New York – There are a million and one things to complain about regarding the Ichud HaKehilos Asifa at Citifield. Pretty much everyone has read the excellent post by Dovid Teitlebaum pointing out the fallacy of blaming the Internet for problems within the orthodox Jewish community. I wholeheartedly agree that positive chinuch is far more effective and valuable than bans, broad policies, filters, and fear.
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I also understand that the Ichud HaKehilos believes that there is a legitimate reason to sincerely fear the Internet. I am willing to grant them the courtesy that the imaginary Internet boogeyman is the most pressing issue in the orthodox Jewish community for a moment. However, it completely boggles my mind how they can justify, on their own terms, one of their executive decisions.
The latest advertisements of for the Asifa are out and they proclaim that the Gedolim endorse the Asifa. Interestingly, there are no specific American Gedolim who are mentioned and I have not heard of any bold faced names from America in support of the Asifa other than R’ Matisyahu Solomon.
The new ads also announce that tickets are now on sale. You can have the privilege of attending the Asifa for just $10.
There’s just one catch. 50% of orthodox Jews cannot attend. The entire Asifa is for men only.
This is unconscionable.
If the threat of the Internet is so great, as the Ichud HaKehilos claims, how in the world can they make the marquee event for awareness and education about the Internet exclusively for men?! Are women not susceptible to the harms of the Internet? Should mothers of our children not be educated about the dangers of the Internet?
I honestly cannot fathom how the Ichud HaKehilos can say on the one hand that the Internet is so dangerous and then on the other hand exclude the mothers who are home with their children more than their fathers and the teenage girls who are just as present online as teenage boys. If anything, the girls have more access to computers and Internet than boys in yeshiva!
Again, I don’t think anyone needs to go to this Asifa. But for the Ichud HaKehilos who feels that this is the most important issue of our time, there is absolutely no excuse for limiting attendance to men only.
This is just further evidence to me that the project is flawed, lacks leadership and vision, and is very hard to fully endorse.
Rabbi Eliyahu Fink serves as the Rabbi at the Pacific Jewish Center in Venice California. Rabbi Fink attended the Yeshiva of Far Rockaway and is a Talmud of Rabbi Moshe Brown. Rabbi Fink is an ordained Rabbi while attending Ner Israel Israel Rabbinical College
Rabbi Fink runs his blog at http://finkorswim.com/
Until they dont find a bold solution, ei: own jewish internet provider or someting else, talk wont make too much an effect.
And how do you plan to make a mechitza? the stadium is oval shaped.
If anyone who’s been following this hasn’t yet read between the lines, it’s a HUGE $$$ making event with a ruse….
I asked my Rov ( a prominent man within the Brooklyn circles), he didn’t know what I was talking about. When I explained it to him, he laughed.
The siyum hashes is going to have a mechitza. They could have one here too.
If the problem is that they cannot make a mechitza, may I suggest that they sell at the expo some kind of “filter” for the eyes?!…
The question is great one but the answers is a simple one. Our Gedolim sometimes don’t know what a sin is and have a hard time imagining it. Only when they are told that the at-risk numbers are skyrocketing do they start to realize that something is wrong here. Even then – do they get it. only when it’s too late do they really panic and make asifah’s. My guess is that they haven’t yet seen the down spiral in girls and woman going off the derech.
The cost to attend is $10??? who in there right mind wants to pay money to go to this??
If this is truly an earthshaking problem why didn’t the Ichud also invite more Orthodox Rabbis rather than just Charedi Rabbis??
Citifield has nearly 42,000 seats. Do you know how hard it is to sell that many tickets to an interesting event, let alone to a ridiculous one? My guess is that there will be an embarrassingly small turnout and the decision to exclude women is not going to help them fill seats. Somebody stands to lose alot of money on the narishkeit. This almost irrelevant event is getting way too much attention.
#5 The original ads had stories about women using the internet and it ruining their lives. I’m not saying the stories are true, but the Ichud used them to make their point.
We all know why they are making the event, and we all know the harms of the internet, Unfortunatly, i will be unable to attend the event, but there is a need for it.
Years ago when one wanted to view inappropriate material (No, not just Peoples magazine) they would have to go to gas station, and hope noone would see them buying it….
Now you just go online— (disable your filter) and surf..
We all know its wrong– we just do not want to admit, that we (even adults need a filter).
Maybe we should have an anyomous survey online— if you ever saw something that your wife would kill you if she knew you looked at it online—
I bet she probably would never let you work with a computer again–
This is about awarnesss—
There is a need- and lets grow up..
I think they dont want women there— as they are affraid so many of them would want a divorce if they found out what goes on…..
