Flatbush, NY – A Brooklyn yeshiva wants parents and pupils to abide by an 11th Commandment — thou shalt not surf the Web for porn.
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Tiferes Yisroel, a popular all-boys Jewish school on East 35th Street in Flatbush, has demanded parents buy ‘Net-nanny software to monitor their households’ online activity.
Parents then have to assign a chaver, or friend, to get detailed Web-browsing histories automatically e-mailed to them by a $5-per-month monitoring service called WebChaver.
Administrators at the 763-student Orthodox elementary and high school say the system is necessary to prevent online experiences that just are not kosher.
“We are following the dictates of our [rabbis] — that as human beings, we cannot trust ourselves. This is proper education,” said a letter from school officials mailed to parents this month.
Some parents scoffed at the Big Brother edict.
“Of course I’m not signing up. They really just want to monitor the parents,” fumed one father, who noted that his two young children are not even allowed to use the home computer.
“I’m not paying $60 a year so they can monitor me. I don’t go to that school — my kids do.”
While other Jewish schools have suggested parents use the spy system, Tiferes Yisroel is the first local one to actually demand that they do.
Only about 20 parents have agreed, a source said.
Rabbis at the school urged parents choose an eagle-eyed, and preferably female, chaver.
“It is our strong recommendation that our chaver should be outside the immediate family — certainly not a male member of our immediate family,” the letter said.
WebChaver, run by a New Jersey-based nonprofit, will give school officials a list of the parents who sign up and their chavers.
Administrators at the school did not return calls seeking comment.
WebChaver online: http://www.webchaver.org/
Next will they be coming into our bedrooms to make sure all our ‘interactions’ as parents are ‘kosher’?
My feeling is , the female for a male user is probably a made up story.
This is insanity! Yeshivas have no business knowing what goes on in people’s homes. Besides for the fact that it monitors parents and other people in the home, what the student does in his own home is the parent’s responsibility and should remain at their discretion. I would be willing to bet that these “administrators” do not have their internet monitored.
I have a feeling the 11th commandment is already history
Absolutely creepy!
I heard that there is a well respected (chusheve) rav and mashpiah in boro park that demands from all of his misaplelim in shul and his followers to sign up on this monitor program so they know that some one is watching their internet activities.
Its a wonderful breakthrough!.
I would say that there should be a new paid organization that should be responsible for this. Otherwise they should be an isur yiched if you are not signed up to this service.
i want to monitor their financial books. the one who is choshed kesheirim should be suspected himself.
who will oversee the Administrators of the school?
What influences a child a considerable amount (if not the most) is not only what they see & learn at home, but what learn from their friends at school and what those friends see & learn in THEIR home. Many schools ban internet access at home (how we long for the days when TV was the only problem!). This “web-nanny” system appears to be a compromise. The school, in the best interest of the students, is allowed to set guidelines on the influences that enter their school. Any parent who doesn’t agree is free to choose another school.
Where do you guys think. is the b border line. And you will say to more modern people then your self. stop tight here. In our school I don’t want this modern thing. I’m almost sure that the lot mouth here will never say stop for nothing.
very good idea the dangers are enormous and the effects are everlasting. They are worried about the Talmidim not the parents.
Why would the parent’s web activity need to be subject to this scrutiny? To#6 who thinks it’s a wonderful idea, I stongly disagree. What if the parents have a need to surf sensitive, personal, subjects, such as infertility or worse? Or a private medical condition? This violates basic standard of tnzius and is contrary to “mah tovu ohalecha yaakov” where no-one see what goes on in someone else’s “tent”. There are hundreds of searches I’ve had to do that were highly personal in nature. Why on earth should the yeshiva administrators see what they’re searching for and why? What about my banking I do online – do they see how much money I have in my account?
Ultimately, we have free will and there has to be a sense that they trust the parents (!) to do what’s right and not infringe on their privacy.
“I don’t go to that school—my kids do.”
Oy Vey! Educating our children is a PARTNERSHIP between the teachers, parents and children. To succeed, as in any partnership, ALL PARTIES – INCLUDING THE PARENTS – must do all they can to achieve their goals!
