Jerusalem – Gedolim in Bnei Brak have come out against going to hotels for Pesach. A proclamation signed by Rav Y. B. Wozner, Rav Yehuda Silman, Rav Shimon Baadani, Rav Menachem M. Shafran and other rabbonim, states: Trying to enrich themselves at the expense of the chareidi public, businesses are churning out propaganda, a plethora of articles and brainwashing to turn the holy days of Pesach into a “routine vacation” at various hotels in the Dead Sea and Tiverya.
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“We want to elucidate,” say the rabbonim, “that the holy days of Pesach were set aside for one generation to pass on faith in Hashem and His Torah to the next generation. The home atmosphere, in which parents sit together with their dear children, is unique for accomplishing this.”
The proclamation also mentions that newspapers and advertising agencies conceal the fact that every hotel room has television and films. They also cover up the fact that singers perform in the evening, whose negative ramifications are well known from the past. Hotels also have other harmful influences which are detrimental to adults and children alike, and which contravene accepted standards of tznius and kedusha.
The rabbis also state that claims of the level of kashrus in the hotels being akin to the level of kashrus in families’ homes, are not even true during the year round, and all the more so during Pesach. Concerning those who have no choice but to be in a hotel for Pesach and the rest of the year, the rabbis say they should seek the counsel of reliable and responsible rabbonim.
The rabbonim conclude their proclamation by calling on the public to maintain the tradition of previous generations and stringently upholding kashrus, tznius, and kedusha all year round and all the more so on Pesach. They should not be persuaded by people who for the sake of lucre are cavalierly bringing the generation to ruin.
If I gave a deposit can I get a refund plus the rest of my payments?
How about a Motel? Days Inn? Motel 6?
Kol Hakovod to these rabbonim (who I agree with very rarely). This whole issue of taking the ganz mishpacha to Miami, the Carribean, Arizona or Eilat for Yom tov has gone too far. Every day there are ads promising lavish buffets and entertainment (with an occasional dvar torah thrown in for appearences.) They compete with one another to offer the most extensive menus with famous cooks (although under the most heilege hasgacha for mehadrim) but also stress the golf courses, swimming pools (separate hours of course). What ever happened to staying home amd making the sedorim….
Does this mean that these “Gedolim” are going to stay home and help their wives and daughters cook and clean for the holiday? I doubt it. How convenient that whether they stay home or go to a hotel they still get served.
This psak would carry a whole lot more weight if these “Gedolim” actually did any work of preparation for Pesach other than making it more difficult for their wives.
I wish someone would say that in the US too. I have friends that have worked as Mashgichim in these hotel kitchens on Pesach and have told me some real horror stories not to mention the overall multiple fashion shows that occur at each meal. But hey, if everyone in the five-towns and flatbush max that credit card and go because making Pesach at home just isn’t fashionable anymore than go for it. And as soon as they come back run to those shiurim and get right back on track from the hedonistic and decadent vacation you just had.
They are just jelous. Given the opportunitty. Mnay of these Raboooonim would go.
1) Good Morning, Rabbonim, where were you while this was going on all these years?
2) Where are the other gedolim on this issue?
3) Why aren’t the Rabbonim in America saying the same thing about the Chevra and such?
4) What about other Yomim Tovim? While you don’t have the Kashrus issue about Pesach specifically, you still have every other problem mentioned.
#2 how do you know what rabbonim do in there own homes-do i know what you do in your home? #5are you sure it isn’t YOU who’s jealous?what kind of hashkafah do you give over to your children with an attitude like yours?
Here in Montreal, The Dzibo Dayan took out two pages in the local newsflash, warning people about the serious kashruth and spiritual concerns. I am impressed that he did it. I for sure cost him a pretty penny. Plus, he will only get fleck for it from his mispallelim and rest of Montreal.
I hate to say it, but they are not wrong.
I have worked Pesach hotels in the past, and will never do so again.
