Jerusalem – The job of a mashgiach kashrus is 99% humdrum and 1% catching the frauds and swindlers trying to sidestep kashrus regulations. For that 1%, every mashgiach kashrus has to constantly be on the alert.
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The Aida Hachareidis revealed this week that its mashgiach kashrus was sent to a Chinese factory where he supervised the peeling of garlic cloves for an Israeli importer. The factory had hundreds of Chinese workers manually peeling the cloves and throwing the peeled cloves into large bowls. To avoid ruach ra, (which the gemora says affects peeled garlic cloves overnight), the mashgiach kashrus spread salt over the cloves and packed them in containers with his stamp.
During the day, the mashgiach felt something was wrong. When he came early the next morning to supervise, he discovered that the containers with garlic were unexpectedly double the number from the day before.
The workers were doing nothing unusual, which made him even more suspicious. He decided to check out all the nooks and crannies of the factory. When he opened the freezer room, he discovered two workers with ruddy cheeks and wearing thick woolen coats hiding behind wooden boxes. They were filling Badatz containers with tens of thousands of garlic cloves whose peeling had not been supervised. After hearing of the violation, the rabbonim of the Aida Hachareidis invalidated the entire 10 tons of garlic which the factory was to ship to Israel.
The Aida Hachareidis also reports a recent case where a wheat manufacturer abroad claimed a silo was packed with Yoshon wheat, but the mashgiach kashrus climbed all the way to the top to check it out and discovered it was empty and ready to be filled with Chodosh wheat.
You can’t trust the Chinese…..I avoid all things from China especially the candy
why does garlic peeling have to be supervised?
What else is new? That’s why we need good Mashgichim.
Very interesting.
One no source mentioned
Two chodosh outside of Israel doesn’t count anyway so what’s big deal?
right on #2 what nonsense you need mashgihim for peeling garlic when will this excessive mania stop there are so many other things to really care about anything in extreeme is harmfull and this garlic watching is tottaly rediculous infantile behaviour or just creating jobs so they can raise the price of anything we are our own worst enemy
I never knew you needed a hashgocho on hand-peeled garlic.
#4 ..HASN’T GOT TO DO WITH CHADASH ..SEE LAST MESECHTE DAF 17AUPPER 1/2
The Chinese are known ganavim. Just look at how they disrespect international copyright law by producing counterfeit CDS, DVDs, designer goods, etc.
Not to mention their hatred of Hashem by killing fetuses, limiting family size, and their human rights violations.
So WHAT if we can save a few bucks by doing business with them!
the Chinese are very sneaky i used to manufacture custom shirts in china, anything goes by them if your not on top of them 100% of the time they will manage to sneak by you
I have a friend who owns a manufacturing company that has factories in China. He says whatever he asks of the Chinese, they always say yes, even if they have no intention to meet his request. Probably same here:
“Mr Foo, I need wheat that grew before April 3.”
“Yes, yes.”
Interestingly, my friend also said ……………….
why cant we peel our own darn garlic
THE CHINESE HAVE A MENTALITY THAT IS TOTALLY FOREIGN TO MOST OF US.
they don’t care about their reputation and about future relationships. They are totally focused on the here and now.
If they can get away with cheating you now, they will do it, and to hell with what you think about them in the future.
Cant trust the chinese for anything!
Why would we care about garlic being covered overnight…no wonder kosher food costs so much if they are paying mashgichim in China to worry about garlic
I never understood how come some heimishe hashgochos can give hashgocha on candy and junk food coming from China, and people still buy it, it has a hashgocha!
I have definitely read that peeled onions or garlic can be left overnight if peeled for commercial use. I’m sure that some poskim disagree though.
This whole meshugaas is the yiddeshe verision of Obama’s job stimulus plan. As long as the yeshivos keep cranking out new “rabbonim” each year with no ability to earn a parnassah, they have to create new chumras so that there is a need for new hashgacha which is the only job these new rabbonim can qualify for. If you have too many firemen, you find an arsonist to set fires for them to put out.
