Jerusalem – Seven years ago, three of my books were banned by three dozen leading rabbis from the haredi rabbinic establishment in Israel and the US. This was due to my Maimonidean approach to resolving conflicts between Torah and science – that the account of creation is not to be interpreted literally, and that the sages of Talmud were mistaken in some of their statements regarding the natural world. While I sympathized with the concerns of these rabbinic leaders about the effects that such an approach could have for some members of their communities with simple faith, I could not accept the charge that the fundamental approach was heretical. It became clear to me that in my line of work, I could not continue to lead my life in the haredi community.
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But I was not (at the time) ready to define myself as modern Orthodox or religious Zionist. So when people asked me what I was, I replied with what I thought was an original response: If people who are disillusioned with Zionism are called “post-Zionists,” and people who are disillusioned with Judaism are called “post-religious,” then someone who is disillusioned with Haredism is “post-haredi.”
To my surprise, my “original” phrase had been used before. The label “post-haredi” (in Hebrew, haredi leshe’avar, abbreviated as harla”sh) is used by many people. Yet this group is little-known and little-understood.
Post-haredim are not to be confused with the Orthoprax Jews described in a recent Jerusalem Post Magazine article (“Haredi against their will,” October 14). Whereas Orthoprax Jews lack belief in the fundamentals of Judaism, postharedim do not (necessarily) suffer from any such lack of belief.
Instead, they are regular Orthodox Jews who no longer subscribe to haredi ideology. Some post-haredim remain in the haredi community, either due to inertia or due to their valuing their social ties and community.
Others secede, changing their manner of dress and moving into different social and cultural frameworks.
There is no clear line between more moderate haredim (such as many Anglo-haredim) and post-haredim; in Betar and Beit Shemesh, the revolutionary Tov political party rejects the haredi system of rabbinic authority, and is supported by a spectrum of people ranging from moderate haredi to post-haredi.
What is it that causes post-haredim to reject the haredi ideology? The answer to this question is best understood by analyzing how the haredi approach to Judaism developed.
Contrary to popular belief, neither Moses nor Maimonides was haredi. Haredi Judaism developed from Orthodox Judaism, which itself differed in small but significant ways from the traditional Judaism that preceded it.
Orthodox Judaism, as the term is used in the academic study of Jewish history (as opposed to in the colloquial sense of “observant”), arose in the 19th century as a response to the challenges of the Enlightenment and emancipation, and particularly in response to the assault upon traditional Judaism led by the Reform Movement. In the face of systematic and sweeping deviation from traditional beliefs and practices, traditionalists found it necessary to separate themselves into a distinct sub-community within the Jewish people and to develop a more conservative approach to Judaism in general.
Originally there were a variety of streams of Orthodoxy in Europe, but over time, extreme forms of ultra-Orthodoxy began to overwhelm the other approaches. In the face of the novel phenomenon of Jews organizing themselves politically (such as with the Zionist movement) and the new personal autonomy offered by the modern period, Orthodox Jews created organizations such as Agudath Israel that began to dramatically recast traditional models of rabbinic authority into their modern manifestations.
THE PROCESS whereby Orthodoxy became ever more withdrawn from the modern world was further assisted after the destruction of European Jewry in the Holocaust and the subsequent re-creation of Jewish communities in Israel and the US, when the structure of the Orthodox community changed. Instead of the synagogue being the focus of religious life and the community rabbi being the main rabbinic authority, the ivory tower of the yeshiva took center stage, and the heads of the yeshivot gradually assumed the reins of rabbinic authority.
Furthermore, with the increasing laxity and encroachment of modernity, the conservatism of Orthodoxy accelerated to an unprecedented degree. As contemporary culture became ever more antithetical to religious values and became harder and harder to keep out of the home, haredi Judaism responded by building ever higher walls in an attempt to keep it out.
The resultant problems are well-known to all observers of haredi society. The system of mass open-ended kollels, originally created to recover the losses of the Holocaust, has long since exceeded its original goals and is ultimately unsustainable.
Increasingly, the extreme conservatism of haredi society results in intellectual and social mores that are often excessive in their restrictions.