1. They are nearly impossible to keep kosher, no matter what they promise.
2. Though you may think all the guest will be people of your observance level, and you choose the most kosher non-gebrochts place you can find, you will find the people in the next room going to the pool and walking through the halls half naked.
You will find that mechitza at the poor violated every day of chol hamoed.
You will find that though they tell you it is non-gebrochts, that is only while in the pot in the kitchen. But, you must assume the bowls and plates are gebrochts.
Look around you during soup, and watch people break their matza into the soup.
That bowl is now non-gebrochts, and will be your bowl tomorrow.
Also remember, in many, many families, no matter how frum they are, there is frequently an Uncly Morris or Aunt Myrna. You know them. They are “Not that religious.”… “We are good Jews, we give to Israel, and buy bonds, but are not fanatic, you know.” They can create havoc with regular kashrus as well as pesach kashrus.
3. The kashering of the kitchens are not up to par for Pesach. Remember, the rules of Pesach are not the same as regular kashrus laws. The rest of the year, you have “botail beshishim” but pesach is a “MaSheWho”
I have NEVER seen range hoods properly kashered. EVER
There is NO Way to properly kasher those commercial dish washers. Most do not do it, we bring in a new one…. but it becomes non-gebrochts the first time a piece of matza goes through it.
Now, let’s forget gerochts/non-gebrochts. Some will say that does not effect kailim, others eat gebrochts anyway.
But, regular kashrus.
It is very hard to get mashgichim for Pesach.
There is seldom a watching mashgiach in the dining room.
This means, the lady who pulls out that small packet of her favorite artificial sweetner from her pocket and drops it into her coffee or tea of fleishig dishes just created a problem, since many of those are dairy.
Also, most do not have hechsherim for Pesach.
Also, will the caterer bring his own wait staff, or use the hotel’s?
If they are using the hotel’s (most cases) that waiter wants to please the customer, since he/she wants that big tip at the end of the week. He often then looks the other way, when Aunt Myrna pulls food from her bag to eat, since she is “I am not that fanatic. As long as it is not bread, I think it is okay.”
Or Uncle Morris asks for something the waiter knows was put away and not to be used until after Pesach. He WANTS to please Uncle Morris.
Remember, if he is caught, he gets yelled at.
If he follows the rabbi’s rules, he loses his $200 tip, or whatever they are tipping today for a 9-day stay.
He slips Uncle Morris what he asked for.
Or, one place I worked, on the 2nd day of Choel HaMoed, I happened to re-check the cleaner they used on the dishes. It seems they ran out, and used a different dish cleaning solution. It was certified OU kosher….. but pure chometz!
But, much worse than the food problems are the “Kashrus of the Nefesh” problems.
What I have seen at some places, is beyond mentioning here.
I was always frum, but I have gradually moved from Mod Orth Liberal, to Mod Orth Machmir, and will not take those jobs any more… Now I know better.
Kol HaKavod to these rabbanim.
maybe we should stop going to restaurants too because its just in the spirit of a family to sit with other families and eat a meal. maybe we should stop shopping at a grocery store because its also not in good spirit. perhaps we should stop having plays in schools because after all our grandparents never had plays in their schools
I was a mashgiach in a hotel in California around 9 years ago, I remember they ran out of grape juice the first night, and sent one of the non jewish workers to the local supermarket and he brought back 5 cases of manashevits grape juice, half of the hotel was non kosher, and the chefs of the non kosher part would keep entering to kosher (sometimes holding a treif ingrediant) part to retrieve items that they forgot.
if you must go to a hotel, at least make sure that the whole hotel is kosher. otherwise…
the leaders of our generation travel to these lavish places
If you are home for pesach, have a ‘chag koosher v’soomayach’.
If you are in the hotel for Pesach, have a ‘Zeesen Pesach’ ( kosher ? probably not).
That is what my Mashgiach friend tells me all the time. ( He never went to a hotel for Pesach).
