PARSIPPANY (VINnews) — On Thursday evening, the first night of the Agudah Convention, Rav Elya Ber Wachtfogel, one of the senior Roshei Yeshiva in America, was extremely adamant that the Yeshiva system must be restructured, to encourage boys to start dating at a younger age.
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The Rosh Yeshiva’s comments were part of a panel discussion on the Shidduch Crisis.
He said that “this could be the biggest tragedy facing Klal Yisrael today”, and called the years that a girl waits for a shidduch “Gehenom.”
The virtual session was moderated by Mr. Gershon Barnett, who has been extremely involved in tackling the crisis, and is very supportive of the NASI program.
The panelists were Rav Elya Ber shlit”a, the Rosh Yeshiva in South Fallsburg, renowned Lakewood Shadchan Rabbi Shlomo Lewenstein, and Dr. Yossi Shafer, a therapist.
Mr. Barnett first discussed the causes of the crisis with Rabbi Lewenstein and Dr. Shafer, and he later spoke one-on-one with the Rosh Yeshiva to discuss solutions.
Horrific Numbers
The panelists presented startling and tragic numbers. According to their research, 25% of girls aged 24 are currently not married, and 13% of girls aged 29 are unmarried.
Rabbi Lewenstein said that he knows families of good girls who wait months just to get a date. He added that some 21 year olds–who are not overly picky–have never even dated.
On the flipside, virtually all boys get dates in a timely manner.
Mr. Barnett explained the “age gap”. Because of population growth, combined with the fact that boys begin dating around 22 years old, while girls begin at 19, there are hundreds more girls in the “dating pool” than boys.
What about Emunah?
Mr. Barnett asked the Rosh Yeshiva about the claim made by some people that Hashem will take care of the crisis.
The Rosh Yeshiva responded that it’s not shayach in this situation to have emunah that Hashem will solve the problem without us getting involved. “If you look at the math, you can see that it is not possible for the numbers to add up, and in that case, it’s not shayach to say that Hashem will solve this problem without our intervention,” he said.
The Solution
The Rosh Yeshiva was very adamant that the solution is for boys to get married at least one year younger than the current trend.
He said that they should travel to learn in Israel one year sooner than they currently do, or they should skip the year in Israel and study there after they get married.
The Rosh Yeshiva said that there is no inherent reason that boys should not be mature enough to get married, and supported that point with the fact that Israeli boys marry earlier, yet they are not born any more mature than American boys. Rather, they know that they will get married so they mature faster.
Mr. Barnett said that he went with Rav Malkiel Kotler to discuss the issue with Gedolim, and ask if they felt that age 21 is too young for a boy to begin. Rav Chaim Kanievsky pulled out a Rambam and said that it was perfectly acceptable.
The Rosh Yeshiva pointed out that even girls who get married eventually suffer terribly.
He said, “Even if they get married eventually, they went through ten years of Gehennom. “
Rav Wachtfogel said that if the other Yeshivos would agree to restructure the process, he would gladly send Fallsburg bochurim to Eretz Yisrael one year earlier.
Mr. Barnett closed out the session by saying that he once asked one of the Roshei Yeshiva of BMG of the yeshiva to agree to not accept any boys above age 21.
The Rosh Yeshiva responded that if the crisis was that bad, why does he not hear about tragic stories and suffering from more families and Rabbanim?
Mr. Barnett urged people to get more involved and be more vocal, so that the leaders of Klal Yisrael will be prompted into action.
Nobody discusses the following topic, but ignoring a problem doesn’t make it go away: It’s not just the unmarried girls. It’s also the bochurim who were physically created in such a way as to fulfill Chazal’s requirement of ben shmone esre lechupa. When you think that you are smarter than Chazal and instead of 18 it’s 24, there will be consequences. Very unpleasant consequences. Some bochurim may be nichshal. It’s impossible to know what percentage is. Some aveiros can have a life long ripple effect. I am not chasidishe, but I admit that they got it right with everyone marrying off at 18.
Not questioning, just curious!
Why is 21 the optimal start age? Why not 20 or even 19 and a half?
