Jerusalem – Rav Ovadya Yosef has issued a trail-blazing if not original psak permitting a woman to recite Kaddish over her parents in a minyan at home. The psak is likely to arouse the chareidi rabbinical establishment against him.
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The psak was revealed today by Maariv reporter for chareidi affairs Avishai Ben Chaim. Rav Yosef’s psak was publicized on the Halacha Yomit web site run by Rav Ovadya’s grandson which cites a daily halacha from Rav Ovadya’s psakim.
The question which Rav Ovadya was asked to answer involved a woman who had no brothers to recite Kaddish for her parents. After bringing relevant halacha authorities, R av Ovadya stated that the woman could not recite Kaddish in front of ten women – since Kaddish may not be recited without a minyan — but could recite it in front of ten men after prayers or Divrei Torah were said.
Despite Rav Ovadya’s reservations not permitting a woman status in a minyan or in shul, the psak din is nevertheless likely to be heralded by women’s groups like Women of the Wall who have set as their goal breaching timeworn halachic limitations on women’s participation in public prayer and achieving recognition for their innovations.
Rav Ovadya referred to such women’s groups recently as “wicked women and reformers who are doing what they can to tear down Judaism… as if they fulfill all the mitzvos and the only thing they are missing is a tallis.”
Similar psakim that weakened the barriers against reformist innovations were responded to with scathing attacks in the Hebrew-language Yated Neeman. Until now, the Yated Neeman has refrained from openly attacking Rav Ovadya on other psakim that raised the ire of its leaders. Will this change now in the wake of this far-reaching liberal psak?
An excerpt of the psak printed on the Halacha Yomit web site:
“One of the great Achronim, the Shvus Yaakov, spoke about this matter in his sefer. He writes that reciting Kaddish is relevant to women, especially since saying Kaddish brings a great benefit to the souls of the parents. However, he writes that girls should not be allowed to say Kaddish in shul, but only in a gathering of a minyan of men in their homes, when Divrei Torah is recited or prayers are held, after which one may recite Kaddish l’ilui nishmas their father.
“The gaon and author of the Sefer Tshuva M’Ahava, writes that in Amsterdam a case occurred in which a man died without sons, and the daughters recited Kaddish (the implication is that they recited Kaddish in shul). The sages in town did not prevent it and the Chavas Yair (the gaon Rav Yair Bachrach) wrote in his tshuvos that indeed Kaddish is relevant to women too, and it seems that her saying Kaddish brings benefit and nachas ruach to her father’s soul, because she is his progeny. Nevertheless he writes that this minhag of letting a girl say Kaddish should not be permitted since it is an innovation which will introduce further breaches, as we see happened with the early reformers. They began with changes that opposed the principles of Judaism, and in the end, they totally uprooted major laws of Judaism… He nevertheless ends his words saying that he saw a nice custom in the holy community of Prague in which elderly men and women gather in the Ezras Noshim to say Tehilim after shacharis, and after finishing the entire Tehilim, orphan girls would say Kaddish. But such a thing should not be carried out in a shul designated for prayer.
“In conclusion, the Tshuva M’Ahava says that while reciting Kaddish should not be allowed in shul, in another place like a home, or in the Ezras Noshim, etc. girls whose parents did not leave behind sons may be allowed to recite Kaddish”
story goes that in munkach a girl was orphaned without brothers
she went to shull every AM – sat in back of mens section – and said kaddish at end of davening
chidush is that there was no mochoah by the rabbonim
apparently that hanhagah was not so unusual
can anybody very this story ??
Thank God we have a real leader, who is not scared to say the truth as it is
This is precisely the 400 year old case from Amsterdam that I referred to in a comment last week. How can it be possible to criticize the leading Sefardic posek in the world for following the Sefardic psak from 400 years ago?
In Ashkenazic communities, the custom of women saying kaddish may be somewhat newer, but Rav Soloveitchik reported that he heard women saying kaddish in the shul of his grandfather Rav Chaim of Brisk, and modern orthodox synagogues (at least in America) universally follow Rav Soloveitchik here. I personally heard two women saying kaddish for their mother’s yahretzeits in shul this morning.
Can the Yated seriously say that Rav Chaim or the Sefardic rabbis of Amsterdam were “weakening the barriers”? Remember it was the Sefardic rabbis of Amsterdam who put Spinoza in cherem!
Rav Chaim Kreiswirth zt”l told me that in Poland the women routinely said kaddish from behind the mechitzah, but only together with men saying kaddish. I did not ask him if they could say it in shul with if no men were saying kaddish.
Look in Migdal Oiz from R’ Yaakov Emden about a woman having an aliyah after having a child (holeches)
Not that the rov needs my approval but it is in line with the minhag of a woman saying birchas hagoimel in shul after a baby.