When rabbinic authority is vested in yeshiva deans who are isolated from wider society (and often “handled” by various assistants), abuses of rabbinic power are inevitable. And a siege mentality has developed in which any criticism of haredi society, even coming from the inside, is to be fought or silenced.
As a result, many people in haredi society – including both those born into that society and those who joined in a spirit of youthful idealism – have grown dissatisfied. Some, myself included, were forced out by dissatisfaction with the narrow boundaries of haredi thought, which stands in sharp contrast to significant classical schools of thought within Judaism. For others, it was dissatisfaction with various aspects of haredi society including its relative indifference to wider national issues of the economy and national security, heavy social pressures regarding even non-halachic lifestyle aspects and the application of rabbinic authority.
Ironically the post-haredi movement is occurring at a time when the haredi world itself is undergoing a process of reversal from its previous excesses. Many more haredim are entering the work force, and there is even a haredi division in the army. The Internet is radically changing the dynamics of discourse and free speech in the haredi world despite rabbinic attempts to restrict or even ban it.
Weekly magazines such as Mishpacha feature positive profiles of non-haredi figures and delicately air a variety of criticisms of haredi policies, despite the shrill protests of “establishment” publications such as Yated Ne’eman.
But for post-haredim, it’s too little, too late.
The writer is the author of a variety of works on the relationship between Judaism, zoology and the natural sciences. His website is www.zootorah.com, and he blogs at www.rationalistjudaism.com.
I am a great admirer of rabbi of Rabbi Slifkin. He is a great talmud chahcham and a scientist par excellence. How ever I disagree with his characterization of orthodox Judaism as a rational religion .
We are nation built on miracles, who believes in the supremacy of prayer and in a plan behind every minute occurrence. From the splitting of the seas through Eliyahu on Mt Carmel; from the sacrifice of Issac through the through the burning of the menora for 8 days when there was only enough oil for one day. We believe in miracles over science in prayer over reason and in fate over chance.
Many scientist have struggled with the issues Slifkin struggles with namely, science and Torah, yet no one comes to the conclusion that Judaism must be approached from a rational perspective. There is science and there is religion, Those who compromise religion in the name of science are no worse than those who comprise science in the name of religion.
He’s so great. But then again, I generally like controversial people. It’s easy to be chareidi; not so easy to be an emmesdike yid.
As a person, that owes my Yiddishkiet and beliefs to Rabbi Slifkin, I would like to say, His books may not be for everyone, but for those of us that went through the BY/Yeshiva system and still came out with so many questions, he work is fantastic. They are stimulating and as close to complete as you can get. His books are the ones that I reach for when I need some spiritual rejuvination and intellectual stimulation!
I prefer emunah pshuta all the way. If Chazal said it, it is so. End of story and no need to think about it.
I’m someone who grew up black hat chareidi – and though still frum – I hate the chareidi culture of knee jerk anti-rationalism, hypocrisy and utter ridiculousness. I’ve got a lot of respect for Rabbi Slifkin.
Bitter!
Where did rabbi slifkin get semicha to become a rabbi?
I find this article very much in line with my thoughts. While I live and raise my family in the char
the big problem some have with him is that he is willing to admit that some previous robonum where simply wrong when it came to science in certain case
and some either cannot handle that or want to admit it
one example he bring that the Talmud says that wolves have venom in their claws which we know to day is false. (halacha aspect if a cow was clawed by wolves but otherwise healthy)
are we to say simple that all the evidence we have today is wrong and the robonum are right and wolves do do have venom in their claws? Or do we say if they said it it is true no matter what todays science proves?
I find this article very much in line with my thoughts. While I live and raise my family in the chareidi environment I find myself identifying more with what I would call a post- chareidi mentality. I’m not sure if it’s because the chareidi yeshivas I went to didn’t sell me “the goods” or because I’m tired of all the mishugas that comes with the chareidi community. The charedi community fights tooth and nail against any outside thoughts. This is also a problem for someone considering living in E”Y. If you don’t identify with the ultra-chareidim and you don’t belong to the mizrachistim, where do you go? I guess this is why we need Moshiach so very badly.
