New York – Plans for a women’s division of Hatzalah dedicated to assisting in emergency births have been scrapped as the women, after consulting with a respected Brooklyn rabbi, have instead decided to create their own independent volunteer service, titled Ezras Nashim, that will be staffed entirely by women.
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Ezras Nashim spent more than half a year trying to join forces with Hatzalah, under the premise that many women who find themselves facing an emergency birth situation were uncomfortable with male emergency medical technicians, many of whom are community members and even neighbors.
VIN News has learned that, in a meeting that took place just prior to Chanukah, four women representing Ezras Nashim explained the need for women EMTs to be called in childbirth situations to noted Brooklyn Halachic authority Rabbi Yechezkel Roth, the Karlsburg Rov.
Several prominent rabbonim and numerous others were present at the meeting which took place at the Karlsburg Shul on 53rd Street in Borough Park.
“Rabbi Roth listened for at least an hour,” one person who asked to remain anonymous was present at the meeting told VIN News. “He explained that historically the ‘miyaldos’ (mid-wives) were women and we see in our community that in the Chevra Kadisha, we have men attending to men and women attending to women. Our shuls are separate, our weddings are separate and there is no reason for our emergency medical corps not to function in the same way, not only in childbirth but in other medical situations as well.
As for how to implement having women serve on Hatzalah, Rabbi Roth said that decision should be made by Hatzalah’s rabbinical advisors. Rabbi Roth concluded by telling the women that the miracle of Chanukah, among many others, happened through the hands of women, the geula will come through women and that Ezras Nashim, also being brought about by women, should be blessed with hatzlacha.”
Following Rabbi Roth’s advice, Ezras Nashim arranged a meeting with Hatzalah.
“Hatzalah’s board told us that their members did not want women joining Hatzalah and that any changes to Hatzalah could potentially cause delays in service, which was obviously something that nobody wanted,” attorney and community activist Ruchie Freier who represents Ezras Nashim told VIN News.
In a news report that appeared Tuesday in The Forward, Ezras Nashim EMT Yocheved-Lerner Miller explained that the women decided that it was preferable to start their own corps instead of continuing their efforts to join Hatzalah.
“Basically, we did the Hatzalah routine and it is going to get us nowhere,” said Mrs. Lerner-Miller. “They are adamant and the goal now is to get going. That is how we are going to do it. We are going to do our own thing.”
Hatzalah CEO David Cohen confirmed to VIN News, that he met with Ezras Nashim, but gave no further details, saying he wished Ezras Nashim well.
“We did our homework and we realized that if we aren’t providing medical transport, we don’t need to be a licensed ambulance corps,” said Mrs. Freier. “Once we discovered that we didn’t have to buy an ambulance but could just contract out with a licensed medical transport provider, it was clear that we could do this on our own and didn’t need to join forces with Hatzalah.”
Members of Ezras Nashim will be trained as both EMTs and doulas or midwives and while the volunteer corps is being founded to aid women in childbirth, their members will be trained to assist in other medical situations as well. The group expects to be classified as a tax exempt 501C3 charitable organization and will be relying on donations from the public. Volunteers with Ezras Nashim will have to spend over a thousand dollars each to cover the cost of training, insurance, a medical kit and a phone.
“Our goal is not to encourage home birth,” explained Mrs. Freier. “We will assess just like Hatzalah assesses and while we will have a full medical board of advisors on staff, as women who have had children, we have an extra sensitivity and awareness of the situation that men could never have. What I find amazing is that Ezras Nashim is uniting women from all walks of life who want to be involved. Women from Manhattan, women from New Square, irreligious women, Chasidic women, so many women who have never had the opportunity to use their medical skills in a volunteer fashion are coming forward and asking ‘How can I help?’”
According to Mrs. Freier Ezras Nashim will be in full operation within the next few months with an emergency Telephone number.
To find out more about Ezras Nashim or to make a donation contact Mrs. Freier at [email protected].
kudos to Mrs Freier and Mrs Miller!! For standing up for what you feel is right Al Pee Daas Torah!!
Nice 1!
The silence from Hatzalah is puzzling.
Let’s hope that no women will have their health or their baby’s health compromised by calling an untrained new grad to treat them. Hatzolah has experienced EMT Paramedics and doctors. Just for Kovod to put women and their baby’s in danger is unbelievable.
