Jerusalem – Sephardi Chief Rabbi Shlomo Amar expressed concern that Reform Jews are taking over Israel, in a letter he sent on Thursday, Israel Radio reported.
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“Those who call themselves liberals and reformers and their friends and supporters” brought us to “our spiritual low point,” in which violence is rampant immodesty is acceptable, and assimilation is at a high, even in Israel.
“They now have their claws in the nation of Zion, and are trying to impose the lifestyle of other nations on us. They established legions of warriors in the Land of Israel, whose purpose is to remove Torah from Israel.”
The chief rabbi added that every Jew must try to influence Knesset members and ministers, and pray for these “lost sons to return to the right path,” because they are “our brothers, our flesh and blood, even if they are our rivals.”
this guy is 100% on the mark. We shoudl all speak out about the abuses and heresy of the reform and conservative movements. we are definately at a spirutal low and it is due time that truth be discussed openly!
There are far more Christian churches in Israel than there are Reform synagogues. The idea that Reform Jews are taking over is ludicrous!
Well said
Reform Education cheated me personally out of a learning of hebrew, 30 years of keeping kosher, praying with a mechitza, proper dating, learning about shabbas. How horrible is it that this movement has become so rampant!!!!!! Why cant we get back to traditional values so that we can live proper diligent lives? There is so little opportunity for so many children who are enslaved to the reform view point!!!!!! May there be a day when Torah Judaism abounds!
I seems every time we have some level of achdus and coexistence among the secular, conservative, orthodox in EY, the rabbonim from the ultra-orthodox end of the spectrum become very agitated and find some way to stir the pot by issuing some letter or proposal which are bound to rekindle the controversy and fights. Kol Hakovod to Amar for following in this great tradition during chodes Elul and seeking to stir up hatred and fighting among yidden. Maybe he should reconsider what he is doing and reach out to the reform in a positive way rather than making such vile and hateful comments.
Reply to #1
Yes. Lets find more issues to fight about in chodesh elul. G-d forbid we should have unity within klal yisroel where yidden are allowed to find their own derech. Instead, we should dictate how other Isrealis must live their lives and what them must believe. Why should we let the Mulluahs in Iran and Afghanistan have a monopoly on their efforts to create a theocracy in the Middle East. Eretz Yisroel should be the first to coerce all of its population into the belief system dictated by a few rabbonim. Perhaps we can find some ways to trigger some riots and demonstrations to futher advance the cause of achdus.
I’m not sure why we are reporting a continuing statement from the Rabbi. This is something he says quite often. The majority of Israel’s Jews are not traditional or even orthodox. Most are barely religious at all. This is hardly a new concept in Jewish history. At the moment, one particular strain of Judaism is in power over most things religious. Israel’s government is a secular democracy. Things can change. Clearly the Rabbi would prefer this to not happen. I agree and sincerely wish him the best of luck.
The failure of traditional Judaism to engage the majority of Jews in Israel is unfortunate. The continuing turf wars between traditional and orthodox groups that should be working together is even more unfortunate. The Reform fill a void we allow to exist. If the power shifts, the only people who will be to blame are ourselves for our lack of foresight and actions min Hashamayim.
My Jewish parents divorced when I was 10 years old. My mother’s Reform get begins with “To whom it may concern” and mentions only 3 Hebrew words “Dinah DeMalchusa Dinah” declaring that the NJ divorce decree is valid for a Jewish couple. My mother remarrried and I got a kid sister. Years later I and she became B. Tsh. in Israel. My sister met a fine religioius boy and they were ionterested in marriage. That was wehn she discovered that she is a mamzeres, because of that ignoramus of a Deform clergyman. We will never forgive him not in this world and not in the next. The rest of her story is sad, and I won’t go into it.
I think we should learn to welcome acheinu Bnei Yisroel who have known no other Judaism except what these movements have taught them. I was raised attending a Reform temple and was dissatisfied with the level of practical Judaism that they observed, but cursing them and blaming them for all the problems of Klal Yisroel is not productive.
To # 5
Did you not read the last paragraph of the article?
Is it better that we mingle with the reform and conservative and lose all our Torah values because of your so called “achdus”? That kind of Achdus will destroy Am Yisrael!
Moshiach is gonna have a big job!not only pulling the reform, conservative and liberals together but getting all you VIN posters together too!
I guess he does not read the papers about the violence and all the white collar criminals in the heridie community and smuggling even drugs
these so called “rabbis” who permit and openly flaunt clear and unambigious Tora laws do not deserve to be considered with anything but contempt .
hell! the reform and conserv.agenda is not to fight.they are the nevil chambelains of the jews.give in.appease.there cultural concept is negative to the survival of the jews.that’s the problem.i really don’t give a dam if they prey to bal or elvis.of course they’ll eventually go into the dustbin of history.you can’t reach out to someone who is not ready to contemplate your side.the r&cs; are not a religion as such.they are a mentality and therefore have no place.the rca tries to have a dialog with them but i’m afraid it may be like throwing a stone to meculis.
