Manhattan, NY – The historic Bialystoker Synagogue, on Manhattan’s Lower East Side, looked set to launch a new era this past June: For the first time, the Orthodox congregation was prepared to allow a woman to run for a position its board.
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But the synagogue members’ vote to do so has been overturned by the congregation’s rabbi, reportedly upon the intervention of Rabbi Dovid Feinstein, son of the famed late rabbinic authority, Moshe Feinstein. The father, in his day one of the most revered Torah legal authorities in ultra-Orthodox Judaism, was a longtime resident of the storied neighborhood in which Jewish immigrants once teemed, and in which his family retains deep roots and continuing influence.
The communal spat, which took place this past spring, pitted the congregation’s Modern Orthodox contingent against its more traditional elements, laying bare an ideological schism at the 145-year-old synagogue.
“This was definitely a win, sort of, for the more yeshivish,” one synagogue member said, using a term that refers to the non-Hasidic ultra-Orthodox. That synagogue member asked that his name not be used, citing the small size of the community. “I think the rabbi was concerned with that element leaving,” he said.
The congregation’s rabbi, Zvi David Romm, a graduate of the Yeshiva University’s Modern Orthodox rabbinical seminary, did not respond to repeated requests for comment.
Is this a case of “not in my backyard”? Do any of the “yeshivish” shul members disagree with women “socially interacting with men” in the workplace to earn a living for their families?
It is shameful that the Rabbi could not follow the will of his congragation but bowed to pressure from another rabbi.
Probably these 3 weeks will bring many opportunities to show whether we will avoid machlokes.
b”h
Is that legal?
the article makes it sound like Rabbi Feinstein was a chassid he was not
At least one member of the Feinstein family (albeit an in-law) has his head screwed on right. This is a real busha for all segments of the frum kehillah. After all the work that women have done to help this shul survive over the past 25 years, where time after time it nearly disappeared, this intervention by Rav Feinstein to contradict the preference of the kehillah is really disappointing. One of have expected a more tolerant and informed decision by the rav.
rabbi ramm iz big tolmid cucem
this is a board memeber what is the big deal, maybe woman should be locked in there house and only come out for air once a week
“I think the rabbi was concerned with that element leaving,” he said.
and how about that the rabbi was concerned that this is against halacha as the rambam paskens that a woman cannot be in any position of leadership
A tragedy! I remember when the Yeshiva was written up in the NYTimes, for monetary indiscretions, laundering money, etc. It’s about time a woman is allowed to be the President of the Schul. Do we have to live in the dark ages forever.
All one has to do is study the Talmud, and look at the women of Valor in our Hustory. Then look at rashi’s daughters. reb judah’s wife. She knew the laws better than the Sages of the time.
It’sabout time these people realize a woman has more value to mankind than a bedroom, and kitchen.
Nice to see the shul conformed with HALACHA as opposed to liberal jewish ideals spouted by the MO crowd.
grossly exagerrated. there was no communalspat. people can agree to disagree. just like one wanting potato kugel and one wanting lukshen kugel. we all have our preferences.
the bialystoker is a wonderful synagogue where you can find a mix of folks ranging from men in straimels to men in khaki slacks.
no one feels one is higher or lower.
the people there are very friendly as well.
male and female for that matter.
there is also a wonderful sisterhood group that is active as well.
There is a much simpler solution to the (non-)issue of women “mixing with men socially” on a shul board or committee:
Allow ONLY women to run!
In other words, limiting these positions to men only is and always has been a smokescreen for discrimination. Nebach, further talibanization of the frum world.
This is bad. Tradition needs to be upheld. Once women get on the boards of shuls, perhaps the next steps will be towards mixed seating, female rabbis, and female chazans. Imagine 50 years from now having “orthodox” shuls with female rabbis who decided to have children via artificial insemination rather than getting married.
This world is getting crazier every year.
The issue is giving woman a position of leadership “shroro”. Reb Moshe quotes the rambam who says a woman cannot become a Jewish king(/queen) or be in a position of leadership. This is what the Torah says, if it’s not feminist and modern enough for you… I guess the Torah is not for you
Rav Miller ZT”L advises against too much fraternization with MO’s. Their ideas are corrupt.