If they would leave a bit of the root on the bottom, it doesn’t need an Hechsher.
Only that somebody at the kitchen should cut the bottoms and rinse them.
wake up it says in gemra you should not eat garlic that was left with out its shell its not a chumra
My Company deals with China and we have had the worst experiences with Mainland Companies. They are dishonest, unfortunately. Sadly, we must deal with them as they are so large now. The USA has destroyed itself and our leaders don’t realize what has happened. In twenty years the US will be a nothing the way things are developing. Our US auto industry is worth zero now and soon our computer, electronics and aircraft industries will be destroyed. What will be? I pray to HaShem to save Am Yisrael and our USA. The Chinese will either help or c’v Am Yisrael and the USA. Already they have sold missiles to Syria, Iran and previously to Saddam Hussein’s Iraq. They fell in Sderot and Ashkelon !!! Why are our businesses still shipping our jobs and industry to China? Tipshim !!!
Most of the time, it makes far less sense for these guys to go against the mashgiach. Hiring guys to hide in the freezer to peel extra garlic? What’s the point when it costs the same no matter?
Uh oh! Lookls like someone forgot to pay the hashgacha company!! Rarely does this kind of thing happen when the hechsher company is paid in full and on time!!
The mashgiach obviously was not doing a good job as how did the chinese get hold of the boxes that the Eida gave with the hechsher on. Those packages even not in use should have been under lock and key or not for public use. Dont blame the factory so quickly when the mashgiach who should have done the job at the beginning right.
niddah 17a. ein igros moshe
To #19
“The Chinese are known ganavim. Just look at how they disrespect international copyright law by producing counterfeit CDS, DVDs, designer goods, etc.”
They couldn’t sell any if there are no customers. So whose fault is it ? The buyers or the sellers ? The answer seems obvious
Rebbi Shimon Bar Yochai (of Meron fame…) is the tana that states which foods are considered a sakanah to eat. (“Chamira sakanta m’isura”..) Nida daf 17.
See the long teshuva of the Kloisenburger rav Zt”l in Divrei Yatziv – yore deah. The bekius there should give everyone a better understanding of how important this “chumra” was to previous generations.
As to not eating these foods, it is not a Kloisenburger takana. There are people from many sects that adhere to it. It was kloisenburg that got many bakeries to be in compliance but there is still a very blase attitude in the US. In EY they are much more makpid, which is why buying Israeli products is a safer bet with many spiced products.
Note: In addition to the “salt” solution, cooking the garlic and then drying it is also acceptable. Many spice companies cook and dry the garlic before it is chopped.
That must be one smelly factory!
#26 , pretty creepy statement. #32 , how right you are. It’s even worse. They want to creat a new currency and the US blinked. #36 , can you give us the source of that Reb yisroel Z”L.
This just proves that you should only eat what you grow, schecht and cook yourself. You can not trust anyone!!!
i do busines with china every item that i buy has so much dirt from eating while on the job yack yack
Copyright in China means COPY IT RIGHT !!!
See here for a good synopsis of the overnight garlic issue (and eggs and onions).
http://www.oukosher.org/index.php/common/article/shelled_eggs_peeled_onions_and_garlic_left_overnight_keeping_products_i_rua/
It is a real kashrus issue and different rabbonim will take differing approaches.
I don’t know how the Chinese were when they still had their original ancient culture, but they had decades of Communism during the twentieth century and they are still coming out of that. The rule of Communism is “What’s mine is yours and what’s yours is mine” (what Pirkei Avos calls the mida of the am ha’aretz) and in every Communist country — most certainly in the USSR — petty theft and daily dishonesty became the ordinary daily practice of the common people. Partly it was ideology — no sense of property, no private ownership, everything belongs to everybody — and partly it was the grinding poverty that Communism causes, which led to everybody being theives and doing whatever they could get away with.