Reform & Conservative movements are spiritually bereft, but many of their members are seeking more……they just feel more comfortable there than Orthodox because they weren’t ready to make commitment. So many of them can be mekareved from that point—they have taken a first step and can move upward from there. The problem comes when proponents of the movements become defensive and see Torah Jews as their enemies.
when I was a member of a reform congregation and learning more about judaism, I inquired of their library if they had any books from Artscroll (which I had identified as a great place to learn from). Their reply was “no, we refuse to carry books from artscroll because they are ‘too orthodox/religious'”.. I have since Gladly switched my membership to an orthodox shul. It appears that the reform movement is actually at war with religious Judaism!
Reply to #13
Well I suspect its mutual, since even most of us who reject reform and conservative judaism as a core concept, still have absolute contempt for you and your approach to achieving unity within the yiddeshe community. I trust that contempt will be shared by those in the “supreme court shel maalah” who will judge your hatred of other yidden when you stand before the ebeshter in a few weeks
Itchemeir– you’re blaming the wrong person. The Reform don’t consider your sister a mamzeres, and there’s no physical or biological defect she has that makes her any less of a person than anyone else. The people who ruined your sister’s life and will prevent her marriage are the rabbanim. Believe me, if this were their problem instead of some poor baalat t’shuva’s problem, they’d have found a loophole.
the reform and conservative took down the mechitza. They think that they are “tearing down the Berlin wall”.. But what they are really doing is tearing down the Gates to Jerusalem! Chas V’Shalom!!!!!!!
The idea that reform and conservative are better than nothing is dangerously misleading. If you grow up with nothing, when the time comes to return, you start from point zero. However, reform and conservative beliefs are totally against torah to the point that someone who grows up with them, as I did, actually has to unlearn much of what they were taught. You are actually coming from a negative place, and have to undo quite a bit, which is much harder from just starting fresh.
As for the idea that we should let everyone be Jewish in their own way. I must have missed the part of the Torah where G-d commands us to keep the mitzvoth, unless that doesn’t work for us and we have soemthign better in mind. If you could show me where is says that, I’d be much obliged.
Lastly, regarding the idea that we should not try to push people into our way of doing things, the frum world is unique in that we follow the Torah idea that one Jew is responsible for another. As the old parable goes, if someone drills a hole in a boat even under his own seat, it affects the whole boat, not just the man doing the drilling. Likewise, La Yisrael is a whole, and what affects one affects everyone. We have an obligation to help our brothers and sisters. I personally am thankful to the many frum yidden who (lovingly) helped me improve myself. If you saw someone drowning, you would not stand by. So why stand by when someone is spiritually drowning.
Spiritual Low Point and taking over Israel? Hmmm. I’d say the rioters, dumpster pyros and the modesty “police” are light years ahead of the Reform. Kind of like, “You can worship G-d but only my way.” Maybe he should tend his own flock. Sad.
charliehall you are wrong again reformed judiasm is a new thing in israel it wqas a new invention in america first you see conservativism wasnt leinent enough but itbvtrying to make major in roads in israel with secular jews that believe in nothing
overr the years the reformed movement has vastly disappeared in america since there places of worship are seldom used though great it appearence. after destroying america they are now trying to make inroads in israel and need to be stopped. i know I have reformed rabbis as friends and yes we agree to disagree and i still cant eat in their homes
Many followers of these deviant made-up religions who call themselves Reform, Conservative, etc. don’t know any better and should be approached with true Judaism.
It is their leaders, their phony “rabbis”, who are teaching & leading Jews to practice something that is NOT Judaism. They tell their followers that different, divinely inspired men and possibly women wrote the Torah. They change their religious rules and regulations every year at their annual conventions where this phony leadership votes on how to conduct their farce and what rituals should be discarded this year and if homos and women should be allowed to join into their phony leadership.
Unfortunately, there are people who don’t know any better. They were spoon fed this crap as they grew up and they think that this is what Judaism is all about. Nebech. We have to start educating these misinformed people. We should invite them to our homes for a Shabbos or a Yom Tov and explain to them that the Torah is Hashem’s own words to us. That most Halachas are not as burdensome as they were taught. Why intermarriage and assimilation can and should be avoided not encouraged. This will be a good start in order to bring Yidden back to Judaism.
The Orthodox love to blame everyone who is not them because it makes them feel more fulfilled in life with their own difficult lifestyles.