The Chofetz Chaim once eloquently said, Believers have no questions and non believers have no answers
Many of the criticsms that he writes about have all or some truth to them. HaShem made all of us different and any time you have many people trying to live by the same derech you will have problems. That being said, Rabbi Slifkin’s disrespect and ignoring of Gedolei Yisroel (that is what comes out from the article)puts him on a very thin line. Our Mesorah is that we listen to the Gedolim of our generation for leadership and to ignore all of them and take your own show on the road is too much. You can identify with chareidi culture but still have your own rebbe and derech which is right for you. Without a Rebbe (either Chassid or Misnaged) you are falling into a dangerous pit. When you can’t find a Rebbe to follow, whether from the Chassidim, Misnagdim, Yeshivish, YU, etc. you are saying that you know better than any gadol. I find that hard to believe.
the revolutionary Tov political party rejects the haredi system of rabbinic authority
Man Malchi — rabbanan.
He is so right…but people need something to do if they are not otherwise productive, so they come up with random chumras. Michmir meshigah.
Count me in, I’m post-haredi. 8 more for a Minyan.
There is a significant oversight that begs discussion, perhaps even serving as an integral focal point.
Regardless of the contradictions and logical problems with the Torah that may present itself through the empirical nature of science a Torah Jew does not worry . We are comfortably assured in the absolute truth of the Torah and are not bothered. We understand clearly that what science presented as fact years ago and seemed logically sound and indisputable have since been proven inaccurate and inconceivable. As such science is time dependant and valuable and must be been in that context.
Therefore the absolute truth and nature of all things can only be clearly ascertained by consulting the source;The Torah. It is also indisputable that our Gedoilom are the most accurate representations of the Torah and its logic. This ability for the Gedoikim to weigh complex issues and to place the proper value to any given variable is due to their selfless non stop devotion to the principles of the Torah,to its laws and to avoiding even excessively all negative and improper interactions. iI think it would be safe to say that our Gedoilim represent all Chareidim and in terms of inflexible Torah mentality and severe attainment of the modern world they are at the forefront. Although we are not all on that level anyone who does acknowledge the Gedoilim and their stature acknowledges that their way is holy, pure and moat desirable.
This entire article is therefore biased and negative propaganda against the Gedoikim and their philosophies. Purity is painted as close mindedness by one who has no ability to judge and admits his biased nature. When a teenager goes off the direct because of a bad experience we try to bring him back but clearly do not give credence to his hateful comments.
Even more important and central is the authors admission that these very gedoilim believed his hypothesis and religious model were kfeerah. Clearly the Gedoilim are most able to determine the boundaries of kefeerah according to the Torah and have the ability to explain their true logic to any and all who are receptive to the Torah and its leaders. The very fact that Rabbi slifkin did not discuss his creative ideas and brilliant approach with the gedoilim beforehand shows at the very least that his downfall was of his own doing. After the dozens of Gedoilim who agreed that his approach is against halacha and Torah approach he blatantly disregards their opinion and would rather follow his own version of logic. He chose logic over Daas Torah.
I am aware of the numerous halachik issues that were brought to bear on the issue of his ideas and their kefira and they are complex and beyond the rubric of this comment however suffice it to say that rabbi lookin chose to follow opinions that our sages do not paskin like…
The michtav eliyahi , rabbi dessler explain.s very clearly that because god hides his face and works in ponderous hidden way , logic will not always lead us correctly and nay even blind us. He explains this as the rational for the genorroh that requires is to follow our sages when they say black is white and vice versa although our eyes clearly state otherwise. He ties this in brilliantly to purim and to mordechai and haman.
What is clear from his lecture is that Daas Torah must always be followed and that logic plays no role. Clearly Rabbi slinking does not abide to this philosophy and it is therefore his erroneous belied system that has stimulated this entire discussion and his opinions. They are therefore blemished and inaccurate and are the sad testimony of the destructive nature of the damaged spirit.
May we all find the strength to follow the Torah and not our hearts.
Thank you for posting this.
R’ Slifkin’s characterization of Charedi Judaism is accurate, important and should be analyzed and discussed.
In my opinion, Charedism’s time has come. It’s time to move on…
A thought-provoking essay, from someone whose works were condemned without his being given the opportunity to meet with the rabbis who apparently heard only one side of the issue. It is unfortunate that he was not given this chance, and he is probably understandably bitter.