“other psakim that raised the ire of its leaders” Can anyone enlighten me on which other psakim the article refers to? Also is it true that in years gone by Rav Ovadya Yosef Shlit”a challenged the Chazon Ish Shlit”a & controversey has raged ever since!!?
Charlie where does the yated come in here?
He nevertheless ends his words saying that he saw a nice custom in the holy community of Prague in which elderly men and women gather in the Ezras Noshim to say Tehilim after shacharis, and after finishing the entire Tehilim, orphan girls would say Kaddish. But such a thing should not be carried out in a shul designated for prayer.
I heard the Chofetz Chaim’s daughters said Kadish in the Ezras Noshim, & he had a son.
Is it true?
Personally, I find the “weakening the barriers” argument obscene and juvenille. Either its mutar or its not. This sort of “man the barricades!” argument can be used to keep women out of public life altogether. (Yeah, I can hear many of you saying “Amen”…You lose me here)
I had a great great grandfather a rov and friend of the Sanzer Rov the Divrei Chaim, when he was niftar he left 3 daughters. They asked the Sanzer Rov who should say Kaddish after their father, so he answered that each of them were worthy of saying kaddish but he doesn’t want to stir a commotion in the world so they should hire someone to say Kaddish.
If it is ok for a woman to say kaddish with a minyan what is the difference where the minyan is? And how oftenw ill a woman find a minyan at home or not in a shul (except maybe on the side of the Thruway)? In essensnce he is saying it is ok for a woman to say kaddish with minyan but since she shouldn’t do it in shul she will almost never have the opprotunity to say kaddish. So what good is this?
The rav is simply acknowledging reality. Thousands of yiddeshe women say kadish with minyanim, with and without a mechitza, and would have continued to do so with our without his paskin. Its good that many who might have been reluctant to do so will now feel its ok.
I believe Rav Henkin addressed this issue in the 1930s in America as a Teshuva in his era and allowed women to say kaddish in shul quietly as long as a minyan of men existed.
Ok. Here is another example of throwing people off. Did you notice the picture? Does it strike you odd? Did you jump back for a second? well I did, all the women kissing the Sefer Torah, Unusuall huh? well that may be true. HOWEVER, the Rav’s psak has got nothing to do with the picture in fact he specifically stated that a women MAY NOT recite kadish in the presence of ten women but, rather requires ten MEN. Funny thought that in this picture there is NINE WOMEN and ONE MAN. Pictures………how much they can throw us off. Beware!!
Rav Goloventzitz told me, twenty years ago, during the shiva for his wife, that his wife when she was a young girl was told to say Kadish in the back of the shul for one (or both) of her parents. The Gadol who gave this Psak, was, if I remember correctly, Rav Yosef Chaim Sonnenfeld Z’TL. His wife was a very young girl at the time, and there are likely different tznius considerations than for an adult woman saying Kadish, but I am not sure this is so groundbreaking. One thing I am sure of is that I am not in a position to assess the Psokim of Gedolim.
it seems that harav Ovadia Joseph is one of the few gedolim of this generation
who is proficient not only in the four shilchan aruchs but also in the fifth one,
our generation could use some more gedolim like this
why did Moron Hagaon Harav Shlita wait till the age of 90 to hand so
a revolutionaty Psak which no Posek dared in the last 200 years? I stress 200 years.
I am sure the Rav was asked this Shaale tens of times during his Rabinical career and abstained from replying. I even heard that he did not want to reply if a woman should or can learn Mishnayes Leiluy Nishomo of her father.The stories of the Divrei Chaim, Munkacz, Rab Chaim and the Chofetz Chaim etc. are not Halacha, only stories. Maisalach are not Halacha.
The Pritzus and reforms of our generation cannot compare and afford some Psakim of the Shvus Yakov or Tshuva Meahava that were
acceptable only in places like Prague or Hoiroas Shah.
All above was heard from my Posek Hagaon Shlita.
i dont get it Everyones bringing a bunch of p’sokim as if there are those that say its ASUR L’HALACHA. Read the article. All it is is speculation (and dare i say hoping) that the yated and all the “fanaticle” gedolim are gonna rip r’ ovadiya. The yated just rips the feminist movment and their agenda as does r’ ovadya by calling them evil women
Once again the VIN readers and writer want to thow away halacha for another chumra. We are no longer living life al pi halacha, but only making chumras, which become at a certain point, ridiculous.
