New York – A rabbinical Modern Orthodox umbrella group in the U.S. is banning Chabad rabbis with messianic beliefs from membership.
The Rabbinical Council of America (RCA), one of the world’s largest organizations of Orthodox rabbis, includes an “affirmation regarding messianic belief” clause to its membership application.
The clause states: “By checking this box and with my signature below, I affirm that the following resolution, adopted at the RCA’s 1996 Annual Convention, reflects my beliefs:
“In light of disturbing developments which have recently arisen in the Jewish community… declares that there is not and never has been a place in Judaism for the belief that Mashiach ben David will begin his Messianic mission only to experience death, burial and resurrection before completing it.”
See here the full RCA application
It’s about time!
This is a courageous stance that will safeguard authentic Orthodoxy and will save Chabad Lubavitch from it’s extreme elements ,who, if unstopped will have brought and end to it’s Orthodox connections
anyone that’s messiabic (i.e. believes the chabad rebbe is still alive) does not deserve to be called chabad
Kudos to the RCA!
I am a Lubavitcher and i agree with this 100%. The yechi-nicks are big trouble makers and they do not represent Lubavitch. They are just a small minority who makes alot of noise and gives authentic Lubavitchers a bad name.
they say: “there is not and never has been a place in Judaism for the belief that Mashiach ben David will begin his Messianic mission only to experience death, burial and resurrection before completing it”.
it seems the did not learn the Gemara in Sanhedrin. and did not see the Sefer by the Holy Abarbanel (Yeshuot Meshicho).
I understand what they are doing but i dont think that they are correct to make people sign that mashiach wont first be buried.
How do they know? I dont know, and there is no proof from halacha or gemara, aside from if he was killed, as the rambam says. So to summarize, the RCA has all the rights to mandate as they wish but how could they know the system of the geulah?
I am not a Moshichist but, it is the height of hypocrisy that they suddenly care so much about adhering strictly to halacha on this one issue, but so many other issues for them they believe anything goes. This is convenient hammer used by the MoOrtho to vent their long hatred of Lubav, nothing more.
Chabad has been around for 200 years, and will continue to be with or WITHOUT the RCA. Its success, has never been about labels, rather the lack of them…as was once famously said “I never become a member of any club that would have me”
Ahhhh!!!! a breath of fresh air. However, how many chabadniks are or want to be in the RCA anyway ? But anyway, I like and support this declaration 1000%.
I don’t think it will make any difference. The RCA is modern Orthodox and those who feel that the Rebbe could still be Moshiach are not vying to join the RCA. I doubt that there will be an outcry from all those thwarted Lubavitchers who would have otherwise been sterling members of the RCA. Chabad has it’s own umbrella organization and does not need RCA membership or their approval. Also there is a difference between saying that the Rebbe is still alive and saying that the Rebbe can return as Moshiach.
Also, I really don’t think that the average Jew who is not involved with Chabad has any right to complain about what goes on inside Chabad or what politics occur within. How does it affect the life of a non-Lubavitcher? Probably minimally if at all. Maybe some Chabadniks are equally upset at some things that MO Jews do but would not have a policy that excludes them. That is pure sinas chinam. It is real hatred without a purpose.
I guess the modern orthdox Rabbis have resolved their own flaws. oops is that a female Rabbi?
Today at 03:08 PM messianic not chabad Says:””anyone that’s messianic (i.e. believes the chabad rebbe is still alive) does not deserve to be called chabad””
thats for chabad to say and chabad does not say it
What about all the torah sources that confirm mashiach could be someone who is not from the living?? zahar etc..
Why does the OU put its hechser on lubavitch slaughtered meat and chicken? This has always bothered me.
It’s a good thing that I joined before they decided to make you sign that.
Whereas I am not Chabad, and do not believe the Lubavitcher Rebbe is Moshiach, I could not sign something stating that there is no place in Judaism for this belief.
Whereas it may not be a common, nor popular belief, to say that it has NO place in Judaism is false, as there ARE mekoros for such a belief.