Good – if you can’t join them – beat them
Fantastic! Not sure why hatzolah has been so stubborn on this issue, but I suspect there are a lot of silly politics involved. For the record, there are many frum, experienced female EMT’s out there, so this will not be all new grads. If a woman in BP goes into labor, there is no reason why her husbands chavrusah, who she sees every shabbos at shu,l should be the one to deliver that baby , if there is a female alternative available.
Obviously the rov has never seen a woman driver. Can you imagine women driving an ambulance????
GEVALT!!
As a woman I disagree. I don’t want to call Ezras Nashim to be told it’s supper time, bath time, homework time or Erev Pesach so call Hatzalah or 911.
I just can not see why ezras nushim can not work together with Hatzoloh..
If a patient calls ezras nushim to an emergency delivery why cant Hatzoloh stand by with an ambulance and take over the transport..If the patient feels safe by waiting for Ezras nushim its her choice but hatzoloh still does the transport…
Please dont quote the “forward” it is anti jewish
How wonderful and practical to have woman treating woman. However, these are not good times and I am just not sure about yet another organization that will drain our community of much needed public funds when Hatzolah is already doing the job. I don’t think anyone was ever really emotionaly harmed by having a local or even a neighbor deliver their baby. Maybe this is not so practical after all.
Typical scenario:
Everything sounds nice until you have a complicated birth. Hatzalah is called because these woman have NO EXPERIENCE and start to panic Hatzaloh arrives the woman are standing there in shock baby is blue not breathing…and there just looking at each other frozen and panicked because they are not trained for these scenarios and because they are not licensed to administer drugs.
Iv heard this first hand from an EXPERIENCED HATZALOH PARAMEDIC.
This a FIRST DEGREE SAKANA!
This will lead to something back. This is a lack of Tznius
Dear Readers, lets do a poll here, After all the buzz will calm down, it should never happen by you, but if Chas V’Shulem u have an emergency by a Female family member (even labor issues), would u call Ezras Nashim? or Hatzallah? i would call Hatzallah!!!
With all respect, this is step backwards. Instead of integrating the best men and women into a single unified team of first responders, we have this mindless decision to create separate operations which will undoubtedly result in greater costs, overlapping and duplicate facilities and delay in providing the needed emergency care for women. This is such a no brainer and rather than getting the best outcome, we get the lowest common denominator because some Hatzalah members prefer the status quo and will behind behind some rav’s psak to justify their neanderthal postion.
If they will stick to childbirth then I would give it a chance, other then that, I think its literally a skanah even for a one second delay.
And the truth is, reb cheskel roth’s endorement is very nice, but most importantly, they will have to build up trust that hatzhola has build over 35 years. And that’s a much bigger challance then money, and I believe that ultimatly, the tzibur will decide if this is something to rely on, obviously, they don’t get too much chances to prove themselfs.
Because its peoples lives.
I’m reading comments from both sides, and I can’t grasp it.
1. There must be some state regulations here regarding qualifications needed to serve as a first responder. If Ezras Nashim launches, its members will have achieved that in order to respond to calls. What’s all the nonsense about “inexperienced”?
2. No funds will be drained from Hatzalah. Some calls will, and that will reduce the drain of services by Hatzalah.
3. The new recruit comments are worse than stupid. New members accompany veteran members on calls until they build up enough experience to take charge on a call. That has always been the policy at Hatzalah.
4. NYFD will arrive within 5 minutes to get patients to the hospital. Are you kidding? 911 calls are rarely answered that quickly. That’s why we only call Hatzalah in our community, because they actually come quickly.
5. Politics? You bet. Every such issue is addressed from a political standpoint. Without a doubt, there will be turf battle and lobbying. Just another nisayon for Klal Yisroel to exhibit achdus, and i fear we will fail once again.
Some argue the reason woman can’t join Hatzalah is because Man Vol. and Woman Vol. will mingle, and there is an issue of Yichid.
This is such nonsense, and its being used by zealots who use the Torah an Halacah where it serves them.. as usual.
Again the system is working well for over 50 years and its not an every day problem..
Hatzoloh will be around for every person who calls them for help….
911 is here for those who dont feel comfortable with Hatzoloh..
Mrs. Frier will be here for those who dont want Hatzoloh or 911…
We are in the 21st century Limisparam. Women are doing everything else in the world. Hatzolo is just plain wrong. This is juist plain nuts.