The gemara does not say that peeled garlic or eggs is assur. It says that whoever eats them is “damo berosho.” There are nine things listed there, but none of the are brought down in the Shulchan Aruch. That means that the Mechaber and the Ramo didn’t consider them assur, and aren’t they whom we follow halacha lema’aseh? The Rambam brings only one of the nine (to avoid marital relations after a blood transfusion), but no mention about the garlic etc. The Rif doesn’t mention it. The Tur doesn’t mention it. So yes, it is muttar, and if someone wants to be noheig issur, it’s not even middas chassidus. It’s just being extra careful about one’s health.
For chodosh, though, it’s a halacha pesuka in the Shulchan Aruch in Hilchos Pesach (Orach Chaim 489:10) that it’s assur in chutz la’aretz as well as in Eretz Yisrael. There are two reasons for being meikil in chutz la’aretz, as brought down in the Mishneh Berurah. (1) It’s a sfek sfeika if it’s chodosh (see there why), or (2) since it’s a she’as hadechak, we are someich on the rishonim who hold that it’s a derabanan, and that the rabanan were only gozeir in the lands close to Eretz Yisrael. If yoshon is available, there is no she’as hadechak, and where it is known to be chodosh, there is obviously no sfek sfeika. In the story about China, they were talking about a fresh shipment of wheat, so it absolutely should not be eaten.
How did they get hold of Eida containers to put the stuff into?????? Is it not the job of the mashgiach to make sure all containers and seals are only accessible when he is giving them out?????? He should be the only one in control of those things, I don’t think there is much control at all from the sound of things, on both sides of the problem.
Which is a greater sakona? Using some unpeeled garlic that was left uncovered overnight or eating a second piece of potato kugel or an extra portion of chulent and kishka? Shall we ask a posek or, gut zol uphiten, a doctor? Has any rov recently publicized that it is ossur to eat like a dovor achar? Where are the pashkvilin about the amount of shelf space in the groceries of Williamsburgh, Boro Park, KJ, Monsey, etc. that are reserved for candy, potato chips, cookies, and other health-crippling foods that have infested our frum communities and are damaging our children? While you continue to argue about peeled garlic, your whole community drowns in a blight of sugar. Have you seen some of the children, lately? Almost no excercise and feeding on garbage leads to obesity and the health problems that are rampant in the frum community today. But it’s easier to be makpid on peeled garlic and yoshon. Who said that Jews are smart?
why cant a kashrus agency enforse a fine for repeat offenders just like here in nj?
R’ Meir. While it is true that this halacha is not brought down in the Shulchan Aruch, it is brought in Tosafos Meseches Shabbos (141a), Meseches Beitza (14a), Rosh, Meseches Beitza (Perek 1, Siman 21). And it is brought, lihalachah in the Pri Chodosh, Shulchan Aruch HaRav, Aruch HaShulchan, and Ben Ish Chai (Yoreh De’ah Siman 116).
R. Gershon (#71): On the contrary, from Tosafos and the Rosh one sees that it’s not an issur. They say that one can cut them on Yom Tov because if they prepare it from erev Yom Tov they will lose their potency, and *in addition* the gemara say it’s unhealthy. If it would be an issur, the loss of potency would be irrelevant — they should have just said you can do it on Yom Tov because it’s assur if it was done before.
The Pri Chadash does _not_ bring it lahalacha. He writes that he is accumulating those things which the gemara mentions to be dangerous, but doesn’t say that it’s lahalacha.
Where does the Shulchan Aruch Harav say it’s assur? Not in Siman 116 — his Shulchan Aruch doesn’t exist for that siman.
That leaves the Aruch Hashulchan, but it leaves him a da’as yachid. (I don’t have a Ben Ish Chai, but as a rule, Ashkenazim don’t follow his psakim.)
As a mashgiach of many years experience, I congratulate the mashgiach and commend him for his z’herus.