I chas vshulem will NOT criticize those big gedoylim when they make such an announcement….They know better then we do and get more inside information then we klal get…I just want to make a point that there are many families who just can NOT deal with making yom tov for many diffrent reasons and have NO other choice just to leave their home and make their yom tov in a Hotel….Of course those very big fancy places with all kinds of programs and entartainment is not made for those people but there is NO other place for them to go to…..Let the Rabunim set up a catering hall in their communities with a Kosher Lepesach staff and kitchen and make it possible for those people to stay home for Yom Tov….
this is what they worry about Jews around the world have a lot bigger problems then this they really need to address. They are always bashing Jewish music its like are stuck in the middle ages.
Despite the horror stories, there are plenty of hotels that really are 100% kosher and mehudar, and for those who can afford it there’s no reason not to go with the whole family and have a relaxed yomtov. The big argument against Pesach hotels, to my mind, is that those who go every year never teach their children how to make Pesach. What will the children do, if they can’t afford a hotel? Will it become a necessity rather than a luxury, ch”v? For that reason, some people I know alternate years – one year at home and the next at a hotel. The kids can learn how to make Pesach every two years just as easily as every year, while making it easier on everybody in the “away” years.
How many of these “gedolim” have ever mopped a floor, cleaned out a closet, or baked a kishkah for the sedorim. They didn’t get to be “gedolim” based on their cleaning skills (which is beneath them literally and figuratively). If one of the heilege rebbitzins also signed this proclamation, it would have had much more credibility.
#2 what a mechutzef yoiu had better be careful, there is a got in himmel and he knows who you are. these are our poskaei hadr tzddikum of this generation and you have the termity to talk like taht and put hypehns around the word gedolim. i can gaurantee you’ll get yours if you dont go and ask mechila from them !!!
I am a middle aged woman who looks forward to Pesach every year. I do not go to hotels. I don’t even go to other people’s homes for a meal on Pesach! (Isn’t that what we were taught by our parents?) Yes, we work hard, but most of us who make Pesach at home get great satisfaction out of taking out our Pesach pots & pans and beautiful dishes and preparing all the delicious recipes that were handed down by our mothers and grandmothers.
reply to #7
What you’re saying is irrelevant. It does not apply to every hotel and it does not apply to every caterer or to every Rav Hamachshir. WHile you mention things that have happened or can happen, it doesn’t mean they will. Lets go through it.
1. They are nearly impossible to keep kosher, no matter what they promise. YOUR OPINION, GREATER AND MORE CHASHUV PEOPLE THAN YOU HAVE GONE TO HOTELS
2. Though you may think all the guest will be people of your observance level, and you choose the most kosher non-gebrochts place you can find, you will find the people in the next room going to the pool and walking through the halls half naked.
You will find that mechitza at the poor violated every day of chol hamoed.
You will find that though they tell you it is non-gebrochts, that is only while in the pot in the kitchen. But, you must assume the bowls and plates are gebrochts.
Look around you during soup, and watch people break their matza into the soup.
That bowl is now non-gebrochts, and will be your bowl tomorrow. YOU WILL FIND HALF NAKED PEOPLE IN THE HALLS??? IRRELEVANT POINT TO THOSE WHO EAT GEBRUCHTS.
Also remember, in many, many families, no matter how frum they are, there is frequently an Uncly Morris or Aunt Myrna. You know them. They are “Not that religious.”… “We are good Jews, we give to Israel, and buy bonds, but are not fanatic, you know.” They can create havoc with regular kashrus as well as pesach kashrus.
3. The kashering of the kitchens are not up to par for Pesach. Remember, the rules of Pesach are not the same as regular kashrus laws. The rest of the year, you have “botail beshishim” but pesach is a “MaSheWho”
I have NEVER seen range hoods properly kashered. EVER
There is NO Way to properly kasher those commercial dish washers. Most do not do it, we bring in a new one…. but it becomes non-gebrochts the first time a piece of matza goes through it.
Now, let’s forget gerochts/non-gebrochts. Some will say that does not effect kailim, others eat gebrochts anyway.
But, regular kashrus.
It is very hard to get mashgichim for Pesach.
