New York – Agudath Israel: Recent Exposure Of Child Molestation Has Encouraged Our Rabbis To Support Government Initiatives

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    New York – The recent rash of cases in which rabbis have allegedly molested young children going back decades has moved one group that usually bristles at government involvement in Orthodox schools to envision shifting its stance.

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    “Our general sense is that we’re much better off when government leaves us alone,” said David Zwiebel, executive vice president of Agudath Israel of America for government and public affairs. “But because of the sensitivity of this particular issue, I could see the possibility of our rabbis affirmatively encouraging schools to buy into the system, and even maybe affirmatively encouraging government to impose it on us.”

    Zwiebel was speaking specifically about a new law that will, for the first time, allow non-public schools to voluntarily take part in a program to fingerprint school employees for use in criminal background checks. But for Agudah, an umbrella organization of ultra-traditional Orthodox groups that seek a degree of insulation from the secular world, it was a striking statement.

    To be sure, Agudah contemplates no welcome mat for a mandatory government fingerprint program just yet. That would be “quite premature,” said Zwiebel. Agudah, he said, wants first to see how the state implements the voluntary law.

    But in an interview with The Jewish Week, Zwiebel, with whose organization many in Albany check first on legislation involving the Orthodox community, appeared to offer a wary road map to supporting greater oversight by the government on issues relating to sexual molestation of children.

    The pressure for increased government involvement has been building for years. It began with the shocking emergence earlier this decade of Catholic priests who, it turned out, had molested children under their care for decades, and had often been protected by their Church superiors.

    More recently, credible allegations have emerged here in New York against a small number of yeshiva rabbis said to have also sexually abused their students over several decades. The alleged victims — often now adults — have also charged that the yeshivas and rabbinic supervisors were informed about their teachers’ conduct but did nothing, or even protected them.

    Now, state Assembly Member Dov Hikind (D-Brooklyn), who has become deeply involved in this issue, speaks of hearing “hundreds” of reports of rabbinic sexual abuse — reports that appear to him to be credible. This week, speaking at a conference on this controversy, Hikind for the first time numbered these reports in the “thousands.”

    Slowly, and somewhat erratically, the state legislature has begun to take up the question of legal reforms to address this situation. The fingerprinting law passed last year will permit non-public schools to voluntarily take part in a program that is already mandatory for all public schools.

    But some lawmakers hope to go further next year, with legislation to make non-public school participation mandatory. They also want to pass a bill that would make clergy and non-public school officials “mandated reporters” — individuals required by law to report to the authorities any information or evidence they receive that a child has been abused or molested in a school setting. Public school officials are already required to do so, thanks to an education law passed in 2000 that excluded the private school sector.

    Another bill, now stalled by differences between the Assembly and Senate, would extend the statute of limitations for criminal prosecution of molesters and for civil suits to be filed against them. Presently, prosecutors cannot go after a child molester once the child in question reaches age 23. And a child victim of sexual molestation must sue his molester — or a school that fails in its duty to protect him — for civil damages by between one and six years after he turns 18, depending on the nature of the allegation. But experts say child victims can take many years, or even decades, after they reach adulthood to process what was done to them and act on it.

    Agudath Israel does not oppose any of these measures in principle, Zwiebel said. But God is in the details. And one red flag for the group is disparate treatment.

    “It’s never been our position that non-public schools should be treated differently than public schools,” when it comes to protecting children, he said. “But our position is that they should not be singled out.”

    This led Agudath Israel to vigorously oppose a 2003 proposal that would have required members of the clergy and certain categories of religious educators and administrators to go to the authorities with any information they had received about child abuse by other clergy over the last 20 years. Inspired by the continuing revelations coming from the Catholic Church, the bill singled out the duty of these religious workers to report on their colleagues — but not on sexual abuse from other sources.

    In a memo then to leaders of the state Assembly and Senate, Zwiebel denounced the legislation as “patently unconstitutional” for its “apparent assumption that religious functionaries, more than any other element of society, are inherently suspect — and should therefore be subject to special legal scrutiny and reporting requirements — regarding allegations of child abuse.”

    Since then, critics have frequently denounced Agudath Israel’s stand as obstructionist and cited its opposition to this bill as evidence of an intent to shield rabbinic abusers. Condemnations on the Internet against the group have been especially angry and intense.

    But Zwiebel said that if the Legislature were to introduce a bill that simply included non-public school officials in the duty to report evidence of abuse of students in a school setting, as public school officials already must do, “At a minimum, I am pretty certain we’d advise our friends in the Legislature we don’t oppose this.”