The problem with modernizing yoddishkeit is that in fifty years even this will be old, the will keep modernizing untill there’s nothing left! Imagine if yidden were modern orthadox for the last two thousand years…
the story is an exaggeration. the reporter tried to sensationalize it. only one person made a machlokes and caused an uproar. all the ‘haredi” and “moderner” get along beautifully. sadly, some people would have voted for a woman, just not this one. she ruined it for other women who may have been more appropriate. also, the Rosh Yeshiva did not order anyone to do anything. the rabbi of the shul saw that changing the shul’s governance, even though technically halachicly acceptable, would have created a problem because of the personality involved more than any other issue. finally, it was also important that such a change, if it was to happen, should happen with a duly elected board, not one that was a “holdover” board.
Rabbi Singer Z’L the former Rav is Msamayach in Gan Eden
I daven there every day and I personally have no issue with women on the board- BUT I heard that both Reb Dovid and Reb Reuven Feinstein said to vote against it so I did. Reb Dovid and Reb Reuven spend their whole day striving to make themselves closer to Hashem. Sadly, the same can not be said about the people who were campaigning for the other side.
Furthermore, a shul should be a place where one can go to bring themselves closer to Hashem, it should not be used as a way to gain political standing. If any of the women who wanted to get on the board actually cared about the sanctity of the shul they would have backed down when they saw how the shul was almost cut in half.
Men daven in the shul 3 times a day, seven days a week- isn’t it more logical that they should be making the decisions as opposed to some women who spend 2 hours a week at the shul?
Why stop there? Look at all the professional sports teams that only have men? All of you who think that a shul has to have women on the board should boycott any team that doesn’t include women on the team.
Our shul and our commuity is a peaceful place to live in. I daven in both Bialytoker and the Agudah, and would daven in any other shul in our neighborhood including Boyan, Mizrachi, etc. We are all respectful of each other’s religiosity. Rabbi Romm is a big Talmid Chacham and a wonderful Rov, and is doing a very good job in our community, While this was a disagreement, the Forward reporter could not get anybody to comment on the issue, because we undertood no matter the outcome, we all want to live in peace. I am therfore surprised that Rabbi Tendler chose to comment and state that Hagaon Reb Dovid Feinstein was incorrect. He does not live in our community and does not know all the facts,so I can’t believe that he said what he did. He may have been quoted out of context. For all the people who do not live in our community, please stop commenting negatively. The three weeks is a time of healing and not a time of lashon hara. Thank you Mrs. J R for not commenting.
The shul is a wonderful shul and the rabbi is a talmid chochum.
Why is YU’s Rabbinical Academy referred to as ” Modern Orthodox” in this article? My father N”Y is a proud Musmach who also learned in Yeshiva of Exllibant, France. ( following Yeshivas Chochmei Lublin) He wears a black hat and replaces the pulpit Rabbi in his shul for myriad # of religious duties. Why must we paint every Rabbi into a corner?
reb dovid is an amazing person.
This is why Judaism is shrinking at a very fast pace. In several decades, traditional orthodoxy will become so unpalatable and irrelevant to younger generations, that there will be just 500,000 Charedim in Brooklyn and that’s it. You can’t sustain the ignorant Middle Ages status quoe about the role and capabilities of women because rabbis of those generations had made certain rulings based on the social and cultural norms of their times. Back in the day people use to believe that witches on brooms were real deal does it mean we should follow that belief like sheep too?
A true win for our mesora!
Hopefully this will lead to momenentum and get rid of these people who try to weaken our heritage
I know I will get blasted
but one must realize that any halacha from previous rabonuom like the ramban was not created in a vacuum and got influenced by the time they lived in. Even the robonom get influenced by the culture they lived in That is why one may find different pasaks from different rebbies that lived in different countries at the same time period.
for example if one looks at how dogs are treated halachacly one will find that the rambam and others treat dogs more like a work product, a thing, a cow and less like a pet and part of a family than other robonum of that time. The common link between the poskim was what country they came from. Some came from countries that treated dog as a cow and that they where dirty not a pet had different halcaha ramification than robonum that came from lets say France where dogs where more pets. If one things a dog it like a cow a farm animal then a dog is mukzha if one thinks a dog is a family pet than a dog was not muchzha. can provide exact source if one asks.
so at rambam times people not only yiddin did not think woman had it to be leaders today most fell differently so even the rambam would change him mind
and everyone reading and writing here should be respectful as well.
i thnk enough has been said and we should go on to talking about other subjects.
perhaps back to bike lanes
speaking of bike lanes…..in willi, when there is a sign that says ”no shorts” is that for men or women or both?
