Jerusalem – This morning Rabbi Yair Hoffman from NY, who is on a tour in Israel sat down for VIN News in an exclusive private talk with Rav Moshe Shternbuch Shlita, the Vice President of the Eida Chareidis and the Chief of the Eida Chareidis Beis Din to discuss the Shabbos Hafganot.
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After the discussion the Rav allowed Rabbi Hoffman to be mefarsem the content.
YH: Were the protests originally called by the Eida Chareidis and what was the reason:
RS: The mass protests was originally approved by both the Bais Din and the Rav of the Eida Chareidis. Yerushalayim is the holiest city in the world and when there is such Chilul Shabbos we cannot be quiet about it. We regarded it as an attack on our religion. Especially, the invitation on the part of the mayor to come and park there next to the Kosel, the holiest place in the world in the holiest city in the world.
YH: But what about the violence? Wasn’t the Eida Chareidis aware that violence would definitely develop?
RS: The Eida Chareidis was always against the violence. And it is not correct to assert that there is always violence. It is true that there are always people in every circle that will engage in violence. No responsible person is engaged in the violence.
YH: What about the arrests?
RS: The Eida Chareidis does not want anyone arrested. Most of the time, also, the police arrest people that did not actually do anything, but the Eida Chareidis does not want the violence and it does not want the burning of the garbage cans.
YH: Are the people that engage in the violence to be considered pasul leAidus for a wedding?
RS: Of that there is no question. These damaging acts cause them to be pasul leAidus until they pay restitution. But the truth is that these types of people were in all probability pasul leAidus anyway before the hafganot.. If it was done with the Reshus of the Rabbonim then they would be patur, but here a mazik is chayav in damages and is pasul leAidus.
YH: What is the Eida Chareidis doing to ensure that the violence stop?
RS: The Bais Din has issued a psak that no one should engage in the violence. This week the police have even injured two people. We hope that the violent people in the group will take this as a sign and cease the violence immediately. All groups have people that they cannot control. The left wing of Israeli society for example is constantly helping the enemy and there is nothing that the government can do about it. Chareidi society also has its uncontrollable element that it cannot do anything about.
YH: But wouldn’t it have been better not to do anything in light of the massive Chilul Hashem that is happening throughout the world where the Torah community is being portrayed as a very violent group?
RS: Chillul Shabbos was one of the reasons that caused the Churban Bais HaMikdash and some protest had to be made. In the initial decision this was the thinking. Personally, I felt that one very strong protest would have been enough. However, others in the Eida Chareidis allowed a series of protests, and did not necessarily consider where it would go in the end in terms of what the violent elements would do. The violent people are not responsible people and do not listen to us. They are Baryonim and are not part of the Eida Chareidis community. The original protest was necessary because we are obligated to protest such a strong attack on Shabbos and on the Torah.
YH: Yoelish Krauss is often quoted by the secular media as the Katzin Mivtzaeem KMBZ of the Eida Chareidis. IS he connected in any way to the Aida Chareidis in any way?
RS: He has absolutely no connection to the Eida Chareidis whatsoever. [This is contrary to today’s New York Times article – Editor]
After the interview Rav Shternbuch requested that Rabbi Hoffman convey to American Rabbonim of the need to speak of the enormity of what Chillul Shabbos truly is. Rabbi Hoffman described to VIN News Rav Shternbuch’s demeanor as deeply disturbed by both the Chilul Shabbos and the violence of the Biryonim.
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No one needs to say it, but to state the obvious: these are righteous men, and it is good to hear them speak concerning this topic.
May the events in Yerushalayim be brought to a swift and peaceful close.
But the most impotant question::
How can a Godol not have the simple forsight, that any person or even child could have told you?, Yes, violance will definitely errupt.
It wasn’t such a brainstorm.
Yair Hoffman is fantastic. He does unbelievably great work. KEEP IT UP !!!!
“Chillul Shabbos was one of the reasons that caused the Churban Bais HaMikdash and some protest had to be made. In the initial decision this was the thinking.”