    As for efforts to expand the statute of limitations, whether criminally or civilly, “I don’t imagine we’ll oppose any of that” either, Zwiebel said. “Whether we would affirmatively push it, I can’t answer.”

    Indeed, legislation on this appears to be stuck between the State Senate and the Assembly. And according to a spokesperson for Senate Majority Leader Dean Skelos (R-Nassau County), it is opposition from the Catholic Church and the insurance industry that is playing a role.

    The Assembly’s bill would significantly extend both the criminal and civil statute of limitations for child sex abuse going into the future. But the Democratic-dominated Assembly is determined to also give those now beyond the civil statute of limitations a key back into the courts. Its bill would establish a one-year “window” for adults with allegations of childhood abuse to file suit, regardless of when the abuse took place.

    Skelos’ spokesperson voiced concern about this provision, citing the potential difficulties of obtaining evidence in very old cases. The Senate, he noted, has passed three different bills to eliminate or extend the criminal statute of limitation. But it has refused to pass the Assembly’s bill. The Assembly, in turn, has held fast against the Senate’s bill.

    Meanwhile, the regulations have yet to be published for implementing the law passed last year that would allow non-public schools to opt in on fingerprinting and criminal background checks of its staff. Zwiebel made clear that Agudah’s willingness to accept a bill to make this mandatory for non-public schools will depend on how the voluntary program goes.

    One regulation under consideration, he related, would institute a “roach motel” principle: Once a school chooses to opt in, it will not be allowed to opt out.

    “I’m troubled by that,” he said. “It doesn’t sound like wise public policy.”

    Another proposed rule would mandate that a school opting into the system must require every employee to be fingerprinted, without exception.

    “I don’t understand that part of it,” he said. “It would allow us no discretion to [exempt], say, certain veterans about whom there have never been any questions from a criminal background check.”

    Still, he said, “I’m not necessarily implying those two rules would push us away. I’d like to know exactly what the details are.”

    In many cases, Zwiebel said, Agudah’s views have been misrepresented. He pointed, among other things, to an error in a recent Jewish Week story — since acknowledged — that stated the group opposed a mandatory fingerprinting law and another to make yeshiva officials mandated reporters.

    But referring to disturbing exposes that have appeared in this paper and elsewhere, he said, “Some of the anguish and pain that has come in the last few years, though uncomfortable, promotes consciousness of a problem that’s been in the shadows. So, though our views have been misrepresented, I can’t [the critics] are bad people. They obviously care a lot about this issue.”

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    52 Comments
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    political  analyst
    political analyst
    16 years ago

    it’s amazing 2 yrs ago- if you even suggested the thought- you were branded a sheigetz, how times have changed with nothing really changed

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    16 years ago

    Two years ago? R’Nuchem Rosenberg was put into a chairem just months ago for talking about it.

    Lets bring back R’Nuchem now.

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    16 years ago

    Kudos to Reb Nuchme Rosenberg and i belive just for the picture they will include the rabbnim so it should look like they lifted a finger in this issue to give them a very nice way out lets call it a bailout for the rabbnim and somethink major will happen here and when Dov says thousands i belive him

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    16 years ago

    Yes its time to come out and give Reb Nuchem Rosenberg the credit he deserves in the goisha world this would of been the Nuchme Rosenberg Legislation and go down in history as so and what was done to him is i belive the biggest sham in the chassidish history and i hope he will be remberd as a hero and somebody who stopped the molestaion of thousands of kids and only God knows what problems those thousands are going true and thier famils as a result shame on the rabbnim shame on them yes we all know it nobody will say it public because they are afraid thank god for this site which in real life deserve tons of credit

    Simcha
    Simcha
    16 years ago

    What a weak statement by Zwiebel “I could see the possibility of our rabbis affirmatively encouraging schools to buy into the system, and even maybe affirmatively encouraging government to impose it on us.”

    Why not say what you really think. This sounds like something Barak Obama would say..maybe, perhaps, we could possibly? Gimme a break and take a stance like a man.

    mccain palin 08
    mccain palin 08
    16 years ago

    shocking

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    16 years ago

    “Jhonny” come lately. Leadership or taking the lead is a dead and forgotten art form for these strutting quacks.

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    16 years ago

    We are sad to inform the public of the demise of the Agudah which had taken place sometime in the distant past. Said departed has long decomposed yet surprisingly still emits a most repulsive stink. Agudah is survived by some distant oppurtunists who have post mortem attached to the carcass for revolting selfgratification. Body will not be laid to rest until local authorities decontaminate the corpse and rid it of the leeches and maggots who have firmly embedded themselves into the rotten cadaver.

