need of such things. All people have natural desires and inclinations. Is it not possible to channel these drives and desires in a kosher way?
An Avrohom Fried concert does have the ability to inspire. It is important that we not make the error of fitting everyone into the same mold and assuming that things that have inspired our generation in the past should and must still inspire everyone in the next generation as well. All people and all children are different and may need different methods to achieve the same end – bringing us ever closer to Avinu Shebashamayim.
Breng shoin de geula.
I think the problem in our generation is -that a lot of people are rosh yeshivos and rebbeim and rabonnim because it is PC. We don’t live in a generation that only people Royee (fitting) are in positions of power. If your kids don’t respect their rebbeim, take them out of that yeshiva and put them in a yeshiva where you can have respect for the rebbeim. You probably have them in that yeshiva because it is a PC chosov yeshiva, try to find one where the rebbeim can be respected. And no -all the yeshivos are not the same. It probably is a problem with the yeshiva and not with your kids. “I’m K’malach Hashem -go seek torah from him.” I personally learnt in a lot of yeshivos and didn’t and wouldn’t invite many of the rosh yeshivos to my chasunah, let alone offer them any kibbudim.
I think this whole business of kol korays should stop for the following reason:
Religious Judiasm is based on one thing – Halacha.
Everyone should have a Posek to ask if they have shailos. We all know that there are many opinions when it comes to Halacha. We should ask our own poskim what to do in life, we don’t need rosh yeshivos and rabonnim brodcasting their opinion as if there can be no other opinion. Unless the kol koray is to warn the people on something that is being disguised as something mutter and really isn’t. For example,: Don’t eat chicken from So & so’s store, it’s really traif! Besides these kind of scenarios, kol korays should stop. By signing on Concert bans type of kol korays, they are causing people to lose respect for talmeiday chachomim.
“Unless the kol koirai is about something treif disguised as something mutar” – you mean like a concert???
By Ben Nathan
The 5 Towns Jewish Times
They have become the dominant news sources on the Internet for religious Jews. No, they are not the websites of the Jewish Press or JTA or the websites of various Jewish religious organizations. They are two sites started by independent individuals. They are Yeshiva World News (theyeshivaworld.com) and Vos Iz Neias? (vinnews.com), also known as VIN News. Somehow, some way, these two sites have managed to eclipse virtually every other site in cyberspace for this particular niche. How did they do it? What makes them unique?
Their ability to ferret out news stories is pretty uncanny. A few years ago, many people who were interested in obtaining Jewish news used to go to Google and put in Jewish keywords: “Israel,” “rabbi,” “Jewish,” “Hasidic,” etc. This was a means of obtaining news of Jewish interest from thousands of newspapers across the country and the world that evaded the radar of the standard Jewish newspapers. Somehow, however, these two websites were able to move way beyond this method.
Is their success something that other businesses, no matter what the industry, could emulate? Is there something that may be learned from them? We set out to discover what lies behind these sites.
The sheer dedication of the people who run these sites plays a central role in the dissemination of breaking Jewish news affecting the religious Jewish community. They never let five hours pass without updating their sites. (This, of course, has its advantages and disadvantages. People are ever more attracted to the site, yet since so much new information is added, important stories are pushed back and set aside. Also, sometimes the accuracy of stories is not verified to the extent that a print newspaper would verify it.)
Stories from these sites have attracted the attention of newspapers throughout New York, including the great gray lady, the New York Times herself. When the Times reported on the ban on the religious Jewish concert, the information came directly from Vos Iz Neias? (which is Yiddish for “What’s news?”). The Monsey meat scandal that rocked the Torah community a few years ago also came directly from Vos Iz Neias.