Can someone tell me where in the Torah does it say that Chillul Shabbos was one of the reasons that caused the Churban. Hashem destroyed the second bais hamikdash because of sinas chinam.
plenty of veiled and no-so-veiled incitement in these statements. Sorry, doesn’t cut it as a denouncement.
hopefully they listen
good that some godol are speaking up
How many Eida Charedia hooligans are reading VIN? If Rav Shternbuch really wants to stop the violence, shouldn’t he be “mefarsem” his views to the perpetrators of the violnce?
Read the article in the NY Times, they are totally one-sided, they dont even mention the guy Klien that was run over by the Police was trying to stop a (possibly illegal) autopsy, sanctioned by the police.
Yes, there always fringes and outside casts that cost people their reputations for life — but to us in diaspora are we doing something about the chillul shabbos? Are we angered enough by the change of the status-quo of 30 to 40 years, that if the secuars are successful in changing the status-quo on this thing, where will the next change in the status-quo be?
Do we understand the real, real hatred of some of the seculars and espescially certain parts of the mishtara to anything religious (and as we saw and was chronicled during the evacuation of Gush katif and Gaza) or jewish and want to uproot our identity totally from the jewish children? The videos of the police in Yerusholayim are heart-breaking to see the official police acting brazenly and seeing officers around them laughing?
rav shterbuch condemmed the violence the second week of the protests.
Over 60 years ago the Rabbis prohibited Jews from participating in the protest against the Secular Zionist.
“The Secular Zionists who have no Torah are chashud al shfichas damim (apt to kill),” the Rabbis said. They knew these G-dless Zionists better than us. (Remember the 18 Jewish soldiers who were shot dead while swimming to shore from the burning and sinking Irgun ship, thanks to BenGurion and Yitzchak Rabin?)
How right the Rabbis were! This week, within 48 hours, 2 charedim were run over because of the Secular police. Friday evening, police officer Alon Weinstein told the Arab driver to move on pulling along with him the protester. And Sunday evening, 2 police cars drove over the same man one after the other.
Why don’t we hear about these atrocities in the media?
There is no doubt in most sane people’s minds that Rav Shternbuch is an adam gadol whos actions and words are (nearly) beyond reproach. That being said, his followers seem unable to conduct themselves in a manner befitting a moral person let alone a Chareidi Jew. Time and time again “peaceful” demonstrations are called for by Daas Torah only to dissolve into mass riots which are consequently splashed across headlines around the world. My only gripe with Rav Shternbuch (and Daas Torah) at this point is the seeming unwillingness on their part to confront reality in Eretz Yisroel. No matter how important issues like chilul shabbos and the desecration of graves are, the collateral damage of these demonstrations far outweighs and negates any positiveness. Pictures of Chasidim throwing rocks, burning garbage bins and screaming at police only only helps people draw parallels to the Palestinians who also seem to feel that the only way to make themselves heard is to act in this manner.
There are so many issues in EY to be protesting about, why doe the Rav feel that the parking lot issue takes priority over the pervasive fraud and dishonesty that is being reported almost daily among torah institutions and government agencies. Why are they not protesting the absence of employment opportunities for their yinglach, adequate health care resources in certain areas, While we might wish for a yerushalayim that is truly “ir hakodesh” and everyone is strictly shomer shabbos, that is not the reality and never will be. Why not focus on those violations of halacha that have the greatest impact on the greatest number of yidden rather than a some foreign tourists and secular Isrealis who want to drive on shabbos.
reply to # 9 For your information there were two instances where demonstrators were run over by cars. The one on shabbos was the taxi. On Monday there was another instance where the police were trying to pull out a body for an autopsy and a person was critically injured after being hit by a police vehicle.
Have pashkevilim gone up denouncing these “baryonim”? NO!
Have the Rabbonim gotten up in front of their people on Shabbos morning telling them that it is absolutely assur to take part in these demonstrations? NO!
Are there only a few who take part in these demonstrations! NO! (By any account there are hundreds involved)
Have groups of these “non-baryonim” come out to stop these “baryonim”? NO!
Talk is cheap and meaningless. As is too often the case, we one thing for public consumption, but te reality is quite different!
Does someone out there know anything about this Yoelish Krauss? Does he really not have anything to do with the Eida Chareidis or is the NY Times correct (for a change)?