    KANOY
    KANOY
    16 years ago

    Let’s not blame EVERYTHING on the RAH BONNIM (even though it their fault). Let’s take the pressure off the Agudah, the Moetzes (since non of this ever happens in Boro Park). Let’s go where it will do the MOST GOOD. LET’S GO DIRECTLY TO THE POLICE,THE DISTRICT ATTORNEY, AND THE MEDIA.

    AH GUT G’BENTCHED YAR TO K’LALL YISROEL

    cynic
    cynic
    16 years ago

    its a new age we are all struggling with this new freedom that america provides. change comes slow instead of bashing the rabbis why dont you open a discussion with them. i think people would be surprised at how they do listen just not excatly what you tell them. speakin most certainly makes a difference.

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    16 years ago

    Victims HAVE tried to speak to the rabbonim. That was the last most traumatic part of the sordid crime. When you finally unload to a rabbi and then get the cold shoulder or the fraudulent loshon hora bit you end up with this type of anger and cynisism.

    Chacham Mah Nishtana
    Chacham Mah Nishtana
    16 years ago

    The statute of limitation is there for one reason, to protect the innocent. Do you remember where you were on Sep 25 1988, and what happened that day? Can your witnesses remember?

    There will be almost no way disprove false charges!

    The correct method would be to better educate the public, so they would come forward before the statute of limitation, and I think that has started to happen.

    cynic
    cynic
    16 years ago

    thats when a bat comes in handy. this isnt just talk a guy tried to touch my friend as kid and i broke his nose with a bat. thank go-d im a big guy. i was then 200 pounds. i went after the rabbi to. i still scare him any time i see him.

    I survived
    I survived
    16 years ago

    I was molested for five years by my own father and went to multiple Rabonnim, in Belgium, UK and Monsey.. most of them didn’t believe me and told me go away from my presence you shikse ! They didn’t help and were not interested to listen… i cried and begged and asked for help at this point for my helpless sisters… they didn’t care.

    The only one that cared was a awesome person in Belgium, he is the reason i am still alive today. I wish i could mention his name on this blog because he is an Angel that saved my life. Though his life was ruined in return by my father. I am not sure what my father did to him just like he did to other people that tried to help me. Even that Rabbi in Belgium later on gave up and only the courts in the UK kept me safe and cuffed my father when he tried to snatch me again at age 16-17. So, that being said: only the LAW can step in and do something if you are on time on reporting the crime. Why does a Jewish Child molester deserve better treatment than a non Jew? They are committing the same heinous crime!!!! And only the law will stop them….. my father still thinks that he is above the law : (

    torah yid
    torah yid
    16 years ago

    the aguda is a dead org. they do nothing but making money, & no one asked them how we should be mechanech our children, if rabbi zwiebel & hikind want to have the same end like rosenberg they should keep up

    cynic
    cynic
    16 years ago

    torah yid you are full of crap. because of people like you people keep getting molested. so you are a partner in crime with all of these people. wich makes you a child molester.

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    16 years ago

    GOOD MORNING!

    they backtracked on their longstanding policy by pretending they never had it. whatever.

    mitoch she lo lishmah bah lishmah. perhaps they are beginnning to see the error of their ways.

    too bad the twerski embarassment had to happen first before these chunyuks finally woke up.

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    16 years ago

    Eventhough Nuchem Rosenberrg is a nut case who actualy “loves” to deal with these type of issues (V’DAL)- but I agree that in this case he scored…

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    16 years ago

    Mandatory background checks are great, if there are reported backgrounds to check against. But as the frum community would never report issues in the first place, background checks will be effectively useless. On the contrary, they’ll allow rabbonim and administrators to wipe their hands clean saying “but we did a background check!”. For this to work it needs A) mandatory background checks, B) enforced mandatory reporting of all issues, C) mandatory prison sentences for rabonim and school administrators and the like who are aware of, and ignore, offenses.

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    16 years ago

    No, Nuchem is a tzaddik. You are the pervert for thinking anyone who takes a stand must have an ulterior motive. Is this how you too run your life.

    I survived
    I survived
    16 years ago

    cynic Says:

    its a new age we are all struggling with this new freedom that america provides. change comes slow instead of bashing the rabbis why dont you open a discussion with them. i think people would be surprised at how they do listen just not excatly what you tell them. speakin most certainly makes a difference.