Who are the anonymous people behind Vos Iz Neias and Yeshiva World News? What is their underlying philosophy? Vos Iz Neias is run by four men and backed by other investors. Two of the leaders have a strong background in technology. Two are Chassidish, while the other two would best be described as Modern Orthodox, but they are difficult to categorize. The two Chassidish owners are from two different Chassidish streams. One of the Chassidish owners told the Five Towns Jewish Times, “Vos Iz Neias is not afraid to say things the way they are. We do not censor the news. Vos Iz Neias tries to cover real newsworthy events.” Although Johnny Cochran once argued that it is racist to state that a person’s ethnicity can be determined just by hearing their voice, the owner that we spoke to was clearly Chassidish. All four have noms de plume—this one is called “Shlomo.” In describing what differentiates Vos Iz Neias from other sites, Shlomo says, “We come out very strongly on child abuse and other things that other places would not talk about. The story of the ‘Ponzi scheme’ was covered.”
At this point, Vos Iz Neias is not a financially viable operation. The owners report that many advertisers are simply not comfortable dealing with anonymous people—and the site owners do wish to remain anonymous.
Shlomo continued, “The Internet is here to stay and will only get bigger. Is it a problem? Yes. No question. But do you know how many organizations have honored people that have made millions of dollars on the Internet and then gave these organizations money, and then they go on and ban the Internet? This is a joke.” From a technology perspective, Vos Iz Neias is cutting-edge. Of the four owners, two invest in technology companies. The other two have various other positions, one of them involving editing. The material that appears on the site very often reflects the particular person who is manning the site at that particular time. Often readers will see traces, allusions, and clues of a Chassidic brand of Yinglish, while at other times they will see highly sophisticated writing.
What prompted the idea of starting the site? “It started about two years ago. The community is missing a lot of real news that is going on. Many times, for example, things appear in the secular media but people cannot express their frustration. Here responses can be posted. The secular media distorts information to make the frum world look like meshugayim.”
Behind the scenes, however, numerous people are supportive of what they are doing. At times highly respected community leaders have forwarded information to this website. They have sent kudos to the owners as well. It has been verified that these e-mails and letters really came from community leaders.
What about Yeshiva World News? That website is run by one person, a Flatbush resident who prefers to remain anonymous, as well, but it seems most people already know who he is and he is not trying to keep it too secret. “E” is a bit more discriminating in the news that he sees fit to post. There are more human-interest stories that are posted on that site, too.
One Jewish media personality noted, “I have noticed that Yeshiva World News will rarely print the name of an individual if the information is negative. For example, in the high-profile cases of abusers, YWN never mentioned the names of those being accused. VIN News will be quicker to point out names.” This statement accurately conveys the philosophical differences between the two sites.
Are there differences in the readership that may be discerned from the comments posted on their sites? Comments at Yeshiva World News reflect a more Litvish readership than VIN News. Those that comment are generally supportive of the site but will at times find fault with the editorship of the site. To the credit of both Yeshiva World News and VIN News, they will publish intelligent comments even when those comments reflect negatively on the site.
Are there other sites that are attempting to bring news to the religious Jewish community? A new site based in Hewlett is up and coming. Keep an eye on it — it is called matzav.com.
enough of all this garbage let the jewish people strive to get better and better give chizuk that’s what we want and need from our rabbeim and mechachim its very easy to ban stop banning and lead the way!
Couldn’t agree more with the rabbi;
I’ve been around kiruv for about ten years and the fact that we have frum people interact with the so called no so frum or at risk we gain a tremendous amount.
yes i know whats racing thru your mind is whats with the frum boy who might catch a bit of the non frum side?
from what i”ve seen the opposite attracts
re the bans .the mishna says chchomim hizuharoo dvraichem shema mtocham yilmedu leshaker .where are the the kol kores reminding the klal not to use the arkaos to settle our disagreements.how about reminding ppl not to be involved in fraud ,what about chillul hashem.the last two kol korehs [lipa.nuchem rosenberg]only cheapend the title of manhig yisroel. also it has been brought to the forfront that most of these bans are spearheaded by an extreme minority of individuals who have the financial ability to pressure the signatories through shochad . what does the torah say about the power of shochad,yeaver ainai chachomim visalef divrei tzadikim.lets get back to the basics of tzedek tzedek tirdoiff.