The BEST way to teach is by example, if parents do not set the tone correctly in their homes then they are not living up to their responsibilities to their children – to the partnership!
Everyone who has even a smidgen of sense realizes we live in a time where “everything goes” there are no boundaries. If these parents want to raise there children “b’derech hayosher” then they should volunteer to comply with the school’s demand, to show their kids that it is dangers out there and we need to take extraordinary measures to protect the “fragile” minds of our children. Minds that can very easily be corrupted.
If the parents that said this really meant it, feel very sorry for their children.
אין אפוטרופוס לעריות. There is no one immune from dangers of the internet. The greatest Rosh Yeshiva or Rov is not immune, and no baal habos is either. Everyone needs a plan to insure that internet use remains within halachic guidelines. A yeshiva needs to demand this measure of protection for its talmidim. My internet activity needs to be open, without secrets. If I have what to hide, I’m already in trouble.
Perhaps the books should also be subject to scrutiny, before it gets to the point where outsiders want to audit them.
This yeshiva is being progressive, and are commended for this positive step. It’s much smarter than the unrealistic “banning” of internet or computer use. I hope this program works well for them.
A yeshiva that doesn’t do this is only in business to keep themselves employed and doesn’t give a damn about the chinuch and the neshamos of their talmidim.
A Rov who doesn’t demand this of his mispalellim is osid litain es hadin.
On the other hand, a Rov or Mechanaich who thinks thinks this will do anything to help those already ensnared is so stupid that he should be put in jail for Operating a Pulpit without a Brain.
There are tens of thousands of FRUM porn addicts r”l. Where do they go for help? To a leader who thinks Net Nanny will fix this problem???
When will the rabbonim and chushiv askunim who yell about concerts and Rabbi Slifkin’s books wake up and smell the coffee?
Where is Rabbi Twerski? The number of frum porn addicts is huge compared to the number of frum drug addicts. Where are all the people who want to save the world from Indian hair shaitels and the rabbanut heter mechira? Are they just noise makerS with nothing to add when the topic turns to real problems?
I don’t see a problem here. No one is forcing anyone to send their children to this so-called “yeshiva”. If anyone is stupid enough to send their kids to an institution that has these type of rules, they deserve to have some lady monitoring their internet.
Only people who are looking where they shouldn’t be looking object to this idea.
I will bli neder never accept a shidduch for my kids with the son or daughter of anyone who fights this idea.
Bad enough you don’t stop looking where you shouldn’t look. Don’t try to stop others from never starting.
To daas torah (No. 8)
Please get some help with your internet addiction to whatever garbage you favor and stop projecting your problems on to the tizbur in the name of “daas torah” and “yiras shamayim”. (At least you learned a few yiddeshe words before you went off the derech somewhere). MOst of us are NOT addicted to the internet and can control our yetzer horahs to guide our web browsing along with normal filtering software. If you and your small cadre of troubled rabbonim need some third party leering over your shoulder to monitor your behavior, maybe it even worse than I thought. In any event, get some help.
Ayn roah v’ozen shoma’as, v’khol maaseicha bsefer nichtavim. We have a monitoring system – and the penalties for violating it are severe.
Contrary to the rabbinically proposed ‘blanket web ban’, which cannot be implemented being that many people legitimately need web access, nobody NEEDS to watch porn. since there is no justification for the action, nor any accusation that parents are acting inappropriately, why cant the yeshiva ask to see the web history? it is far too invasive, but EMBARRASSING?! WHY?!
facebook and other social media are a danger to our chidren. Once our kids are”hooked” into the web , its almost impossile to get them out . There’s another side o your child which evolves into a world of promiscuity and profanity. Yeshivas and Bais yaakovs need to know this . they need to get into the heads of their students and learn how to deal with it . This is a new ill that society has provided us. Our Gedolim have only come up with stay away but noone has the answer how to “get them back”. It is highly addictive . I believe that if we impart our children with Simchos hachaim and reason to live, they will abandon this social media. However its none of the schools beezwcks what the parents do, and is a grotesque invasion of privacy . Note educators: if u find that your students are involved in social media, chucking them out off school is an instant death sentence , learn how to deal with them and overcome it and you’ll e a true educator!