“Good – if you can’t join them – beat them” are you insane?? who exactly are you beating , the hatzoloh members who dedicate their lives for others?? shame on you. u r in need of some real help. (please don’t call hatzalah)
Ezras Nashim may have to lift women and carry them out on stretchers. Are they capable of that?
What if there is a situation such as a fire, building collapse, or drive-by shooting, or other such situation in which there are both male and female victims? Will one EMS refuse to treat the victim in more pressing need of attention, on account of his/her gender?
Will the two EMSs argue and fight and sabotage one another’s ambulances or equipment in order to resolve the question of who does or does not attend to any given victim? Or over who has priority in a one-lane driveway or narrow hallway?
[Before you dismiss this as shtuss, bear in mind that before Benjamin Franklin organized America’s first volunteer fire company, competing fire brigades did just that, and many homes in Philadelphia did in fact burn down as the firemen from the competing brigades battled one another instead of the blazes.].
There are a couple of issues at play here.
I understand the why, but I am convinced about the how. Meanaing the cause is not correlating well to the effect.
Trained does not = Experienced
Hatzolah has had women members in the past in certain neighborhoods. The reason there were women allowed in those neighborhoods were because of daytime coverage issues. (SI, Y)
The issue of Yichud is only an issue on the way back from the call since the call itself pushes aside the prohibition
From a medical standpoint I think this is extremely risky, if they don’t tie Ezras Noshim in with Hatzolah. The risk of this new org losing a patient because of their lack of patience and persistence in trying to working through the details with Hatzolah . Based on what I have read here it does not seem like they have strong transport, mentoring or ALS support which an OB call can rapidly require.
I unfortunately foresee some challenges that may result in an adverse event.
As for the issue of who controls the scene if both organizations are on scene, obviously it will be Hatzolah since they are an ALS provider and by Law BLS (EMT’s) must relinquish the scene to ALS (Paramedics)
I was in a car accident on Route 80 in a snowstorm, and the Teaneck Volunteer Ambulance service and the Ridgefield Park Fire Department responded. They were very professional, and two of the EMTs were frum women who specially helpful and reassuring since it was Erev Shabbos. Despite the blizzard and slippery slope at the side of the highway they carried me out of the car and into the ambulance efficiently. Women EMTs seem to manage just fine and they learn how to manoever a stretcher competently despite patient’s weight!
let’s not forget that women are supposed to be home for their children, in the kitchen for their children & husbands, not necessarily barefoot! that’s a given, & we should aspire to go back to those days – days when yiddishe mama’s brought up their children, not mexican shikses and their ilk. and women aspired to have larger families.
that having been said, we can can move on.
as mentioned earlier, why waste money on a new organization? appeals, dinners, advertisements, raffles, chinese auctions, new garage space, new ambulances, etc. ? klal yisroel’s funds are limited, – very limited.
why can’t the hatzalah operator give a call of this type to a female hatzalah member? of course, they would only go to a call with other professionally trained female members.
no one doubts for a second it is l’chatchila for women to tend to women! if there’s a snowstorm, or a ruach (in this case a reason) she’aina me’tzuya, the men will be called in & the women will leave.
i think it is ok. would have been good had they combined with hatzola but if politics didn’t allow they are doing the next best thing. I understand why a women would want her baby delivered by another women but in an emergency you can’t be picky and a man could just as well save someone’s life as a women so yes in general it is fine to have a separate division but in the event that a man arrive on the scene first he would do everything he could to help the woman and her baby until further help arrived or she is transported to the hospital.
In skver it works out perfect together with Hatzola
Do you women REALLY think Hatzoloh is going to stand around, outside a house waiting to transport a patient that someone else has treated? That would be a waste of resources and probably a liability issue. AND, in New York, an imminent birth must have a paramedic attending. Where is EN getting paramedics from? It took Hatzoloh decades to get paramedics. (We also do NOT allow new members, or single members to respond to child births) The waste of precious minutes deciding which organization to call, searching for the correct number, or even waiting for a member of a different gender is why the whole idea is dangerous, and why Hatzoloh will not admit women.