Charedim in Israel need to understand that THEY ARE not the Reform movement who have heavy influence on politics and matters that involves Judaism inside Israel. Shlomo Amar and his crew are bitter that they did not succeed in another power grab of social policy (conversions). Once Natanyahu will give the Charedim another deal $$$, they won’t be blaming Reform for at least another year.
Charedim are to blame for turning off millions of Israelis from Judaism because all non Charedi Jews see is: hypocrisy, corruption, scandals, thievery, contempt, disloyalty, division, deep seeded hate with in the Charedi world let alone for secular Jews. They see rabbis who fight like wolves for power and control of money, control of politics and daily lives of individuals. They see holier than though hypocrites who try to hide the ugliness and the many serious social problems in their communities from public light. They see a million men who refuse to take the burdens with other Jews of defending the homeland that feeds them and provides them freedom. They see growing radicalization that never existed in Judaism.
Before the Charedi leadership blames the Reform for “spiritual low point” let them look at their own communities who have brought Judaism to a spiritual low point in Israel and elsewhere. If they ever decide to actually clean up their own dirt in communities and promote true Jewish values, maybe then secular Jews will see something beautiful. Sharing the burden of serving in IDF that has unified Jews from all walks of life is a good start to bridge the gap between “Torah Jews” and secular Jews who so far continuing to hold the country and society on its feet.
In Israel there is 2 options only, either you join a Charedi world or you stay secular because there is no Reform, Conservative or other communities like you see in the U.S. This blaming Reform for Israel’s social problems is nonsense demagoguery aimed at Charedim.
just ti lighten the mood. I think the word some of you were looking for is “niskarev” 🙂
Paskunyak is exactly right. Those who associate with those “movements” have been fully incorporated by them, allowing their consciences to be at ease. After all, they pray as a community. They have no idea their “movement” has taken advantage of their lack of understanding, like the child taken away at birth from his parents. But these are holy Jews and should be thought of as such. They are victims in a denial of the truth scam. When those very “movements” and their “rabbis” make statements and stake out positions which are intrinsically anti-Torah (chas v’shalom) what are these Jews left to think? They have a vested interest in their congregation, friends and social order. What are they to think when faced with the truth? These Jews are forced to choose between loyalty to something they can see and experience vs. an idea for which they have never encountered before and which, (in their minds) is not only different from their current set of beliefs but contradictory in nature. It is hard to approach Jews under these conditions, but approach we must. Israel must be protected from this blight.
http://aprpeh.blogspot.com/2010/08/chief-rabbi-amar-speaks-on-conversion.html
Paskunyak Says:
Many followers of these deviant made-up religions who call themselves Reform, Conservative, etc. don’t know any better and should be approached with true Judaism.
sorry to inform you they do not consider orthodox are true Judaism. They interpret the Torah differently than what is called rabbinical Judaism.
90% of halacha is not really said in the Torah like not eating milk and meat for example. The rebbies inferred it from what is says 3 times do not cook…
As somebody who is NOT a Jew due to a maternal deform conversion, I can’t agree with the Rabbi more.
itchemeir: I believe all deform and ‘conservative’ marriages have been declared invalid due to problems like what happened with your sister; if the marriage is invalid then there is no need for divorce and no possibility of mamzerus.
Thank Gd there are still kind hearted yids who are willing through love and self-sacrifice to mekarev the lost yehudim. Judging others blindly and namei-calling is just counter-productive. These are the true yids and not the harsh judgmental types that wear the clothes but still don’t have judaism in their hearts.
One can easily blame the Reform, but just maybe one should look into himself and ask what was it about Orthodoxy that caused 85% of our brethren to leave it.
Imagine a school where 100% of the students enter frum, and only 15% remain frum after graduating. What do you do, blame the students?
Perhaps, some notions which the Orthodox tried to mandate such as Jews must not speak the local language, and not get a normal education, and must wear only black and white were too distasteful to many Jews. Especially when these customs have nothing to do with Judaism, to begin with.
Thank Gd there are still kind hearted yids who are willing through love and self-sacrifice to mekarev the lost yehudim. Judging others blindly and namei-calling is just counter-productive. These are the true yids and not the harsh judgmental types that wear the clothes but still don’t have judaism in their hearts.
Do the modern love the charedim also?
#25 ,
Wrong about Reform Judaism on two counts. First, it began in Germany in 1811, not in America. Second, its membership has grown recently and it now has two to three times as many dues paying members as do halachic congragations. Reform also has two hundred more congregations in America today than it did a generation ago. In most of the US, if there is a single synagogue of any type, it is a Reform synagogue. It is the Conservative movement that has imploded in the past 30 years.