I agree with #13 very strongly. It is not only MY personal and sensitive information that is at risk here, but the personal and sensitive information of others that is at stake. I am B”H very blessed to work from home for a large hospital. And I have a number of friends who work in this field as well, not only in my city but in other cities. I transcribe medical records which by definition contain personal and sensitive information. Often I have to surf the Web in order to document the information I am transcribing in order to have clarity There are always new procedures, new medications, new surgical equipment, and the like. If I have not seen/heard of it before, I need to learn about it, before I include it in the medical record, in order to make sure that what I am transcribing is in fact correct. This means that I am surfing the web for information about the human body. OY VEY!
Furthermore, nowadays with all the new regulations regarding patient confidentiality, HIPPA, etc, if I were to have Net Nanny on my computer and allow someone else to see the records, I would be in violation of FEDERAL LAW as well as in breach of contract with my employer and could be terminated, as well as subject to severe fines and penalties. And then I would not be able to pay my tuition……
#13 says: Why would the parent’s web activity need to be subject to this scrutiny? To#6 who thinks it’s a wonderful idea, I stongly disagree. What if the parents have a need to surf sensitive, personal, subjects, such as infertility or worse? Or a private medical condition? This violates basic standard of tnzius and is contrary to “mah tovu ohalecha yaakov” where no-one see what goes on in someone else’s “tent”. There are hundreds of searches I’ve had to do that were highly personal in nature. Why on earth should the yeshiva administrators see what they’re searching for and why? What about my banking I do online – do they see how much money I have in my account?
which yeshiva parent had the chutzpa to send this info to the ny post? what a chillul hashem. someone had to give them this info, unless a parent works at the paper! that is so sad! nebach…
do they have the right to know if the mother surfs the victoria secret website for her lingerie? or if they get heir medication from canada
(especially if it is viagra)?
privacy is privacy.
i can tell you that i am on the web a lot and do not go to porn sites at all.
I think that the solution to all this would be that a your spouse should be your chavrusa. This way whatever you are into, and your spuse is ok with it, then its noones business.
Ah yes … and then a kid stumbles on Ubuntu and learns how to make his own Boot CD (Or Boot USB sticks)… bye bye netnanny … and great thing about boot CDs they don’t save histories at all. Trust me your 13 year old kid already knows this because news travels fast.
They spend so much time saying how bad it is, but so little time really understanding it and how to actually make it work for the frum community.
Is there anyone else here who sees a comparison to a gonif vs. a gazlon?
So basically the Yeshiva is saying that a person using the internet has no fear of Gd seeing him if he is doing something wrong, and will not stop, but once the Yeshiva gets involved, he will stop doing it because he afraid of the Yeshiva catching him. The Yeshiva is actually proud that its students and their parents should be more afraid of the Yeshiva than of Gd.
What an incredible bunch of hypocrites!
Which Yeshiva is this?
VIN is careful not to name it, but what do they have to be ashamed of?
This is a great idea, parents aren’t allowed to watch porn either. So which ever parent is against this must be doing something they shouldn’t be doing.
Please let this yeshiva know that I have a service that will have people followed and report to the Yeshiva if they go anywhere they shouldn’t or talk to anywhere they should (optionally, also look where they shouldn’t).
Reports will be provided directly to the yeshiva, and profits split 50/50.
From the article sounds like the Yeshiva is the loser here. Only 20 parents signed up out of almost 800 students?? My advice to the Rosh Yeshiva — start shopping your resume — you’ve chose the wrong school for this kind of creepy, intrusive extremism.
I may assume that the comment asking for me was meant for my father shlit”a, but I’ll pitch in my response.
The addiction to porn is probably more widespread than drugs, and the privacy and anonymity enable this problem to fester and defy efforts to stop it. In the past, those interested in shmutz needed to invest time and effort to satisfy themselves. Today, mouse and click, voila. I have personally consulted to way too many cases, involving frum people of all walks of life. Include chassidish, litvish, MO, or whatever designation, married, or single. No, marriage is not a remedy for this. Yes, it compromises everything that is spiritual. One may appear devout and daven with kavana, but it’s all a sham if surfing porn.