Maybe hatzoloh is living in the dark ages and wants to keep it an All Boys Club. After all Cholent on Thursday night with the women members just won’t work. What possible reason can they give for not wanting this? Halacha wise? Non issue. They can be seperate but equal. Tzinius? men and women will not go on call s together .Capability? There are as many qualified female doctors , midwives, obstreticiians etc… as men. Don’t make it like women are some weaker less knowledgeable people. Hatzoloh can be very closed minded especially people at the top. Hatzoloh needs to grow up and smell the roses .
So Rabbi Roth sends EN to Hatzolah’s Rabbinical board, yet, somehow the issue ends up on the Hatzolah Board of Directors. Interesting.
As a Hatzolah member and as someone who has worked with a municipal ambulance co. I can tell you first hand the pitfalls of having women on the same team as men. When you have a situation where you have people working closely together one-on-one, you developed a relationship, a routine and typically an understanding for one another. Especially in the medical field, you have to almost read your partners mind when treating a patient.
Ezras Nushim may start as a group to help women in labor, but if part of the Hatzolah system, it will no doubt lead to wider involvement.
When it comes to treating a patient, it’s almost silly to say that they are more comfortable having a female treating them. At that point in child labor, all they need is the assistance.
How many of us go to a female Doctor, have a female hygienist at the dentist, massages or for women, a male OB. The list can go on but my point is, when you are dealing with a professional and require treatment, the barriers typically disappear.
If they want want to go and start a separate organization, then do so but it cannot happen under the Hatzolah organization.
Does it really make a difference male or female – what is really the heart of the matter is that there are probably ‘halachic’ issues of having women work closely with Hatzalla – and is this really an issue when one is receiving medical attention? Next we will have women dentist for women, etc – there appears to be something wrong here. If the women are trained as valid EMT’s and will respond to MALE patients as well KOL HAKAVOD – other wise we are getting into the ULTRA HAREDI mishegas!
As a woman, I don’t get the being embarrassed part. If Hatzoloh is embarrassing, call 911!
I and many others like me, prefer my (frum) male ob/gyn since I trust his expertise. The birth experience should depend on that. If you are embarrassed to be treated by a male, maybe you are just too immature to have a baby!!
I would surmise that Hatzoloh does not want women since 1. It works, why fix it , and 2. They are looking at big Tznius problems by involving the women!
in terms of feeling uncomfortable i believe 911 would be the most discreet and least awkward way about it. if e’n were to show up at your house it would be way more public and embarrassing by showing the obvious nature of the emergency as opposed to hatzala coming to your house which can mean any sort of medical situation. lets not forget, any emergency scene attracts curios onlookers such as a passersby and neighboors. so ms freier and ms miller you have no gain here other than bringing up the issue of women’s rights. yes it is an issue however don’t jeopardize people’s lives by pushing your agenda, pick something else
I hope Ezras Nashim and The community understand, that if they don’t become a “NYS Ambulance service”, Rather they become a NYS First responder Organazation, without there own ambulances. They probably will not be able to get to the Emergency scenes as fast as Hatzaolah would, Because NYS would not allow Ezars Nashim to use them to use Emergency lights and Sirens in their Personally owned cars, and for that matter any color light as a first responder organization only
Well in new square they have female hatzolahs for childbirth only.brilliant idea.my biggest fear was when I was pregnant that my neighbor hatzolahs would not have to deliver my baby.just for the record they are some hatzolahs who love attending births they are bniveled.
This is exciting that Ezras Noshim is heading forward at full throttle. I was asked to be a dispatcher and am looking forward to being one. Watch out Brooklyn residents, this will be a stunning organization, we will do it with or without you. And those who will see the advantage of using this organization when in need will have the most amazing emergency birthing experience B”H.
The problem with the ezras noshim is as follows. Lets say hatzolah gives them the go ahead and this is how the call goes out on the radio: H-base, Do we have any units for a code-5 (lets say this is a esras nushim call) no one answers the radio, they have to start calling on the phone, because remember there is a rule now, that only code-5’s can be takin by females and they spend an extra 1 – 2 minutes , when a regular member could have been there. G-D forbid this is a serious situations and a baby could have brain damage, is it worth risking mothers and babies lives. because a woman would feel more comfortable with a woman……????? think about it…. (I know what your argument will be next. No, once this enforced, it will stay that way, a male member will not feel comfortable going to the call)
Halachically it is preferable for women to be delivered by women. I can’t understand why anyone would go to a male OB if they live in NY. There are super qualified, high risk female OBs who are as good if not better than any male OB out there. And a frum one, are you nuts? What kind of frum boy goes into looking and caring for women’s private parts as a profession? Professional, no way, they enjoy every second of it. And if they say they don’t they are lying. This is a great idea, I hope it spreads to the 5 towns.