    ———————————————–

    Trust me, you would not speak the same if your own child was molested yourself…. unless you ara a molestor too !

    torah yid
    torah yid
    16 years ago

    cynic, use your brain a littel, it looks like you never read the news, in public schools were they take finger prints & all sexual education there is no molestation? ha?

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    16 years ago

    “Our general sense is that we’re much better off when government leaves us alone”

    The government has left us alone regarding the responsibility of protecting our children from child molesters, and look where we are? How can he say that “we’re much better off” if they don’t pass legislation? Can it get any worse than this?

    cynic
    cynic
    16 years ago

    i survived.

    i dont ask you to forgive the rabbis that mistreated you i would even encourage you to publisize their names. im saying there are good people out there that do take care of these issues. as i witnnesed first hand by my friend. i cant say i understand the pain you went through. . i belive the fact that u seem to be a functionig member of society speaks volumes about what great person you are. despite all your trials.

    cynic
    cynic
    16 years ago

    by i survived.
    Trust me, you would not speak the same if your own child was molested yourself…. unless you ara a molestor too

    thankyou for insulting me. was not putting down what you went through. i wasnt making an excuse for rabbis who let thing slide. those people should be put in the same category as a molester. my potint was that there are good people in the world and we need to support them. i forgive the insult because i cant imagine what growing up that way must be.

    ANONYMOUS
    ANONYMOUS
    16 years ago

    its about time that the government should intervene if the rabonim don’t do anything, credit also to dov hikind for going on without no fear its a big mitzva

    formely
    formely
    16 years ago

    I survived Says,

    sadly, you are one of the lucky ones that had someone to help you, most of the times no one has the ***** to do anything and leave it in the hands of the robonum who they know will do nothing or even worse threatened you and protect the molesters.

    When will people learn- look at many cases when the molester was only stopped when the police got involved. How long will it take for the evidence to take hold, to get through your blinders, or blind believes that robonuim can solve every single problem facing the community.

    It remind me of a joke there was a flood and people where stuck on the roof, I holy man was praying for g-d to help, a boat came by the man said No I am waiting for g-ds help, another boat comes by, same thing. then a helicopter comes by, no I am waiting for G-d to rescue me. eventually he dies and goes up to heaven and meets g-d, and says I prayed to you, believed in you, and you did nothing. g-D said what do you want from me I sent two boats, and a helicopter you decided not to take my offer of help.

    Maybe the police and the da is the help hasem is sending you, it seems so since they know and have stopped molesters

    formely
    formely
    16 years ago

    While everybody is bashing the Agudath Israel, what is the position of the chassidesha rabonioun, or heridem, like bobov, satmer, beltz, and the many others I wonder

    I survived
    I survived
    16 years ago

    I am not insulting anyone, yet I am blaming anyone that can say: ltes discuss nicely, lets keep it quiet because it’s a hilul hashem ….. d you know that it’s a child life at stake ? their sanity, health, and even their life …??
    No talk needed !! listen to your children and act !!! ACT NOW !!

    Rabbomim will cover up, and my father was a RABBI, Rosh Yeshiveh himself … who was to believe me ??? no one ! He told me that he could swear in front of a sefer torah that it’s all lies because God allows to swear a lie in front of sefer torah for Sholom Bayis purposes … he told me no one would believe me and sadly he was right, as my mother didn’t even believe me …

    Father < I hope you are reading this, I hope that you are scared that Justice is coming and the truth is surfacing , even your own younger brother told me what you did to him while living in Williamsburg…. I wish I cold shout your name here so everyone Knows you ! the frimme yid hiding in Monsey … hiding behind white socks and shtreimel while you destroyed a family of EIGHT !!! but guess what ! you didn’t destroy me, I have learned to become a good person and be NOTHING like you …

    I Survived
    I Survived
    16 years ago

    So to all of you who don’t understand because you HAVE NOT FELT THE PAIN, please do us victims a favor and just SHUT UP because you have no idea what you are speaking of and you are ruining chances for children that are helpless against those DEAMONS.

    My life’s ultimate goal is to help helpless children in these types of situation around the world … the worst thing any HUMAN BEING can do is stop assistance for the needed victims because of their own selfish reasons and pride due to Religion and self image…

    No one will know what it took for me to stay sane, to regroup, to build myself and my life after I picked up the broken pieces … I have not healed and I will never heal because I cry for my dear siblings and for every helpless child every day of my life…

    Ask yourself:

    ARE YOU HUMAN ENOUGH TO CARE?