I’m pleased to report that our “Chardal” shul in Israel just elected two women to our vaad. Of course it’s no big deal for us as we’ve already had a female Yoshevet Rosh for a 2 year term!
#64 I was wondering when you would show up.
Pity you didn’t come to the lovely Sisterhood meeting yesterday eve.
No prob , it went very well anyway.
Thank you for your past work regarding the singles events, it was and is appreciated. I know many men who can multi task including your husband so just look over to the other side of the bed and you will see one of many multi tasking men on the LES and elsewhere as well.
You didn’t get what you wanted with regard to the Womens issue so you left the Shul.
That in itself shows the lack of true dedication to Bialystoker. You could have been a great asset in other ways.
Nu what’s so bad. I think that dad Torah hot this one right
yea yea #75 , meanwhile she left the shule and guess what, it is still functioning.
if she truly wanted to help in oh so many ways she would have done so with or without a title.
puh leaseeeeeeee
We should not all just blame the Rosh Hayeshiva. This is part blame on the board members who went to the Rosh Hayeshiva after the vote behind the back of Rabbi Romm. They embarrassed Rabbi Romm. Rabbi Romm is a huge Tzadik and what these few board members did and we all know who they were was wrong. If they had an issue with women on the board they should have spoken to Rabbi Romm before the vote happened. Shelly Silver davens in this shul on shabbos and is a member as well. Why did he not publicly stand up for Rabbi Romm against the board members who are Shelly Silver’s friends? Rabbi Romm had done a lot for you Shelly and when Rabbi Romm needs your help you don’t stand up for him Shelly, shame on you Shelly. This is what Peirki Avos warns us about government rulers who don’t stand by people when the people are in need only when the government is is need. Shelly Silver why did you not help solve this situation? Shelly, If you can support gay marriage which is against the Torah, then why cant you support a Rabbi who teaches Torah???????? Shelly, get your Torah values straight and don’t let your friend board members get away with this by keeping and remaining silent!!!!!!!!!!
It is really sad what I see when I read this, I live in the Lower East Side, and we have an amazing community. This situation was something that happened, and we should be looking about bringing Shalom in the community and not point fingers and claims against a Gadol, such as Reb David.
I can not say I would have voted against women on the board, but that being said I do not have the Das Torah that the Rosh Yeshivah Reb David & Reb Rueven have, and I will say that it is unlikely anyone here who would post here do. After hearing their opinion I voted accordingly (I did not hear any Psak that women can not be on a board of all shuls, was a specific psak for a specific situation).
What was said and was determined between Rabbi Romm, and them is not for me it was a question that was between them, and a discussion that they had. All I can say is it is about following Das Torah, and having Achdus now in a community, and making more negative comments here now during the three weeks about Gedolim B’Yisroel, is not going to help bring unity to the community.
what a shame most of these postings are. here we are in the midst of one of the most saddest periods of our history and we have not yet learned the lesson. Why was the second bais hamikdash destroyed? Sinat Chinam, just read this stuff. It holds a candle to Kamsa and Bar Kamsa. Such venom from some mouths. I for one am ashamed.
What has the Jewish world come to? Last week we read that Bilaam said “Mah Tovu Ohelecha Yaakov” He praised us for being private with our personal matters. Now we read about everyone’s business and feel entitled to know and comment. How low have we come as a nation? I am seeing that this site adds nothing positive to my daily life. It is transforming me and those I love into the social equivalent of washer women and street urchins. I never hung out with people who would talk like this before. I don’t need to hang out with them online either.
ok, its erev shabbos now, can we all get past this and go onto something nice like celebrating shabbos?
Exception must be made to the one who is putting Rabbi Romm’s Orthodoxy in question. As well, we must protest the seemingly vindictive and likely speculative at best “outing” / attributing a particular anonymous post to a particular person especially while hiding behind anonymity. While common sense usually dictates that one does not respond to anonymous comments on a website, and perhaps this will just fuel the fire (I pray not), to the extent I fail listening to that advice here, I for one will not allow anyone to – cowardly & unjustly – attack my Rabbi nor my friend – both good, solid people of integrity.
We have real enemies and real issues. Please can we unite and deal with those issues instead.