Great article… words from his heart straight to mine. You will note that many of the Rabbonim who jumped on the bandwagon to sign the ban in which was written “we have read his books….” don’t even speak English, and could not possibly have read his books at all. Ahhh…. the “askonim”
Thank u LMSW #18 very wise words! Its a shame reading these negetive comments on das torah! The ones that cant deal with the chariedim r the narow minded
NO, CHAREIDIM ARNT PERFECT! BUT NO ONE IS!
QUOTE “a jew isnt perfect but judism is perfect”
Not a single commentator here has read Slifkin’s book.. I did read it, and i was not able to find any Apikurses in it, more than a Rambam and other great Jewish philosophers who existed in the the Jewish community in the past 1000 years.
If any one reads the books of ‘Ramchal’ or ‘Chova Halvoves’ Shaar Habitochen, Morah Nevochim, Yaavetz, would agree with me.
There is no question this ban was orchestrated by a few Meshgayim, like all bans, and the rabbis say Amen, Amen, Kodosh.
Remember the ‘Rambams’ Seforim and the Yaavetz’ were also burned.
Rabbi Slifkin stands taller in Torah knowledge than most of the Rabbis who signed the ban against him..
He has the same Daas Torah like any of the Rabbis who signed against him..
#10 your statement prooves as mentioned many time your kfireh.many seforim mention the fact that wolves have poison on thier claws as a matter of fact the shlo hakadosh brings such incident that happened . #32 first 2 lines goes to you to. and where do you take YOUR facts or history? from another human being and why is that boser vedom so reliable,huh?
“When rabbinic authority is vested in yeshiva deans who are isolated from wider society (and often “handled” by various assistants), abuses of rabbinic power are inevitable.
dont know him or his books but he apparently thinks “yeshiva deans” are too dumb to understand wider society and too weak to be independent of their “handlers” (hard to believe he can publish a statement like that. apparently hes the only one that gets it)
many of the “deans” that i have met are quite worldly and shrewd as well as great scholars and sincere humanists (who are also human and have been known to make some mistakes like the rest of us, i might add). i do think that there are plenty of real bums and small minded people that walk around wearing the black and assuming the mantle of leadership that ought not to and really cause major chilul Hashem. Not that i am a great fan of chareidi society myself but i feel comfortable being part of the community while accepting our shortcomings and keeping an open mind. people need to be anchored in life or the risk of being majorly off on something is very great. i haven’t been put in cherem (yet) so maybe i shouldn’t judge
unfortunately it seems that this rabbi has more understanding than the charadim will permit. A realization that “the way we lived for two thousand years is good enough” philosophy does not work if a person actually thinks or sees beyond the box.
It maybe take much time before the charadim realize this, but remember that the Rambam and the Ramchal were not accepted in their times either. PS, the Baal HaMeor did like like the Rif’s views on everything either!
Anyone who calls himself the “Zoo Rabbi” sums up everything .Yes there are issues in the Chareidi world but to disregard all authority doesn’t help.Who does he turn to when he has a shailiah?
The monkeys?
I’ve read two of his books and a couple of his monographs. They are interesting and thought provoking and seem to be honest, from-the-heart attempts by an intelligent man to reconcile the realities of the world with the demands of faith.
It is not easy. Better men and women than anyone here have broken themselves on those rocks. I have serious doubts about his ultimate success which I have discussed with him. There are fundamental philosophical differences between a scientific approach and revealed religion which may not be reconcilable. He is to be praised for making the attempt.
Slifkin has left Klal Yisroel with a choice: either a blind belief in Chazal, or a blind belief in the science of the minute in which you happen to be standing. Of course, the next minute, the blind absolute belief must change because the scientists have changed their minds. Everyone has a choice.
The Rambam’s views on science were strongly Aristotlean. There is no discipline of science today that is even remotely connected to Aristotle’s ideas on science. The Rambam scientifically believed in spontaneous generation and derided the non-believers as scientific ignoramouses. Slifkin has less connection to the Rambam than he has to T. Rex.
Rabbi Slifkin is soooooooo on target! The current Yeshiva/Chareidi/Chasidish system is so miserably falling on its face, its only real torah and real connection with Hashem without all the conditioning and bans that will get us closer to Moshiach, Hashem is given us a brain to use, not to put away on the shelf of society and let it rod there, because “That’s how its done” or “no questions asked” Judaism has answers for ALL questions, and there’s never a valid reason to prevent someone from asking or searching for the truth.