All i can say is yasher koach to the rca, although its quite disturbing that we havent seen similar stances by too many non modern organizations. this is one of the saddest problems facing torah true judaism today
is this the 14th Ani Maamin????????????????
what are women doing in the picture? do they allow women rabbis?
Many of them believe that the Rebbe did not die, therefore they can sign the declaration and still hold onto their Messianic beliefs.
i guess the Ramchal wouldnt have been able to join the RCA after he wrote his tefilla for the resurrection of Moshiach Ben Dovid.
Or maybe the Radvaz would be banned because he brings down in the name of the Ritva that all the Tzaddikim will be resurrected before the building of the 3rd Bais Hamikdosh (in the middle of Moshiach’s mission).
Or perhaps the Anaph Yoseph wouldnt get membership since he writes in his pirush on midresh eicha that Bias Hamoshiach can be after techias Hamaasim.
Well , if the RCA would ban the above then count me out too.
looks like the RCA also banned beards and have women as Rabbis. it in the picture.
Reply to #4 : What about if they believe he died and will return to complete his mission i.e. a second coming?
Does the RCA resolution include those who hold “men tur dos nit zugen in gass”? (Which is most of the “non-Meshichists”)
but theres a woman seated at a table among men at this convention.
I am a Chabad non-meshichist Rabbi in a Young Israel-type Shul. I applied to join the RCA and was appalled by this clause. They don’t ask you if you believe in Torah Min Hashamayim or check you are not Neturei Karta or Jews for Yoshke – but this they ask.
For the record I did not join and intend to tell them why. It is actually irrelevant if you are the biggest moshichist or the biggest anti, their mccarthy–ism and witch-hunting is outrageous.
Mushachists (mushchassim) will sign and say that they agree to the above statement because the Rebbe was only Mistalek and did not experience death.
Why do we rehash this nonsense every year?
In all fairness to Chabad, their feelings about the Rebbe zal stem from a deep and deserved love and affection for him. He was an amazing leader, a true tzaddik. Nevertheless, the Rebbe did not fulfill the requisite acts as set forth clearly by the Rambam and he was not, is not, will not be mashiach. The meshichists, no matter how frum they act or come off, are at best, cultists, and at worst, not very different from another religion that believes in resurrection. I have no doubt that had the Rebbe, hypothetically, told a follower to be mechalel shabbos for no reason, the follower would have done so. That is not Torah true yahadus and it is dangerous. The RCA has done the right thing and I agree 100% with this move. Whenever I hear meshichists argue, they yell, scream and call names – the true sign that they are wrong. The Rebbe accomplished amazing things and he surely brought the geulah closer, but Gimel Tammuz is proof positive that the Rebbe was not mashiach.
1,2,3 – Your comment wasn’t necessary.
4 – Bingo!
kudos to the RCA for helping to keep the Jews in exile!
this should save Klal Yisrael from those elements trying to get us out of golus
well well! so lets cut out pieces of tanach and kabbala to keep the rca happy? oh the gemara about reb avika was moshiach, maybe delete it from the gemara??
the rca is entitled to do what it wants BUT WHATS THE POINT? salt on a wound
wether one believes or not is not going to be changed one way or another
the fact remains that the rebbe left ” A HUGE VOID” that cant be filled
every lubavitcher believes that the rebbe is still doing ( tzadikim bemisasam….) no diff than one believing that rav pam zatz”l is still beseeching hashem on behalf of SHUVU
even if some lubavitchers take it a few steps further as a way of finding chizuk whats so bad???? i feel sorry for them & hope that they cont. his legacy
i think it revives a dead issue and adds an official wedge between the shluchim and many of these rca rabbonim
Excellent idea. Now if the RCA would only add a certification about other minei kefirah they may one day become a fine organization.
How would the Rebbe fill out this application?
He kept on saying that the Frierdiger Rebbe Z”L is Moshiach. ( V’Hoo Yigoleinu).
I guess, he would not either be acepted by Dr Berger.
Why can’t the RCA take it one step further – To ban Lubavitch meat and Lubavitch Shochtim? If one has false beliefs, should he be shechting meat??