Some have speculated that they don’t want to pay another quarter of a million for the Mechitza. But, the real reason is because this is the only way that will get the husbands out of the house and allow the wives to check their browsing History without them knowing to discover all of the sites they have been visiting.
IY”H I will be there are the event, I will be outside by my booth selling Internet service, we are offering a big asifa discount: buy 10 Internet devices and get 1 free.
What do they hope to achieve with the Asifa?
– People who have internet suddenly stop using it? I’m sure all who read this will agree that its not going to happen.
– Everyone who doesnt have will get a filter/buddy? Even if that would happen, it is easy to bypass, plus all cellphones / new gadgets have wifi access.
I’m sure all the people who will go to it WILL learn much that will open their eyes as to what goes on – which could be opening a can of worms to some naive, sheltered people.
I think women SHOULD be invited to the Asifa, and its more important than the men that they go – they should know what a huge yetza hara the internet is for men; how destructive it can be to them and their family life and that the women are generally the ones who run the home, what comes in & the chinuch of the kids.
If you bring 25,000 women to the Asifa this will calculate to at least 5000 baby sitters while they are at the stadium…I believe it becomes too costly and every yiddishe mother who cares about to have a erliche house will be more then happy to hear from their father or husband what the Asifa is all about..
Of course there will always be critic , the sooten who is working 24-7 to be metame our generation will find thousands of critics that something is wrong with this asife…
If anyone feels its politics or money involved just stay home but dont bash the organizers…
Better they should have rented out the Met’s Minor League stadium, the Brooklyn Cyclone’s MCU Park. That seats about 8,000, so this way they wouldn’t be embarassed to sit in a stadium that is going to look quite empty.
I almost want to go just to see the low turnout, but I suppose that would be self-defeating.
What happened to yiddishe temimus, and acceptance that gedolim direct us how to proceed?
I fail to why this Asifa engenders such vitriolic responses. Why must there be sarcasm? No one is being forced to go. If you don’t want to go then just don’t go. There is no need to mock it.
I am a woman and as crazy as it may sound- I actually have been addicted to the internet. At first it wad harmless stuff and then I started getting tempted to explore. Baruch HaShem I have never gone into chat rooms but I struggle not to open the computer…and each day I say I will download K9. I was really interested in going to this asifa and I am very disapointed that women are not invited. Doesn’t it say “al titosh toras imecha?” Mothers spend more time with their children usually and they need to be educated for themselves (I know many women struggling) and also, for their children. If they believe in their cause then its important for all of society. (The tznius issue could be dealt with like the siyum hashas.)
Of course the women were not invited, they are supposed to be out working!
All of you are quite befuddled – what did they do at the Siyum Hashass in Madison Square Garden years ago, and all the other Venues that it was held.
The Sick part of the whole haredi community is that they DO NOT KNOW how to work in the real world – and that is what is causing us all the problems we have today.
As soon as I saw the ad to buy tickets to attend this oifgebluzene asifa. The alarm rang….
NOTHING MORE THAN MONEY MADE EASY
I can almost bet that all these asifa bashers surf the net and visit inappropriate sites otherwise that wouldn’t bash it , they don’t want this asifa cause it gives them a guilty conscious, its like the hatred from an am haretz to a talmud chacham, they are so under the yitzra dareiyas and at such a high level of tumah, that’s why they talk that way, if they were acting in a kedushadig way they would be all for it
the writer is mistaken that no american gedolim signed on to this.Rav Dovid Feinstein Rav Shmuel Kaminetsky Rav Malkiel Kotler among others are prominently signed on the “kol korays”.Why be negative to something that can possibly help some people and hurt no one?
The Gedoylim know what they are doing, It is well known that men are the ones that suffer the problems of the Intrenet. You don’t see women walking around with those smart phones with the big screen looking at who knows what kind of tumah.
Why are Women attending the Siyum Hashas, did the learn the Daf, which shul has shirum for Women for the Daf
Because in their minds, women are the property of their husband, so the husband would go home and enforce the no-internet-in-this-house rule..
It’s three weeks away the asifa. This is very easy to fix. All they need to do is have locations in Monsey, Lakewood, Brooklyn etc…. with live video of the asifa. Win win situation.
Men only? yes-because-It’s not about the internet, It’s to rein in the Bloggers that are publicizing shortcomings & coverups.
This whole thing is ridiculous because:
1) the gedolim preaching have no idea how to even use the internet
2) ever heard of wi-fi? Can you filter that? its beyond your control
3) whoever does show up will be so bored they will have to resort to using the internet they brought with them (iphone, android, ipad)
4) the nashim will be home using the internet until the husband comes home.
ahhh mamish a kiddush hashem birishus harabim! why not yankee stadium too via live hookup
What is absolutely horrifying and is perhaps a more corrosive issue than the Internet , is one that the the author and commentators below are bringing to the forefront .