There is no use in reconciling science and Torah, it only serves the foolish to try and attempt it. Rabbi Miller Z”l was highly adept at debunking the anti-Torah science establishment with the best information they held at the time. Now that science has changed so much, we need someone else of that caliber to debunk the current positions that science takes in order to attack the Torah. Science always changes, the Torah does not.
This article is very self-serving and largely irrelevant. The vast majority of frum yidden are doing fine, thank you, without suffering from the lack of ability to know for certain which is the arneves and which is the shafan, or how to sort out the difference between bereishis and darwin. Someone I know asked Rav Soloveitchik (hardly a right-wing chunyuk) whether he was botheeres by the apparent contradiction between the Torah and science, and he said, sure, and I’m also bothered by the apparent contradiction between Newtonian physics and quantum mechanics, etc, but so what–Torah is what it is and thats what we believe in, and science is what it is and someday someone will figure it out, but it doesnt affect us as yidden.
Also, what is Slifkin talking about when he says that he’s using the “Maimonidean” approach–as if the gedolim who disagree with him are all arguing on the Rambam, and if the Rambam were alive today he would surely agree with Slifkin? Come on. And the rabbis are telling us what to do? Please. We’re asking for their daas torah on a hashkafic matter, and they’re telling us. Now he’s upset that they gave their opinion, since it’s vociferously opposed to his?
So you either don’t want to try to understand science or you don’t want to try to understand Torah or both. Rambam says the way to come to love and fear HaKadosh Baruch Hu is by observing and analysing nature. Without this we cannot fulfil these fundamental mitzvos.
As our science and Torah grows, each one will help us to understand the other until we reach the stage of ki mala haaretz de’ah…
R Miller tried to prove that evolution is impossible as it denies God and gives many examples to show how it cannot happen by itself. What is becomming more and more accepted is that evolution may have been the process used by God. This is very clear from the pesukim in chapter 1 of Bereshis such as let the earth bring forth living creatures etc. Ramban 1:26 brings Bereshis Raba saying nefesh chaya zu rucho shel adam harishon and many more places like this.
Is this guy a joke? Scientist are constantly disproving scientific theories and facts that were thought to be truth up to today. Many Physicists believe that the path light travels in our universe is curvy/wavy, and are already saying that the shortest distance between two points is not a straight line anymore. They admit they don’t even have a clue yet as to what is the shortest distance between 2 points. And this shmendrick says chazal was wrong because they didn’t know our modern day science. Scientist are now seriously doubting the absolute of Einstein’s theory of relativity based upon research conducted in modern day particle accelerators. I can go on about this all day, point being– did it ever even enter this guys mind that chazal might be correct and our measly brains just don’t know? The smartest modern day scientist admit they just aren’t sure — but this guy is certain chazal were wrong.
#70 the chazal did know (go find it yourself) que somewhere in mes. brochs
The readiness of so many people to consider Rabbi Slifkin’s position with an open mind might be the first sign in a long time to offer hope that the tent of Orthodoxy might one day be allowed to re-expand.
IMHO, too many yiddin have already been shut out or tossed out of the observant groups of klal yisroel.
The readiness of so many people to consider Rabbi Slifkin’s position with an open mind might be the first sign in a long time to offer hope that the tent of Orthodoxy might one day be allowed to re-expand.
IMHO, too many yiddin have already been shut out or tossed out of the observant groups of klal yisroel.
One can acknowledge his lack of understanding commentaries written by our ancestors, but to declare that they were mistaking, is pure Apikorsos and post Judaism.
The bottom line is that although throughout history we have morphed, changed and devided in to different religious sects, our gedoilim have remained constant.
Whatever ur preference we all admit that the way of the gedoilim is pristine, pure and beautiful although it may be a path beyond us.
Rav ashii, rashi, the Rambam, rayved, chazon ish, r chaim Kanievsky, all have followed the same path that our author calls “excessive”.
Throughout the ages the gedoilim fought modernity and built whatever fences were necessary to protect Jews from sinning in accordance with the directive, ” asey seyug latorah”.