    Oy Gevald
    Oy Gevald
    16 years ago

    My gut reaction is “Mazel Tov!” It’s about time.
    Agudah’s headline is enough for me to say that. However, I will need time to evaluate precisely what the extended article points at.

    Gerrorist
    Gerrorist
    16 years ago

    Today at 10:38 AM torah yid Says: the aguda is a dead org. they do nothing but making money, & no one asked them how we should be mechanech our children, if rabbi zwiebel & hikind want to have the same end like rosenberg they should keep up

    ———————————–

    Shame on you for lumping hikind and that putz zwiebel together, “aguda is a dead organisation” your damn right, but that hikind is trying to dictate to anyone on the upbringing of our precious little ones you are wrong, he is out there to help us protect our children for it seems we don’t know how to do it on our own.

    BTW, if you think that hikind will go down like the tzaddik R’nuchem, think again, he has way to much info on the rabbonim who heard first hand stories from victims and all the victims got were at best the cold shoulder, so if he feels that this is the end, he will blow this wide open, exposing the rabbonim for the scum they are, it will make the catholic church look like kids play (no pun intended)

    all the best torah yid, it is people like you that have made our children prime targets.

    yiddishe bubby
    yiddishe bubby
    16 years ago

    huh, this statement comes too late and is too weak, NOW they are waking up where were they before, sometimes I am so ashamed of our so called leaders.

    bigwheeel
    bigwheeel
    16 years ago

    As Atty. David Zweibel pointed out, the Agudath Israel organization does not oppose fingerprinting for ALL employees of a school. What could become problematic with the [proposed] Legislative package, is the part about making the employees “Mandatory Reporters”! At some point, this law could be turned on its head (in a way abused), where the Law-enforcement authorities would focus more on the [failure] of the “Mandat.-reporters” than on helping the victims or the [future] prevention of such abuse! As an example we can look at the situation in [Pediatric] Emergency Rooms in Hospitals. Where, good and caring families who bring in a child for Emergency treatment are being hassled (“Harassed” is a better word) for no good reason. Even though the increased scrutiny (in hospitals) has come after many horrific cases of child-abuse (physical) and neglect, the increased [bureaucratic] power given to front-line employees has resulted in focusing more on the peripheral issue/s, rather than on curing the child!

    mark
    mark
    16 years ago

    david zweibel i love you. even though i am not a great fan of aguda,you did the right thing.after meeting you in washington last week and politley argued with you on this matter you have made a great step forward in protecting our children, a sweet and zisen new year mark mayer appel

    anon
    anon
    16 years ago

    I guess Agudah can’t sit back and sleep if Dov Hikind is doing something to help the public in this issue…………………… OH YES !!!

    Nechamah
    Nechamah
    16 years ago

    There is disagreement, some vehement, about to whom to go for help and for ending this horrible situation. What other possible ways can we come up with to not only help victims, not only to end the specfic perpetrators’ abuse of others, but also to end the cycle, to make it clear this is absolutely not the Torah way? INstead of bashing Aguda or any other Jew who goes to the state because the rabbonim and Jewish community are not helping or ending the horror, please come up with a constructive way we all can do this, hopefully together.

    chochem says
    chochem says
    16 years ago

    aguda has been and will continue to be a joke
    i have letters from them and to them for years that have asked them to hget involved
    id like to see them publih which names on the moetzes gave them the go ahead to have teachers fingerprinted

    anonymous
    anonymous
    16 years ago

    Passing the legislation proposed in this article, educating children about inappropriate touching, educating parents that going to the police in such cases is not messira, exposing past abusers and reporting the worst of these cases to the police. How’s that for a start?

    Exp
    Exp
    16 years ago

    Dear friends,
    It’s about time to wake up and realize that if you don’t do any thing about it, you are guilty too. You will never be able to say “Yadenu lo sofchu es hadam haze”
    Wake up, teach your children to be careful, make sure your kids are comfortable to tell you if someone molests them, if you know some one is a molester turn them into law enforcement. If you will not, you are equal as the molester.

    BMG coffee room
    BMG coffee room
    16 years ago

    torah yid Says: cynic, use your brain a littel, it looks like you never read the news, in public schools were they take finger prints & all sexual education there is no molestation? ha?
    ===========================================================
    torah yid . If i were you i would watch out what your saying . To most people you sound like an enabler or a molester yourself.
    Bringing proof from a public school is no proof because no system is fool proof . even if one person is saved from being molested , the finger print idea is commendable and well worth it

    cynic
    cynic
    16 years ago

    i think i may step foot in the bmg after that statement