There’s a great book on the Holocaust called Vanquish the Dragon (based on several Talmidos of Sarah Schnirer) where its mentioned several times that the girls said kaddish – I always wondered at that, now I see the minhag has a mekor & obviously got nothing to do with just Sefardishe minhagim ………
Tora has a Mesoroh and every new or forgotten Minhag that is being
established reestablished needs atleast a Minyan Rabanim in the calibre of Harav Ovadia. Take the new Kinos for Tisha Baav that has not raken hold
Chodosh Osur Min Hatora.
reply to #30
The book refers to saying Kaddish between women only, of-course. Also in the litvishe seminaries (Gateshead Sem) the girls wil bentch with “mezuman” too. Guess you never heard about this either …..
Im not suse i get the sarcasim of your reply. i wasnt name calling, just quoting the article- although your right the Rav didn’t call them evil, he called them wicked.
This is a disaster – next women will want to sit at the grown up table at shabbos meals.
Many gadolim of prior generations have said it is not only mutar but encouraged for women to say kadish, blow shofar or do other mitzvot that serve as a kiddush hashem as long as they comply with halacha regarding mechitza, tzinius etc. I’m not sure why a woman saying kadish in the presence of a kosher minyan in ezras nashim has become such a big deal except for a few rabbonim who decided on their own to deviate from hundreds of years of minhagim.
They were Metakein Kadish for children!!. Is it possible that the Shvus Jaakov and the Tshuva Meahava etc. quoted by the Rav are permitting girls up to the age of 12 to say Kadish for 10 men in the ladies Shul and not grown females? In Prague 300 years back, Kadish was recited only by a different chosen Yosem for every other Kadish. There was no chance for two or more saying at the same time, always only one.
This Shale gave birth to many Amei Haaretz to voice their opinions on
vosizneias without taking into consideration that this a Shale for the
Gdolei and Poskey Hador and not for every tom dick and getzel that writes bits of English..
This Tshuva should not have been printed on the Internet.The next step is a referendum if women can or should be Oleh Ltora the Mordchai will be quoted just like the Tshuva Meahava.
Saying Kaddish after a beloved one is an emotional experience. This is true whether men ,women,young or old. Therefore , no amount of restrictions will ever succeed depriving anyone from reciting the mourners Kaddish..Millions of jews never had the zchus to have anyone say Kaddish after them..Think about that ! !
With this new found respect for women, does this mean that the Frenks will stop beating their wives? I certainly hope so!
I heard from a reliable source that in Radin women said Kaddish in the Ezras Noshim of the Chofetz Chaim’s shul. I’m not sure if that was the general minhag or if it was a time of war and there were frequently no men relatives to say Kaddish.
In Australia back in 1955/6s, the Rov at the time (SH”T Bezal Chochmah – Harav Betzalel Stern) permitted an only daughter to say Kaddish IN Shul for her parents who were killed in a plane crash.
The danger of this is that there is clearly an issur on women saying kaddish in Shul, as is rampant within the uneducated modern communities in NYC. This same wholesale rebellion (deciding that it is by extension okay for women to recite in Shul) is the reason that it continues to be prohibited for Ashkenazim today.
Just clarify the facts. Reb Moshe zt”l writes sidewise in a tshuva (vol 8?) to the question:
“Is a mechitzah necessary if only one woman is in shul?
He replies “No, there was often a poor woman who came into the shul for alms, or a widow who came to say Kaddish, without a mechitzah.”
There is no doubt that in those cases in prewar Russia, the woman was properly dressed, hair completely covered, sat quietly in the back of of the shul, and said Kaddish softly without chazanus without any personal or political aspirations in order that the departed soul should be elevated.
In another case the Liska Roov’s sons predeceased him and his surviving daughters said kaddish, no doubt abiding by the aforementioned protocol.
In our time, when selfless commitment to Torah principles has pushed aside in favor of “equality”, political aspirations, and political correctness, a stronger line must be drawn as stated by the Rambam regarding the “middle road” vs. extremism.
(cont’d)
(cont’d)
A comparison may be given to the daily recitation of the birchas kohanim, by the kohanim in sefardi shuls, as opposed to it’s omission in Ashkanazi shuls. Although great poskim like shu”t min hashamayim and shu”t Ramo mipano say that the birkas kohanim should be recited by the kohanim daily, since it was Shabsi Tzvi who tried to reintroduce it, it has become taboo. Here we are talking about a mtzvas asay di’oreisa of birkas Kohanim, and it has become taboo because of certain associations. Although R’ Ovadia’s psak is not a chiddush, it can be understood that anything that is seen as promoting feminism is taboo, even if there are halachic sources that permit it. The woman who uses R’ Ovadia’s psak to walk into a chareidi shul with her (chazon ish’s) tefach of hair sticking out from her shmattah, in order to demonstrate that she is equal to the men in shul will surely be sentenced to the worst form of gehenim. The woman who stands behind the mechitzah and says kaddish under her breathe along with the men in a manner which is unnoticeable, as was always done by nashim hakasharus vihatznuos, will elevate the neshama. Nothing new here.