There is a blatant disregard and lack of respect for our gedoilim. Every individual feels his opinion is the most logical and as soon as the gedoilim say anything that conflicts with their little works they throw the gedoilim under the bus.
A common theme is that gedoilim are gullible enough to be misled by their oppressive gabbaim or are too sheltered and unrealistic not understanding the complicated dynamics of modern day society .
This disdain is indicative of a new modern man who is egotistical and self centered , the world revolving around his very limited periphery.
One thing to keep in mind is that our gedoilim are brilliant in mind and brilliant I’m ther dealings wig people which is why they have made it this far…
Furthermore logic withstanding there is a element of siyata dish maya theyvare granted on making decisions that will lead klal Yisroel along the path that may only be recognized as preferred in hindsight.
Third of all it is important to differentiate between how we make decisions and how the gedoilim . Our decisions are a product of our logical facilities , thinking styles and personality traits. As different as each of us are is how diverse our thinking is. Our every decision is subjective connected to our lives and our preferences. Opinions , feelings and facts are all intertwined through our life’s experiences and become a convulaluted an flawed system.
Our gedoilim on the other hand look to the Torah for guidance on any given issue. The tora is neither subjective nor flawed and cannot be mistaken. A gadol who is capable of defining and interpreting the toras approach can never be wrong. Evaluatin their decisions based on logic and effectiveness is redo ploys for the ways of god are hidden and cannot be evaluated only years later. The gedoilim have access to the toras guidance which is above logic and is eternal.
I will end with one of the greatest examples of this written by rabbi dessler .
Mordechai hatsaadik warns do not go to the party. Logic dictates we do not anger a king who can and will easily destroy us. We are not supposed to rely on a nais
My comment was cut off…..
So Mordechai illogically warns from attending the party. The Jews listen and all is well. Achashveiroish is appeased and a catastrophe averted.
Eleven years go by and a similar scenario arrises. Haman is in need of some attention and requires all to bow. Once again Mordechai adopts a dangerous illogical approach and klal Yisroel begs him not to anger haman. This time klal Yisroel is even more confident in their approach because last time they proved to be correct. So again they beg. Mordechai ignores them and angers haman and we all know what happens next……
If one views the story from a logical standpoint Mordechai is the naive illogical extremist and klal Yisroel the modern day clear thinking body..
But out sages tell us that all of the logic is wrong and that what really went on was as follows…..
Attending the party caused the decree in shamayim that allowed haman to convince the king years later . Had the Jews not gone to the party the entire episode with haman would not have occurred. Furthermore Mordechai as a gadol understood that hashem was going to allow haman to win so he did the only thing he could do and decided to tedeem the son of klal Yisroel by doing now what they should have done then…and so he stands up for the Torah and angers haman . Although in simple terms of cause and effect and logic he created the problem in reality he was providing the only solution.
Clearly this illustrates the hidden and beautiful ways of the gedoilim which is beyond logic and worldliness transcending natural revs and tapping in to the toras all knowing, eternal and all encompassing existence.
May we merit to respect and follow the gedoilim who are extensions of the Torah and beloved by god ..
people can agree or disagree with the details of the venue, speakers, and endorsers. but cant we all agree that this is a huge problem and the organizers have GOOD intentions and DO care to solve this problem and the problem is a big one. somehow fink managed to get us all focused on something irrelevant just so that he can spew his venom on orthodox jews with good intentions.
I have no idea why they didn’t include women in the asifa but I have one big hope and that is because they are going to talk about pornography. I am a woman and I read and hear about how rampant internet porn is and I still find it shocking – kal v’chomer a nice charedi sheltered woman (I do not self identify as charedi, I am a bais yaakov and BJJ graduate though, and call myself “normal orthodox” I am not modern -I wear a sheitel and cover my elbows and knees)
A point about covenant eyes, I have it and if you get it through WebChaver instead of directly through covenant eyes it is only $4.99 a month so you can save the $$.
it seems i am the only one who noticed that one of the ways to get info is by email…..kind of ironic, don’t you think?
What is the event about? From one source I heard it’s about “kosher” tech, from another it’s gathering to try to ban internet again then some say it’s come kind of shmutz addict event ?
I’m sorry but this op-ed is soooo stupid, there are million reason why this is not appropriate for woman, but the main reason, if the mothers will also come, who will watch the children they should not go onto the internet???!!
The KLAL of “koy soimar L’beis yakov, vesagid livny yisroel” apply’s here too, Men need a mens talk, a rabbi or a baal darshen screaming at the podium won’t cut it for women, and women need a seperate event, their lingo, their tone…..
And there are many other reasons, but if some people hate everything the rabunim want to do, they will never be right.