By the way, the net-nanny programs do not provide the exact images viewed, just the websites – which is enough information. To those who need medical information from the web, there is plenty on normal, medical info sites, with zero need to surf porn.
Check out philiprosenthal.org, and check out guardureyes.com. In these days of teshuvah, everyone should take a personal inventory of needed work.
Moniter home computers? Hah!
We are living in the age of Ipads, blackberries, iphones & itouches. If children want to find dirt, they WILL find dirt.
As technology gets more advanced, We as parents need to be more innovative in how to interact with our children.
Children who are brought up in a healthy and happy environment do not need the internet to make them happy, nor do they want it.
The responsibilty is with the Parents, not the Yeshiva.
I wrote #13 , and sorry, #23 , but it doesn’t matter that the school is not asking for the list. SOMEONE sees the list and it is entirely inappropriate and a breach of tznius for other people to see what my husband and I need to use the internet for. We use the internet entirely within halacha, but for intensely private matters. IT is not the school’s business to tell me someone must see the list. Where does it end? Once they decide I am not trusted to use the necessary good judgement to avoid bad websites, why stop there? WHy not have a report of all the library books we take out each month, since after all, that can have a bad affect on the household too and knowing someone will see that list will stop you from taking out bad books. Why not have a personal spy to record everything you say and do always?
Once you say that we cannot judge for ourselves and take away our bechira, you are opening a pandora’x box to say that in all aspects of our lives. Ultimately, we need to have bechira to do the right thing.
I love how anonymously on the internet you all spout stupid, paper-thin excuses for being against this idea. Try looking the Rosh Yeshiva in the eye and telling him you have nothing to hide but there is no one in the world, including your spouse, you will allow to see everywhere you ‘go’ on the internet.
Doesn’t your spouse know everywhere you go in real life?
This only raises a flag if you are surfing UNkosher sites, it doesn’t monitor your everyday surfing to regular sites. If you are using the net responsibly, you have nothing to worry about and everything to be grateful for.
#11 are you speaking english? what r u trying to say?
The yeshiva should look at who and where they are getting money from , If the parents are crooks stealing peoples money to pay tuition , Maybe they should look at the clothing the mothers are wearing when they drop off ther children . That school has and i can verify cheating couples and at least 1 father that had to brake into a siblings house to steal money so he can pay the tuition ,
My son is in this Yeshiva and I can say the following:
1) This Yeshiva weather right or wrong is very sincere. They really care about this issue and about the talmidum in general
2) the letter implies that the Yeshiva will have no access to the records
3) They really did say they prefer a female outside the immediate family
4) The concerns brought up about banking, medical issues and other things was probably not foreseen by the Yeshiva
5) If the Yeshiva really has no access almost everyone can find someone close enough to be a chaver even with the personal issues
6) The problem is a very serious problem and they are at least trying to fix it
7) The one complaint is that they waited until August to mail out the letters
8) The Yeshiva is a very good one that will accept many students that other yeshivas won’t touch. They are not full of themselves. You can disagree but an attack on the Yeshiva is unwarrented
9) I personally am not happy with this, but I understand it
Absolutely great idea! BTW, I installed it in my office for my secretaries, and there was one girl who fumed about it, how come I wanna monitor her! She said if there is no trust she can’t work her! I told her, if u r so afraid of it, that means something is wrong with u, and if u don’t like it. U can leave now!!! And BTW, I monitor my self, and my wife gets a report from my activity… Not that I “chas v’shulem browse not kosher sites… Just cuz u can’t trust even ur self when it comes to web browsing
just wondering,is #13 the only 1 who can think ahead concerning personal stuff such as online banking and accounts in diff places where u dont want people haveing ur personal login info or how much money there is in ur accounts,it seemed 2 have slipped all ur minds,just a thought though!
This is a serious issue for some as there are many who suffer from porn addiction. I give the yeshiva credit for doing what is right. There are issues with this 1. Invading privacy 2. where is crossing the line 3. some with out this issue find it offensive. But I believe anyone with this addiction deep down wants someone to moniter there internet to help them stop!