Reply to #8 Couldn 217;t a beis din also rule that your mother 217;s first marriage was equally invalid, thereby fixing the situation? A long shot, but 230;
Re: PashutehYid
Not to agitate, but where do your statistics come from? Orthodox marriages are exponentially more successful [permanent] than any offshoot or popular derivative of Judaism [Catholicism, Reform, Islam etc.]. Perhaps things are different in the sticks, but in Brooklyn, I have not noticed people ‘frying-out’ that much. The worst I have noticed is someone leaving a black hat shul in favor of a “kiddish-club” Young Israel place.
Perhaps the growth in Reform is because they are counting the goyim in the minyan?
What little people now can destroy them Conservative was start by the reform around the turn of 19th century to deal with immigration in America. When it was create it was al pi din, keeping Shabbos, keeping kashrus, wearing tzitzis, mikva and all. After it went down hill from there. The reform did not like Jews with beard and peyos and said you can be a Jew without them Yes you can but you need to know the halachas of what is acutally need for peyos and how to shave.The Sefardi and Yemeni never got involve. If they went to shul they want to an orthodox one not a reform.Reform was created to do things whatever a person want to do. I want kashrus or not it depends on me and me alone. It was a religion based on you as the center and not Hashem. It does not work.
ANOTHER THING AND ANYBODY CAN CHECK IT OUT
How much does an orthodox Rabbi make in America a year and check for the reform.
I have friends that were offer jobs to PREVERT Judaism for big money. The reform is a good show with the leader the head actor. My close friend in Eretz Yisrael use to learn with people going to become reform leaders since they needed to learn so gemara. a talmid said it is only a panasah
“Many followers of these deviant made-up religions who call themselves Reform, Conservative, etc. don’t know any better and should be approached with true Judaism. ” [My quote in #27 ]
To #31 - Says: sorry to inform you they do not consider orthodox are true Judaism. They interpret the Torah differently than what is called rabbinical Judaism
You are 100% correct, They do no consider Orthodox as TRUE Judaism and they interpret the Torah defiantly because they don’t believe in Torah Shell Bal Pe. They believe that different, divinely inspired men and possibly women wrote the Torah.
These deviant groups are closer to Xianity than to Judaism. That’s exactly how Xianity began.
This Rav reminds me of the some of the right wing Christian evangelicals who seem to delight in throwing rhetorical bombs that will create much pain and divsion within their communities but to cloak their hateful comments in “bibilical truth”. Maybe Amar didn’t notice we recently celebrated rosh hodesh Elul and it might have been a good time to reach out to ALL yidden in a positive and loving way to return to true torah observances. Instead he feels more comfortable in the gutter.
Hasn’t he noticed that the “violence” he attributes to reform jews is actually being committed by the hareidim on an almost daily basis. When was the last time you read about some reform jews attacking a frum woman because she was wearing a sheitel and long sleeves. When was the last time the secular jews of Tel Aviv or Haifa burned trash cans and threw rocks at special Haredi buses that forced women to sit in the back.
Why doesn’t Amar clean up his own back yard before he fouls the streets of others with whom he has theological disagreements.
Reply to #43 : “These deviant groups are closer to Xianity than to Judaism.”
No, it’s much worse, Paskunyak! The X-tians, especially the serious ones, are much closer to us than the Deform, certainly in what they believe, and you amy even say in how they practice.
Reply to #20 : “… there’s no physical or biological defect she has that makes her any less of a person than anyone else. The people who ruined your sister’s life and will prevent her marriage are the rabbanim.”
What you are actually saying, DavidMoshe, even if you are afraid to say it, is that G-d and His Torah ruined Itchemeir’s sister’s life. Be consistent. It is the Torah that prohibits mamzerim to marry or to be married to the rest of us, not “the rabbanim”. I am sure you will try to explain to us that G-d didn’t really mean it. Good luck!
after reading the article it is clear to me that rabbi amar was not insulting unknowledgeble,tinok shenishba yidden.he was speaking about the reform leaders and obviously referring to their attempts to undermine the conversion system and other “status quo” issues. he does say we should reach out to them as they are our brothers-that doesn’t mean buckling under pressure re halacha!
so what does that help anything?
Story of what will make a difference:
the Lubavitcher Rebbe was once approached by someone who said that said that they would make an extra chair at their Seder for Pesach, to remember Russian Jews who were deprived of making a seder.
The Rebbe responded that instead, they should make an extra seat at their table and try to fill it with a Jew who otherwise would not be at a Pesach Seder.
This is called Pro-active, this is what will make a difference. Calling out the vast mistakes of Reform will only not do anything, it will also cause more of a gap between Jews. Best to try to be mekareve them. So many people are able to do this now, in their own way, but at least they are reaching out and really touching another Jew’s life.
The Rabbi is 100000% correct! As my Rosh Yeshiva has said over and over, “Reform & Conservative ‘rabbis’ should be sued for malpractice!”
Reply to #51 :
There were some who didn’t want to join, but I didn’t discuss the dumb or the mentally ill.