Now they speak up?! where were they till now? go back to sleep rabbis the damage is vastly done. Ashame it was left till now to voice against it. it’s a little too late.
Sorry yesterday I posted one small comment “to little to late” today I will add this, if this Rav thinks that with one interview with VIN will suffice he is wrong, don’t give a interview to a New York based news service, get up go out in the Street and during the protests confront these hooligans and tell them that you as part of leadership you do not want this behavior, it was easy for you to sign a announcement that people should come out to the protest and you yourself go home and eat Shabbath tish and get a good snooze and do whatever you always do and let people wrack havoc in your mane. Until you and your cohorts don’t go out in the street and confront the hooligans I will say “to little to late”
I’M ONE OF THE PEOPLE WHO DEPLORE THIS VIOLENCE which has been taking place on the part of the frum element, but at the same time i can’t help but point out the vicious sadistic agenda and hypocrisy in the NYT.
Let the NEW YORK TIMES (Yemach Shmom) not fool you in the least bit. Those dogs at the SLIMES will portray the Israeli Police and IDF as MUCH WORSE than NAZIS on a 100% Basis. Right now though it plays into their cruel agenda to portray the HAREIDIM (which they even hate more than the Secular Israelis, if you can actually believe that), as being even worse than the seculars (if that’s even possible according to them).
If the SLIMES is so worried about the Israelis, let them for ONCE in their miserable lifetime show some sympathy towards them when it comes to Israeli/Arab conflict. That will NEVER happen though since, like I said earlier they HATE them as well, they’re only using them as pawns right now to make the Chareidim look even worse.
NOTE: I don’t hate the Israeli’s, IDF, or the Chareidim, I’m just pointing out THEIR hypocrisy.
“However, others in the Eida Chareidis allowed a series of protests, and did not necessarily consider where it would go in the end in terms of what the violent elements would do.”
Chas Vesholom! The gedolim of the Eida certainly considered that and knew with their ruach hakodesh what would happen. Only hashem wanted it to happen anyway.
Anyone who says that “they” (protesters) are Posul L’Eidus, is most likely, Pasul L’Eidus, himslef.
Why?
Ibois Eima Kra – V’ibais Eima Svara:
Kra – Chazal Say:
1) The Klal, Chazal say, is: “Kol Haposel Bemumo Posel” so if a Misnaged is trying to Pasle Chassidim, Chazal say it’s because he is beMUMO (in his own mum) he is posel, someone else.
Svara:
2) If his reasoning for making anyone Posul L’eidus is because that “someone” (the protester) had made a Chilul Hashem, then this SAME SVARA applies to himslef too, because by the fact that this Misnaged goes public to the “news media”, to condemn chassidim, (protesters), he is HIMSELF also causing an even worse Chilul Hashem, in the press, and so it follows logically that his own psak din, to pasel “them”, also pasles himslef, because he too is now causing a Chilul Hashem.
somehow one does not see in those that criticize the Eida a genuine concern for Shabbos. perhaps if they did they would evaluate things differently.
It is true that Shabbos is the secret to success especially in regard to Jerusalem and its holy surrounds. Although, the questions begs to be asked why the chareidi public did not voice their collective and unified voice in choosing a chareidi mayor. If the chareidim would understand that there is more that unites them than divides them they wouldn’t see this terrible dilemma they presently find themselves in. The reflection is on themselves why today there is chillul Shabbos in Jerusalem. It’s not this Mayor or his cohorts whom really are clueless as to the blessing Shabbos gives. By rallying for God’s holy Shabbos is pure sanctimony on these Chareidims’ part. Rather let them reflect a little instead and see how they can mend their divided communities. I hope soon with heralding of Eliyahu Hanavi, Moshiach Ztidkeinu will free us all from the shackles of Galus.
Our community owes a debt of gratitude to Rabbi Yair Hoffman for interviewing the Gaon Rav Moshe Sternbuch shlita. I recently had the opportunity to learn Torah directly from this gadol, as part of a yarchei kallah on medical halacha (www.j-c-r.org). Rav Sternbuch is a walking sefer Torah and his Torah-filled mind is as sharp as ever. We are fortunate to have such leaders guiding us.
Thank you vinnews this was excellent. You continue to bring us crucial information.