RCA = Modern Rabbis Club of America
In present times of such major calamities befalling Jews worldwide, The Berger-ites just need some more material to stir up sinas chinam. This issue has been chewed over and over ad nausum. Resolution is really irrelevant anyway because RCA is nothing more than a boy scout club for modern rabbis. They have’nt done a thing for klal yisrael.
is this news? did they just update their application or has this been on the application since that resolution was passed?
Evry year the RCA pulls out the same nonsense as if to say ” We still matter”… How pathetic
as a Lubavitcher, I’m puzzled… Regardless of one’s belief of the Rebbe coming back or not… But to sign a paper saying that it can not happen!!!!That is limitting Hashem’s powers.
There is very little known concerning what will really be when Mashiach comes, the Rambam himself writes that it’s all a puzzle and will really only be known at that time…. Put it this way I would not like to have my name on that paper….
Please take a look at the sefer Tefillos L’Ramchal (author of mesilas Yeshorim) you will find there is a prayer for the resurrection of specifically Moshiach Ben Dovid.
In Medresh Rabba on Eicha , page 103 the pirush Anaf yosef mentions the possibility of Moshiach coming after being resurrected.
In shailos utshuvos Radvaz section 1069 , he describes in detail based on a Ritva that there will be a resurrection of Tzaddikim before the 3rd temple is built (a.k.a. before Moshiach is done with his mission).
Food for Thought.
There are many allusions by the bloggers here that there are mekoros that moshiach will rise from the dead. Can someone please site exactly where these mysterious citations are?
“How would the Rebbe fill out this application?
He kept on saying that the Frierdiger Rebbe Z”L is Moshiach. ( V’Hoo Yigoleinu).
I guess, he would not either be acepted by Dr Berger.”
He said Moshiach of the generation, not “The” Moshiach.
a Moshiach risen from the kever? An old story–Christianity!
CHABAD NO BUT WOMAN YES?
WHAT ARE THE TWO WOMAN RABBIS DOING AMONG THE MEN IN THE ABOVE PICTURE I GUESS THAT DOES HAVE A PLACE IN JUDAISM.
tell me whats a bigger issur woman amongst the men, or believing what the gemorah says that moshiach can come from those that already died?(look it up yourself & if you need an artscroll its there also sanhehrin daf 98 amud beis 6 lines from the bottom last 4 words on line amar rav. …dont be scarded to look it up and see rashi while you are there also)
i’ll choose the gemorah over the rca any day.
granted if you dont want to believe that its going to be the lubavitcher rebbe thats your choice, but to say that mosiach cant be from the dead, thats something that should be banned
or perhaps they banned that gemorah also!!!!
Why do they not ask if the prospective member believes in the State of Israel as aschata digiulah, which, based on the Rambam in Hiclos Milachim, all the poskim negated? The issue of who is Moshiach, is no different than when is Moshiach.
RCA zionists should be banned from Judaism
making up halachos (Hallel in Yom Hatzmaut)
as long as the rebbe stays dead he is not the messiach. if he comes back and does a few miracles I might change my mind.
If they want to believe the rebbe is coming back, thats their right, but I recommend they get a backup plan in case he deosnt.
in all honesty this will further spliter the jewish people. chabad guys wont be given aliyahs, they wont be able to convert people and we wont be able to eat their hashgachas,
in fact perhaps this might be a way for the modern orthodox to take back some of the hashgachah business from the chabasdskers
I didn’t know that Lubavitchers were tripping over themselves to join the RCA. In fact, many of their often “well-nuanced” positions repel large portions of the Orthodox community including so-called right-leaning modern orthodox. Anonymous’ footnoted ignorance is on display in ample measure today. He/she/it intends to imply b’kius when he only succeeds in demonstrating how little he really knows. Oh and let me introduce myself; I am not a meshichist and neither am I from the other camp. Instead I am one who fervently prays each day for be’as ha’goel tzedek to redeem from the abysmal hate and brazen ignorance that has infected so many.
Just to reitirate what has been commented earlier. It’s amazing that rabbis that believe that Torah isn’t Misinai, the world revolves around the sun, metzitza not bipeh, evolution etc. – all things totally contrary to Halacha – are fine but alittle belief in Moshiach is the real problem. Anybody see any hypocrisy?!