Like someone once told me, that its all bill gates fault, as before he was around, no one ever went of the derech, and since kosher phones came out, not one bochur has also gone of the derech.
last year our sons yeshiva called us down to an emergency meeting regarding the problems of the internet and cell phones. both mothers and fathers were asked to come. why is this asifa any diffrent are we getting frumer this year?
why hasn’t anyone mentioned the fact that 2 hours before the speeches begin vendors will be showcasing their filter products for the oilem to purchase. all of a sudden this important event has become a money maker for those selling the useless filters. hope someone sets up a hotdog stands out of his minivan to feed the hungry masses. anyone know if tailgate parties will be allowed by the askonim.
So a rabbi who has a facebook page is going to tell me daas torah versus rabbi matisyahu solomon and a list of atleast 50 rabbanim that signed off on this, all of them are talmidie chachamim who sat yomom v’leila and learned, and here comes an ordained “you must be kidding” rabbi……….
Can you order he tickets online ?
First off I work in computer security and am very familiar with filters, keyloggers etc. There are some that are easy to bypass and others that 99.9% would not be able to crack. They are stealth filters and cost around $100. They log all activity including passwords and are invisible. So the idea that good quality filters can be easily bypassed is completely false.
The author seems to suggest that filters are not the answer and we need to find ways to live with our kids being exposed to the internet by educating them more about Jewish values. This is what is called a partial truth. While its true that we need to deal with technological advances and acclimate ourselves better to the world in which we live, that doesn’t mean that we should ignore the dangers and difficulties of unfettered access. That would be pure foolishness. Not to protect our children’s eyes gives a message to the child that your are not worth protecting. Most issues with troubled kids lies in a lack of self esteem. Pay attention to your child and find out why he/she feels so badly about themselves. Acknowledge their struggles, encourage them, love them & set firm limits including internet access.
Hi , Eli, we went to yeshiva together. nice to hear that you are a Rabbi now , good luck.
but I think liberal california has gotten to your head. First off if you wouldve calked the organizers, you wouldve gotten answers to all your questions.
A. it is very hard to keep such an event separate. the hope is that it will influence tge families from within.
B. yes the mashgiach is the number one backer behind this. the net is the number ill for klal yisrael today and must be addresses.
c. yes this is a fundraiser for tge org that deals with these problems.
d. if peopl have better solutions plz address thwm to the org. they want tohear from u
There are definite dangers with the internet. These dangers however, have little to do with kids at risk. Few of them attribute their being at risk to the internet. Internet is a bigger threat to frum adults. They have the ability to watch inappropriate material, and chat with members of the opposite sex. This asifah is welcomed by me.
The beauty of VIN, is that this debate, gets to the forefront the real issues. Parnussah, chinuch, how rebbeim aren’t treated well, waste of klal funds, and the way our society expects people to have large families, yet every yeshiva considers itself a private organization when it serves their interests. The lack of acceptance, love, by mosdos, and all the problems with shidduchim. If you are wondering why the boy went off the derech, it may not be the internet, it may be that his father is so stressed trying to make parnussah, that he doesn’t spend time dealing with his son’s needs. If you wonder why a girl goes off the derech, perhaps she sees the shidduch crisis and the inequality or prospects to get married, and her family is living on the brink of crisis, and she says “I can’t live this life”. Speeches NO Action YES to help the poor.
בשאלת “כינוס הכללי” (נגד טומאת האינטערנעט) הוריתי לתלמידי הי”ו
אל תלך בדרך אתם וכו, ואינהו בדידהו אנן בדידן וכו’
ר’ יצחק ל”ב שליט”א רב ור”מ דקה”י וואודרידזש נ.י. יצ”ו
The answer to everyone is quite simple.
1) people who are ‘in love’ with their internet will NOT fork out $10- plus the expense of getting there.
2) there should, ideally, be a night for men and a night for women.
3) even better would be free, local, small discussions/lectures/asifos which are much more personal and to which internet users would be more likely to come.
4) who says the main internet problems are with the men?! What on earth do they think the bored women at home do?! or the disillusioned girls?!
Thus, small, local, free asifos, one day for men and one day for women – solves the babysitting problem too…..
The bais hamikdosh was not destroyed because of zenus. It was destriod because of sinas chinom. Lets see all these so called rebbe’s should make peace with there brothers then they can be a example for others how to lead a life
The bais hamikdosh was not destroyed because of zenus but rather because of sinas chinom. Lets see these rebbes make Shalom with there own brothers first then will know that that really mean the pertzas hador
for married couples if both agree, the use of the internet will not cause them to go off the derech, its only for unmarried boys and girls, which brings us to the problem of shidduchim if we get the boys and girls married [the earlier the better] there would be no internet problem. so lets make a big shidduchim event.