44 -Q – I’m not “says” the original poster, but you say you’re in the health field. What are u a hatzolah guy? There definitely could be a problem of Hippa. You want to be monitored because you can’t control yourself, but most people can. And the reason we are here in the first place is because our work depends on it. Why are you here? “Kol Haposul B’momo Posul!” This is an invasion of privacy. Also, tell me how this will prevent issurim – when there is a will- there is a way -if a porn addict can’t get it at home -they go to a library. This school has no concept of chinuch. The proper way of chinuch is to explain why this is the right way, not don’t do it because it’s ossur or because big brother is watching you. Explain to the children -there are kosher outlets for fun and non-kosher ones. OObechartah B’chaim! It’s not a wonder why so many are going off the derech in our times.
It is the responsibility of a yeshiva to be mechanech its talmidim. It is not anywhere within the scope of their responsibility to try to be Mechanech the parents! What a Chutzpa for this yeshiva to tell parents in their 40s and 50s that they are not trustworthy and need to be monitored. This is about ‘control’! If I wanted – I could eat treif – nobody would know – but Hashem sees all – and that is what stops us from doing Aveiros. The internet is here to stay. Within a few years most will not be able to function without it. I am sick of the people who decide they don’t want internet in their homes but have no problem constantly doing their online shopping in my home or their children spending hours on my computer (requiring my help) to do their school projects. We need to teach our children how to live responsibly within the Torah guidelines. One day our children will be adults & will need the web as well. We need to teach them how to use it responsibly. This is the same as telling a 21 year old (adult) bochur that he can’t have a cell phone. At some point we have to start trusting our children and hope that they absorbed the Torah life that they experienced at home.
Those who visit only “kosher” sites need not worry?
Who decides what’s not kosher? Maybe my daughter shouldn’t get married because I will read CNN or The Jerusalem Post. If I read an article by a Mizrachi Rav, there are those in the yeshivish world who will yell, “kofer!”
I believe there is a proper “thought police” – it is HaKadosh Boruch Hu and I answer to Him. The rest of the world can maintain boundaries.
I am a student in yeshiva and this yeshiva is 100 percent correct in what there doing. Do you parents have any idea that when your child is home during lunch or when your not around what he can do with unfiltered internet how can anybody be opposed to it? This is your childs future at stake!! It is impossible for a boy to learn or grow if he is watching inappropriate material this yeshiva is going to be the reason that moshiach is one step closer
Reply to three, do u think before you barf in public or you just can’t control yourself, what a great idea, for example it’s not our buissnes if the student keeps shabbos at home or kosher or dose his home work or watches kul. Duvur asur etc I’m sure you get the point, couse we don’t send him to yeshiva to learn to be a good Jew, we don’t care the Torah is only for school time and mitzvos are only for rabbis, I guess the reason you pay all that tuition is because it’s your only baby sitting option, and than we wonder what happened to our children why ard they going off the derech. Perhaps couse there was no derech it was left in school my my what’s this world coming too, such a dumb comment on a frumeh site nebech.
This is not about monitoring the children’s internet activity. The Yeshiva has a right to do that. The problem here is that they are trying to control the parent’s behavior!
Disgusting idea from yeshiva to make a compromise with the tyma, the yeshiva should outright ban parents from having internet at home, and if all yeshivas would stand strong, the parents would give up the internet and it will be just like TV.
The excuse I need to have it at home is not an excuse, never ever, the question is: how much are you ready to sacrifice for chinuch? How important is chinuch to you??
To the yeshivah administration: kol hokovod to a yeashiva in flatbush to start such a program. We all know internet is a problem. Not all folks can live without it for whatever reason. Nobody is trying to intrude on anyones privacy. The partner only sees the sites name. Nobody will steel your bank acounts etc. In bp and willy children whose parents have internet are not allowed in school. Again, kol hakovod for standing up so tall and trying to help our future generations…. Its not a perfect solution but its better than doing nothing….
To those suggesting that your spouse be the chaver, you are making a mistake. Do not turn your wife into your mother or your husband into your father. It is a recipe for disaster – even for the cleanest surfers.