There is seldom a watching mashgiach in the dining room.
This means, the lady who pulls out that small packet of her favorite artificial sweetner from her pocket and drops it into her coffee or tea of fleishig dishes just created a problem, since many of those are dairy.
Also, most do not have hechsherim for Pesach.
Also, will the caterer bring his own wait staff, or use the hotel’s?
If they are using the hotel’s (most cases) that waiter wants to please the customer, since he/she wants that big tip at the end of the week. He often then looks the other way, when Aunt Myrna pulls food from her bag to eat, since she is “I am not that fanatic. As long as it is not bread, I think it is okay.”
Or Uncle Morris asks for something the waiter knows was put away and not to be used until after Pesach. He WANTS to please Uncle Morris.
Remember, if he is caught, he gets yelled at.
If he follows the rabbi’s rules, he loses his $200 tip, or whatever they are tipping today for a 9-day stay.
He slips Uncle Morris what he asked for. THANKS FOR THE HALACHAD SHIUR….JUST RESEARCH AND TRUST THE RAV HAMACHSHIR
Or, one place I worked, on the 2nd day of Choel HaMoed, I happened to re-check the cleaner they used on the dishes. It seems they ran out, and used a different dish cleaning solution. It was certified OU kosher….. but pure chometz!
But, much worse than the food problems are the “Kashrus of the Nefesh” problems.
What I have seen at some places, is beyond mentioning here.
I was always frum, but I have gradually moved from Mod Orth Liberal, to Mod Orth Machmir, and will not take those jobs any more… Now I know better. NOT A PROBLEM IN EVERY HOTEL AND BESIDES THAT IS AN INDIVIDUALS DECISION BASED ON HIS/HER PREFERENCE.
#15 your leaders of ‘your’ generation are not my leaders. my leaders, like rav wosner, rav eliashav etc those kind of leaders done go out of their dalet ames shel halascha.
#18 touch up on you reading comprihention.
If you people had seen the kitchens where you eat out, you would never eat there again!!!!!
There should be no discussion on this subject
all. every Yid has to make own din vecheshbon, some people find Pessach very difficult, they want to spend quality time with familes, some have health issues, others have family issues but what ever the scenario every Yid is entitled to spend Pessach as he sees for his family. Regarding Hotels, every evening we attend weddings in various kosher halls with hundreds & hundreds of attendees, it is difficult to keep track of the kitchen, yet we trust the caterer & mashgaich & we EAT. let us work on Ahavas Yisroel & let everyone wish each other a Chag Kosher Vasameach wherever one celebrates Pessach. Lashana Haba Biyerushalyim Habnuyah
I have read all posts and I wish to add my two senses, if I may.
I am strictly orthodox but a clean-shaven , modern Jew who had a decent Yeshiva upbringing.
I have friends and relatives that go to Hotels for Pesach and others who don’t go.
I eat ‘gebrokts’; that was our custom from home. There is absolutely nothing wrong with eating ‘gebrokts’, the Shulchan Aruch does not find it important to discuss it. Many great Gedolim eat it (their custom). They say over that the Chasam Sofer a”h when marrying Rav Akiva Eiger’s daughter insisted (T’nay Kesubah) that she makes Mazo-Balls for Seder night. It is basically a hasidic custum and who wishes to follow it, fine – so be it. But it’s only their custom.
I have a close friend who does not eat gebrokts and he goes to a hotel with the extended family. Some of the family members do eat gebrokts and several of them find it quite acceptable to ‘brok’ their matzah into the soup or coffee; despite the fact that the cater is labelled as ‘non-gebrokts’ and insists that guests abide by it.
Now for those of you who find this behavior acceptable; keep going to hotels and close your eyes when this happens. But those who take “yiddishe minhagim” seriously, think again before signing up for the Exodus from home.
Stories about problems in the hotel kitchens are in abundance (the caterers will NEVER reveal any instances). I heard this from first-hand reports from Mashgichim. These problems do not have to be regarding Pesach, they can also pertain Chilul Shabbos and more. Pesach only multiplies the problems as the Mashgichim cannot be everywhere all the time.