The words of Rabbi Brod are wise and most logical. They are however based on the premise of an activity that is muttar. It seems that of late, some of the concerts, due to the venue, the hype and the general ambience and atmosphere may no longer be so clearly muttar. Once accepted Gedolim and Manhigim voice concern and say not to go, then for the man on the street it is definitely no longer muttar. Maybe the time has come to organize concerts in a time, olace and environment which addresses the concerns of those on whose shoulders rest the responsibility for the kedusha of Am Yisrael.
If we dont give our kids jewish music they will go to non jewish music.
how about more important matters like Sholom amongst ourselves
after 9:10 there really isn’t much more to be said. Except that where does the banning stop? I didn’t see any Kol Koreh against menphysically attacking women who dare to wander into no-go areas & aren’t dressed strictly according to the 17th century.
We are becoming Taliban.
for goodness sake why does everything have to be forbidden?! if you don’t give people a little room to relax and do things that are permissible, their yetzer haras freak out and then they get themselves into REAL trouble! please people, being frum is not about being miserable. let’s allow ourselves some “kosher fun” now and again.
again, here we go, every person who thinks he has enough brain in his mind to seek attention has an opinion on how to lead our generations thru the most exposed era, and all fun lovers agree with him, was this person known for most jews before he had to voice his opinion? absolutelly not. so please don’t teach the most prestigious gedolim that we still have on how to guide us, lets first hear your own credentials
Here’s my very humble opinion on these matters.
To begin with, the Torah says that we have to follow the leaders of your generation. This is undisputable. See Parshas Shoftim. So, assuming the Kol Korah’s are signed by the leaders of our generation, then I cannot see how we can wheedle out of this one.
There is no such thing as a “true leader” vs. a “not-so-true leader”. If there is room to maneuver with such theorizing, then we lose any and all possibility of ever following dictates of our leaders, as the person’s leadership status will always come into question – especially when it is to our detriment.
In my opinion, if we would rely on an individual’s decision with regards to Hilchos Treifus (i.e. you would rely on their Hashgocho), Hilchos Shabbos, Hilchos Niddah, and so on, then they are sufficiently deemed “leaders” for all intents and purposes. If we would rely on an individual to be our son’s or daughter’s Rebbes, Mashgichim, Teachers, and Menahalim, then we OBVIOUSLY consider them leaders. After all, we wouldn’t entrust our children to individuals who cannot make proper decisions on important delicate Chinuch-related matters.
Those individuals who question the bans and Kol Korahs (guilty as charged – sometimes) consider ourselves rational thinkers. Granted. We probably do indeed strive to be straight thinkers and to rationalize our thoughts and emotions. One of our biggest problems with these bans are the contradictions. This appears to be the primary concern on this matter. Why do you ban the concert and do not ban the child molesters? Why do you ban sheitels from India and do not ban the Rebbes who use the court systems to settle their disputes? etc. etc.
So, let’s rationalize this. Granted, we don’t necessarily have a satisfactory answer to our perhaps very legitimate questions, nevertheless, we, as rational people, do appreciate and strive to avoid contradictions. In that case the question arises, how can we rely on someone’s Hashgochoh and allow our children to attend their schools and yet question their leadership status? How do we rely on someone to be the Menahel of our Yeshivos and yet question their decision making abilities?
I will not profess to have an answer to my own questions. But I do think, if we wish to be truly honest with ourselves, that it requires a TRUE decent answer. The answer just may be that we’re totally wrong…
very few signers on kol koreh feel that they have an option . Askanim come with a draft and point to the bottom -“sign here” they say,or even worse they just leave the rav a message that they are signing him on “the” kol koreh.if the rav does not wanna sign nu nu they know how to get him, each sector has their own pressuring method.I would propose that any kol kore assuring something should only be done after a rabbinical meeting is held and notice to the involved is given so there side can be heard -only then should a kol koreh come out
It would be a lot more prefferable to listen to non-jewish music, than to attend these events which are mistakenly thought of as jewish.