Sorry but am I the only person eho thinks that the Rav should LEAD and the congregants should respect his decision. THAT IS WHAT THE JOB of RAV is all about.
I always laugh when there are comparisons between the great women of tanach…and the liberal womens movent of our times. what a hock!
I am stunned that people would comment here it is an embarrasment that the paper or people would question a Gadol B’Yisroel like this, if you have a real question you should go to the yeshiva try to speak to the Rosh Yeshiva and ask like a mensch that you do not understand the Psak. But to question and point like this about Reb David Feinstein, a man who people from all over come to ask shielas a man who Rabbi Romm followed his Psak due to his Das Torah, who are you to judge. Who are we to ever judge anyone especially in the 3 weeks, even more so a Gadol. If you have a question ask, also realize not all Psak are general psak for everyone they can be situational. To question and comment about a Rav in his own town, who knows the situation when you don’t based on a few writings in a paper, I am just stunned.
Rabbi Romm is eliminating an entire segment of the Manhattan Jewish community from considering his community and shul. The LES has the most reasonable housing of any Jewish neighborhood South of Washington Heights and there are families that would choose it (Ramaz, MDS, Park East Day School) but the signals to any frum family who is more modern is questionable. The community talks about bringing new families in – well, they should look at the low hanging fruit and make some real decisions about their future.
Let all the haters and losers rant about the Bialystoker shul. We have a wonderful place that modern, haredi and everything else fit in nicely with one another. Bitter nasty creepy people stay away…especially bike wackos. We are united with our rabbi and the families who love our shul.
Rabbi Romm is the nicest rabbi I have ever met. Besides being a Talmud Chochom, he treats every one with such respect and alway’s a smile on his face.
He and Rabbi Feinstein is entitled to there decision. If you dont like it, feel free not to daven in our shul.
The people in Stanton Street Shul are very warm and friendly and have a great Rabbi as well. The Rabbi is very Knowledgeable. The lady that caused trouble in the Bialystoker shul now davens in the Young Israel. Stanton Street shul is a warm and friendly place. The trouble making lady and her husband are not consistently nice people. They are nice people sometimes, but not all the time. They are not warm and friendly people as it depends on the day. They will only be a distraction and an abomination to the Stanton Street Shul if they came in because the trouble making lady and her husband are not people you want to be friendly with especially for the fact that they are friends with a divorced man in the lower east side who lives with a pilegesh, a shiksa and he walks through the streets in public with her and this guy also supports the Yeshiva where Rav Dovid is the Rosh Hayeshiva. This trouble making lady is friends with a guy who lives with a shiksa who this same guy is good friends and supports the Rosh Hayeshiva who this woman is upset with. what a crazy situation!!!!!!!!!
You are correct with the facts #124 . The only people that would have left the shul are people that most people in the shul would have been very happy if they left the shul. The people who would have left the shul are different types but yet all have one thing in common which is that you dont want to associate with them. One person that would have left the shul is the former Rabbi son, who is on the board. He is also one of the richest jews out there who gives a lot of money to charity and also sponsors chazan events but this guy has no warmth and no derech eretz, a very cold person. If he left the shul then the shul would have lost lots of money. Another person who would have left the shul is another guy on the board who thinks he runs the neighborhood because he manages buildings and runs a volunteer ambulance service, he is a person that could be your best friend one day and pretend he doesnt know you the next day. Another person who would have left is a snob board member whoset twin sisterinlaws posed in a pritzus magazine in the 80s. There are others to mention but we will stop there.
Continued from comment 125: These 3 people are the cause for embarrassment of Rabbi Romm. They had the chutzpah to go after the vote took place and go behind Rabbi Romm’s back to ask another Rav. The Rosh Hayeshiva should have ignored these 3 people and told them this is Rabbi Romm decision. Maybe they threatened the Rosh Hayeshiva or money was involved. As far as I am concerned I and many others would have been very happy if these people left the shul and we r still waiting for them to leave. As Rabbi Romm mentoned in a speech that almost looked like he was giving a Eulogy(The Rabbi still today does not look happy as a result of this situation especially seeing his facial expression), we need to create shalom in the community. The first step would be to throw these conspirators/Sonei Yisrael out of the shul and out of the community
Let’s all stop the Loshon Hora. Tisha B’ av is right around the corner.