I am NOT here to knock or discredit any caterer; most are surely honest and correct with Halacha, but problems always arise (my gues is over 90% of times during a Pesach season). The larger the crowd the more suseptible for mishaps.
Regarding the “admosphere” of a home where a father gives over ot his son the tradition; those who go to hotels don’t seem to care for that. Their comfort is more of importance to them.
Chag Samea’ch.
Anyone who spends several thousand dollars to spend yom tov at “one of those HEIMESHE FRUM HOTELS”, deserves what they get and should stay home and eat their schvuga’s kugel. These places are generally run down, overpriced and the service is farshtunkene. Better to enjoy the yom tovim the way our parents and grandparents did in Europe and teach the yinglach how to clean the house, cook and prepare for the sedorim.
The Tourisim Bureau in EY just voted to put the signatories of this ill-timed proclamation in charem. With foreign tourism down by 30 percent since the Gaza war and many hotels laying off their employees, why would these heilege rabbonim deliberatley try to sabatoge what would otherwise be one of the most important weeks of the year for the hotel industry.
Every kitchen has problems…. including your own. If you have children, there have been problems in your own kitchen that you don’t know about. If you have people clean your kitchen (goyim or yidden), you have had kashrus problems in your kitchen you don’t know about. I can be pretty certain that the workmen who remodeled part of my house brought food in, even though I asked them not to. Who knows what they may have touched, or put their treif on? This is life.
For some enormous families that want to be together (can be 40, 50, 60 people including kids), what else are they supposed to do? I know big families like this where people fly in from all over the country and they meet at a hotel for Pesach.
Everyone has to decide what works best for them, and how they can best involve their children/grandchildren, etc. There is no one-size-fits-all for this one.
Personally, Ive done the hotel thing and I’ve done the at home thing. We’ve always said we prefer to be at home… until I find out that the in-laws are coming to stay with us! OY!
#46 ‘sefasayim yishag mayshiv devorim nechoynim’ especiall the last 3 lines. and thats whats behind pro and con
Pessach at a hotel or Pessach at home?
Both ways are great as long you are together with the whole family!
Don’t judge others, people work hard all year and are allowed to relax once in a while.
Someone who is so machmer should eat anyway only in his own house.
i just wonder why the gedolim waited until now to say this, after people have already spent thousands of dollars on reservations that cannot be canceled at this point. while i agree that pesach at home is definitely ideal, (we never go to the hotels, there is definitely a special inyan to making pesach at home) it’s really not right to bash those who go to hotels. how do you know their situation? maybe the wife just had a baby and needs a break from the cleaning this year? maybe the only way the family can get together is by going to a hotel? it’s just wrong to make blanket statements here.
There is ONLY ONE comment above I would like to comment on.
Someone implied that those who eat gebrochts would not care about some other issurim.
I am a Satmar Chossid with a streimel, vaaser zokin, etc.
I do not eat gebrochts…. except…
We have a minhag, that on Achron Shel Pesach during the day, when we come home from shul, my wife takes out the special gebrochts pots and dishes. It is only a small set. We make that meal gebrochts.
My father told me this minhag was to make it clear that we should NEVER look down at those who eat gebrchts for the entire Pesach, as “Halacha wise, they are correct.” Not eating gebrochts is our chumra! Not halacha.
So, please, no matter how you and I may be machmir about something, never put down another Yid who has a different minhag. Those who eat gebrochts are not doing wrong!
thier ban falls on deaf ears .those who want to go will go
I am curious. Has anybody ever heard of a Kol Koreh that was issued to allow(matir) something rather than prohibit something?
My cousin is a mashgiach and he said the food is going on the table. The only question is- which heter do they need to use.
I wish I could go away for Pesach. I have made Pesach at home every year, except two years ago we went to my son where my daughter-in-law exhausted herself preparing lavish feasts every day, not easy as they live in a place where all kosher items are very hard to come by.