This question why do they ban concerts etc. and not abusers or rebbes using the courts has a very simple answer. Abuse, fraud etc. are clearly banned by the torah, there are no gray areas however something like concerts which involve a seemingly mutar thing like singing are being banned mainly because of related issues such as taaruvos or tznius etc. which might not be clearly obvious. The rebbes who go to court I believe had a heter from a bais din which unfortunately might not take away the chilul hashem factor, but put yourself in their shoes if you were cheated out of a 100 million $ inheritance would you ignore it, or go to b”d & if the other party refused to come to b”d would you go home & twiddle you thumbs or use the heter the b”d gave you to go to court? I rest my case.
Also keep in mind that the institution of Rabbonus has been severely weakened in the eyes of the hamoyn am. Kol Korehs are a main culprit.
We still haven’t learned from the past? Go back to the ban against Chassidus in the late 1700s. Today, Chassidim have grown and they continue to spread chassidus throughout the world.
To moishe hirsch,
I’ll answer you because I will dan you l’caf zcus and take it you’re serious & not being sarcastic. Obviously these rabonnim hold it is ossur to go to a concert; but my point is they shouldn’t publicize it. I posted this comment by the other story on this website about Lipa and the camp. The reason I reposted it was because in this story you have a rav who holds it’s mutter.
The rabbonim should refrain from Kol korays that are not according to everybody- like to warn people they are eating treif.
That doesn’t mean they don’t have the right to say their opinion if someone asks them, but they should keep away from brodcasting their opinions for the klal in general. Let everyone ask their own Posek. Eylo v’eylo divrei elokim chaim!
Concerts are needed and a useful vehicle for kiruv. Find some other problem like libraries, malls, tiyulim, clothing stores….
To Leider and others;
Never in out history has the term “Gedolim” and “Leaders(of the generation)” been more abused than in our times.
How is it, that a “Rosh Yeshivah” that is followed by a few hundred students and their families, at best, beomes a GODOL HADOR? How is that person a leader of the 14 million Jews?
The Lubavitche Rebbe once addressed the issue of how should a person determine if someone is indeed a Godol.
He said that it is well known that the Gemara says taht the traits of a Jewish person is Rachmonim, Bayshonim, and Gomlie Chasodim (merciful, bashful and doer of kindness).
A “Godel” must be one who excels in thes theree traits, over and above the other people of the generations.
Please answer this question; Do these “gedolim” who issue these kol korehs, have they manifested and exhibited these three traits towards others, not only in their intimate circles, but to all of Klal Yisroel ( even Jews who may have a differant style of dress and background)?
That is the question. So before someone says we MUST listen to the “leaders” of the generation, lets make sure they are LLeaders by the standards of the Gemara, and not due to other mundane reasons.
To 2:32 by the Rebbe’s criteria, certainly many of these so called Gedolim Hador are definitely lacking in Rachmonos…some even encourage Sina against other Jews for having a different Shita in certain areas. Therefore, how can ANY Jew view them as a leader of the Jewish world? Of their own like-minded Chevra, maybe.
Meanwhile, we still have the problem of everything being assur. And then we complain about the kids.
To ENOUGH ALREADY,
Yasher Koach! Have a great Shabbos everyone!!!
Tell a short story – I was in the home of one of the ‘gdolim’ who bans the internet for his chasidim and others. HE HAS INTERNET and CABLE TV.
I asked him isn’t it inconsistent – he said ‘I know I can control my access’.
We have “gdolim” who are trying to out-frum the next “gdol” – this is not Halacha we are dealing with – this is insanity and phony and Talibani.
You people are fools! Wake up and smell the fresh kichel! This is a cancer which has to be uprooted. Ban these fake concert ban rabbis!
The basic philosophy of today’s Rabbinic “Gedeilim”:
If it moves, ban it.
If it stops, start a Kupat Tzedakah to collect on its behalf.