To argue with the gedoilim, is arrogant and wrong and is clearly a result of personal trauma.
As for the dissatisfied? The right way is always the hardest and encounters the fiercest resistance.
All paths have troubles and problems for that is the pattern of life, to use these problems as a basis for rejecting one way is inaccurate and one sided for the other path most certainly has its problems as well.
All we can do is try our hardest to do what’s right as instructed by the Torah and not dictated by our whims desires or social beliefs.
As such the only true opinion is the Torah and the only true representation of Torah thought our gedoilim.
The insinuation that chareidi life which is so enforced by out present day gedoilim is the cause of Jewish dissatisfaction is insane, kefira in its own right and reeks of a personal agenda.
All in favor of the Torah will be bothered by the authors arrogance and disdain for tradition and mesoirah.
R. Slifkin makes some very good points in his article and I believe there is a need to define true B’nai Torah who don’t subscribe to the narrow view of the the general Charedi world. That being said, I don’t subscribe to Slifkin’s approach for many reasons, but what he has done is set back the “True Ben Torah” that has a broader view of the world (The Hirschien approach) by being lumped into Slifkinism. The primary issue that I have with him is that it is a dangerous path to go down when you question Maaseh B’rashis as it has been accepted to a broad audience that doesn’t understand the nuances of when and how to apply these ideas. It is not for no reason that no one less than the Rambam (who Slifkin likes to liken himself to) says that this should not be studied unless with a Rebbi Muvhak and on a one on one basis. I don’t think he is a heretic and he has sources for his opinions, but his style comes off as if he knows better than all of the Gedolai Yisrael that preceded him . Now this may be the case, but it is a rash and confrontational approach. A little Anivus and reverence would have gone a long way in defusing the Slifkin affair.
As someone who -by his own admission- is capable of nuance and sophistication, Slifkin’s inability to accept limitations within the Haredi community is surprising. He is as guilty of the same charges that he lays on the Haredim; being single-minded. Becoming Post- Haredi because they banned his books is throwing out the baby out with the bathwater
Its seems this is a personal reaction, than an intellectual choice.
Furthermore, his absolute belief in science is overrated; science changes its mind every year. Former axioms are disregarded, changed or left to lick the dust. The sages may not be 100 percent right on an individual basis on every issue, but as a group they have fared far better in axiomatic principles than science ever has.
The common denominator in all opposing movements in Jewish history – such as Tzdokim, Keroim, Maskilim, and the pre-war youth movements – were all about one thing: The Godolim are at the wrong side (or out of date) and THEY are (were) on the right side.. That’s it.
Though some of these Maskilim were indeed really smart and highly intelligent people who had made logical points at times, and attracted many people, which then resulted in massive movements sweeping through countries, but these people and their movements are long ago GONE and their grandchildren lost their Jewish roots.
So something miraculous Happened all these years to FRUM (and CLOSE minded) it was beyond the power of humans that they always managed to stay around , and that’s the answer to everything, that despite that the FRUM world might have their problems, they still don’t loose their legitimacy & Hashem manages to his world and always insures that we never vanish
V’Yakov Eish Tom Tomim Hoyo B’dorosov, That’s the recipe we got in the Torah directly utilized successfully by Yakov Avinu
It is amazing that not a single commenter has referenced the opinions of numerous halachic authorities who argue against R. Slifkin’s positions. It would be most appropriate to consider the opposing views before so readily accepting his ideas.
The narrative he presents as to the prominence of the chareidi hashkofa today is highly flawed. He completely overlooks the dramatic resurgence of the chassidische community in this country as if the litvish/kollel model is solely representative of chareidim. Chassidische yungeleit do work and yet are much more insulated from the secular world and secular studies.
His historical point as to the development of “Orthodoxy” as a 19th century phenomenon is a serious misrepresentation. Rav S.R.Hirsch used the term to differentiate from the Reform, not as a departure from millenia-old traditional yiddishkeit.
The very fact that R. Slifkin chose the JPost – an outlet known to attract intense anti-religious commentary – as the venue for his essay is highly informative as to his motivations and character.
if the kanuim would act with complete seriousness and midos tovos, and just react with real pain on the desecration of the torah, they would have much more people agree with them.
now a days many signators of the isurim just enjoy the fame and power.