I hope that these Rabonim have the courage of their convictions and refuse to accept donations to their moisdos from people that spend Pesach in a hotel.
That would be the ethical thing to do.
The vin article itself did not make clear if the Kol Koreh actually prohibited going to hotels or simply asked people not to do so.
There is a difference.
There are people who feel they are not capable of creating the Pesach atmosphere at home for various reasons.. For them i can understand the benefit of a Pesach hotel. But for most heimish families, it is really a very big compromise on chinuch and kashrus.
my only problem is that this should have been publicized 3 months ago when people are signing up not now when it is too late for most people to start planning Pesach at home and lose their deposit!
still.. One needs to be aware that no place is problem free.. Keep your eyes open and ask questions..
#69 well said.. Its all about how when and where..
PEOPLE, PLEASE! Here’s a sad little reality: the Rabbonim are doing the thinking for us. Do you know why they are doing the thinking for us? Because we don’t take the time to do our own thinking.
Ask any kid: “Zeeskeit, what’s the holiest day of the year?” They’ll no doubt answer “Yom Kippur” or “Rosh HaShana.” Ask them again, “Tzaddik, tell me, is Pesach holy?” They’ll look at you like you took your recent fall from Mars headfirst and say “Yah, I guess.”
PESACH IS KOIDESH HAKODOSHIM. Before we became Charaidim, before we became chassidim, before we became kalte litvaks, before we became the best bochurim in Lakewood we became the Am HaNivchar – Klal Yisroel. We were taken out of slavery in a spiritual wasteland with tremendous miracles that every lowly shifcha al hayam got to witness; we spent forty years in a desert with nothing but dependence on the RBS”O; we were given the Torah; we were delivered to our homeland. IT ALL BEGAN ON PESACH.
Who cares if we have to slave in the kitchen, house, shopping WHATEVER genik mit de shtissim already. And yes If their wives don’t order them to leave the house so they can learn and be marbitz Torah many rabbonim would stay home and help.
I don’t want to be told what to do by anybody and I don’t want to have everything assered. But you know what? Do the Rabbonim come to your house, tackle you down into a chair, hand you a phone and say”Cancel your plans NOW!”…? NO they don’t. They are making you think. NOW START THINKING!
What about the many rabonim who join these hotels for Pesach as the resident Rabbi.. How are they happy with the kashrus etc. ?
I am also a middle aged woman who looks forward to Pesah every year. I also would not go to a hotel. or even other people’s homes for a meal on Pesah! (This IS what we were taught by our parents) I work VERY hard to make Pesah. I start cleaning my house Tu B’Shevat and the kitchen right after Purim. I start cooking, baking and freezing by Rosh Chodesh each year.
I also get great satisfaction out of setting a beautiful table, cleaning and kashering the kitchen and preparing all the delicious recipes that were handed down in my family for generations.
Every year, I sit down to the seders and it brings me back to my grandparents as I look forward to my children. I am exhausted but happy because my children are being raised as Jews. A Jew makes Pesah.
What did people do in the time of the Bais Hamikdosh when they were all olah regel to Yerushalayim? They had to stay in hotels – where else did they stay?
#69 – “If the owners are erliche chassidishe Yidn”
Um…What does “chassidishe” have to do with anything?
While the sentiments of these Rabbis may have some validity, the timing is cruel. Reservations are already made. Housewives are looking forward to having to cook and clean. The people who run these getaways can make or lose money on the difference of just a few guests.
This is something truly wise and fair people would begin to address soon AFTER Pesach, not a few weeks before.
I too am a middleaged woman who works almost full time, Each year I thank hashem for giving us the stregnth to make Pesach, and to enjoy the nachas of our children and grandchildren sitting around our own table.
There are so many unfortunate Jewish people who lack this privilege. Instead of “kvetching let us appreciate this wonderful opportunity,and yes, let us respect the wisdom of our Gedolim!
Hellooooooo
Where are the american “rabbonim” on this issue?