This should be the worst thing that should happen in a womens life that an hatzalah member should deliver the baby as long as the baby is healthy mezul nisht visen fun kein tzuris Amen.
Ezras Noshim women will not only be equally trained as the men are, they will be superior in that they will have training as labor coaches. In an era when some Chassidic men even avoid direct eye contact with women, avoid sitting next to them on buses, shouldn’t they want to protect their wives from having to expose their bodies to multiple frum men from their block. Yes, to save a life it’s permitted, but if we have an alternative with better trained emt’s who are compassionate, considerate women, we should embrace the project. Moshe Rabeinu did not seem to think that men were more appropriate for a safe delivery than Shifra and Puah. In a few years from now we will look back and wonder how their was a time when frum women had no choice but to let neighborhood men into their bedrooms.to examine and treat them during delivery. BH that we have a wonderful, safe alternative! Halacha respects a woman’s emotional needs and lets her husband ride with her even when not medically needed. A reassured, relaxed women is medically at an advantage. Having a trained competent woman whom she can relate to at her bedside will be of tremendous benefit at such a time.
The real issue here is the time it takes for help to arrive. If you have to “wait” for a certain gender to respond, damage can be done when seconds count. That’s why Hatzalah is right by not accepting woman for certain calls. It will just slow down the operation.
As far as Ezras Nashim… I can’t imagine anyone with a true emergency calling them. If you have time to call them, then you should go to hospital and have baby there, by a midwife, if you prefer.
Hatzalah is a men only organization because it provides services to the ultra-orthodox jewish community. Some people here seem to forget that. And by having different members for different calls.. Would just slow the process down. And we can’t have that!
Hahtzalah claims they can’t accept women because the rabbonim have spoken.
The rabbonim have also banned the internet. Has Hatzalah started tossing members who have internet access? Or as usual are people following the words of the rabbonim only when it suits their personal agendas?
A childbirth is not a heart attack!! Seconds won’t make a life and death difference! Why do so many here assume that women are slower than men? In the secular world women do ride ambulances and their outcomes are just as good. Women can be just as quick, efficient, capable, and sooooo much more warm, compassionate and reassuring than men. It’s like the “horseless wagon” an invention some people are not yet ready for…. Guys: have you made other changes in your life in this decade?! Or are you still only using phones that are plugged into the wall? This is the best innovation that will just be a fact of life very soon! No one is taking away a woman’s free choice to call a man if she prefers that. And if the worry is that Hatzala who is heavily funded by the state will get less donations…..by that line of thinking we should not open any new Yeshivas or Mosdos cause the old ones will get less money! Hatzahla will have less expenses once a substantial load is taken off them, so it will all even out! The Director of this project is a well established attorney who is doing this because there is a need. Mrs. Freier needs no “thrills”! Her life is busy enough BH.
Great idea. I think the next logical step is to have more of our women attend medical school.
I think part of the problem is geographic. New Square is very small, so requesting a specific responder won’t cost a lot of time. When a call comes in to Hatzolah in Brooklyn, the closest available volunteers respond. There are many volunteers available at any given time, so the closest one (or more) can respond almost instantly. But once you start specifying who can and can’t answer a call, you’re eliminating some of the closest available first responders. Women don’t have a longer response time because they’re slower. They just may (or may not) happen to be in the right area at the right time. When you call 911, you get whoever’s available, male or female. Telling the closest volunteers not to respond because they happen to be male would cause the delay, and that would be dangerous.
And, for the record, as a female, I find Hatzolah’s volunteers to be professional and understanding. Regardless of how many volunteers responded, they were never “standing around gawking”. They addressed the issue(s) at hand, and did what they had to. Nothing more, nothing less.
This is exactly how Hatzolo started 30 yrs ago. people yelling, they’re inexperienced, its skonos nefoshos, just call 911, (even stories that people died by calling them), bla bla bla. and it turned out to be the best innovation possible. people just hate change and will criticize those who do have guts, until they see the success.
we really appreciate all of you who try to make a change for the better.