I married late and had a nice marriage, but I think it is better to marry earlier and have more energy to raise and love your children.
Also, I think that the younger people marry, the easier it is to connect and less issues to divide.
Surely this Talmudic authority is aware of the mishnah that states בן שמונה עשרה לחופה. Why is he then staking out a position that differs with it?
A bit later, on the very same night, as part of the same convention (in the Q & A “I’m Asking for a friend…” segment), two leading mechanchim, one a great Rosh Yeshiva and mechaber, another a moreh derech for many young people, when asked about a similar proposal, took issue with it.
R. Wachtfogel may hold one position, but it is not necessarily universally shared by גדולי ישראל across the board.
Interesting to use Rambam as a source, as Ramban also says there: “The way of sensible men is that first, one should establish an occupation by which he can support himself. Then, he should purchase a house to live in and then, marry a wife…in contrast, a fool begins by marrying a wife. Then, if he can find the means, he purchases a house. Finally, towards the end of his life, he will search about for a trade or support himself from charity” (Hilchot De’os 5:11).
Would this not mean that the yeshiva educational system and curriculum are to be completely overhauled, so that young men of 21 will have already met the above criteria?
If so, that’s even bigger news than saying they should marry at 21.
How about the school crisis in lakewood and in many other jewish cities.
Maybe they should convene a bes din and be matir the cherem derabienu gershom.
A gut vuch! Yasher koyach. It took this long to finally figure it out or for a Rosh Yeshiva to say this?
Instead of putting more pressure on the boys to marry if they’re not ready, why not have the girls wait until they are 20 to start dating? This way they can get some college or career training before they have the responsibilities of running a home.
‘Not to accept a boy over 21’ ..?
That’s pushing it.
The point is well made though. Hopefully this will help.
Is this really a ‘crisis’? Maybe all those 100,000 25 year old ‘boys’ NOT WORKING is the crisis. Of course they won’t marry- they have no livelihood, no gelt… oy
QUOTE :
Mr. Barnett urged people to get more involved and be more vocal, so that the leaders of Klal Yisrael will be prompted into action.
That’s the key. Thank you.
For Pete’s sake… what is the rush?
is he going to guarantee them all jobs?
Will Mr. Barnett pay for the shtreimels and bekishes for all the new chasanim?
Mr. Barnett is an expert in the sugya of “migdal haporeiach ba’avir”.
I understand going to E”Y. However, it is basically the end of a bachur’s best years of shteigeng. A good bachur is learning well in his USA Yeshiva, has the momentum going, then he goes to E”Y, too many distractions, switching to kodshim (as opposed to Nashim uNezikin which he hardly knows) and is not for him. Dealing with diros and landlords. Eating out on Maalachei Yisroel and Paran (those are the eidel boys) full of sem girls… Zkan Roshei Yeshiva R’ Moishe Weiss from Monsey said he never met a bachur who came back from E”Y better than when he left. The best you can hope for is he didn’t go down. I remember from my own experience…
And now REBW wants to make those few short years of learning even one year less???
I would add, and they should also get the COVID vaccine base on the same logic.
“The Rosh Yeshiva responded that it’s not shayach in this situation to have emunah that Hashem will solve the problem without us getting involved. “If you look at the math, you can see that it is not possible for the numbers to add up, and in that case, it’s not shayach to say that Hashem will solve this problem without our intervention,” he said”
The biggest question is: where are the gevirim? It is perfectly understandable for a Rosh Yeshiva to say, “Why am I mechuyiv to give up my entire Moised to resolve this issue?” Indeed, it is a tremendous sacrifice, because the Rosh Yeshiva will lose the opportunity to be moiser his derech to talmidim.
The gevirim, those who have millions of extra dollars, need to step up to the plate and say, “I will FULLY fund a kollel which will allow for all your talmidim who get married young to learn in your Yeshiva until 24.” How much could this cost already? A million a year per Yeshiva (50 yungeleit times 20,000)? There are HUNDREDS of balebatim who are pulling in HUNDREDS of millions of dollars every single year.
Where are the gevirim?
Ironic to have gershon SAVITSKY aka Barnett speak on this.