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In last week’s Shidduch Forum, a girl asked about a boy who, on the third date, asked if she would mind if he vaped. She said that she did not mind that he vaped in general, but wondered if she should mind that he needed to vape on a date.
First I want to commend the panelists who were clearly open to marrying a boy who vapes. With that said, some of them (understandably) seemed to feel that his behavior was concerning and they seemed hesitant about the shidduch.
Here are some excerpts:
“Is it socially acceptable to vape on a date in our circles? I would think not”.
“It is absolutely a red flag and a legitimate matter of concern.”
“Do you want to marry someone who is engaging in life-threatening behavior?”
I personally do not like vaping, and I’m very happy that none of my kids vape (as far as I’m aware.) I also see why asking to vape on a date is unusual.
But the reality, whether we like it or not, is that many Yeshiva bochurim and married men do vape, and medical experts believe it is safer than smoking.
And here’s the thing. Since there is a major shidduch crisis, wouldn’t this be the perfect opportunity to show girls that they need to put aside their personal discomforts and turn-offs, so they can marry an overall good guy?
Girls need to realize that in the current matzav, they need to make sacrifices. They will never find the ideal guy, and vaping is an area where she can learn to deal with something annoying, assuming that this guy is someone who shares her values and she’s compatible with. (Especially since she doesn’t mind a guy who vapes.)
I’m concerned that when we give shidduch advice, we focus too much on perfection, which causes girls to get older and not be married, while they wait for the perfect guy. If he is an otherwise good guy, and she doesn’t mind vaping, why not say: “Listen, there will always be something about your husband that annoys you. You need to accept a certain level of discomfort, and the big picture is that you will IY”H marry a great guy and have a great family.”
If every time a girl brings up something disturbing, we legitimize her concern and warn about “red flags”–are we not sending a message that she should wait until she finds perfection? Won’t she feel like she is choosing someone second-tier if she says yes?
There are things about my wife that drive me crazy. And there are many things I do that drive her crazy.
That’s not an anomaly. That’s called MARRIAGE.
I should mention, one of the shadchan panelists said exactly that. She said that if they are compatible, and vaping does not bother her, go for it.
In my opinion, that should be a unanimous viewpoint. If girls want to get married and not wait years for a shidduch, they need to learn that “Mr. Right” is not someone who does everything perfectly and fulfills a magical wish-list. It’s somebody who overall shares values and is compatible, and also does things that are annoying and uncomfortable, and you need to learn to accept those things and embrace the discomfort.
–A non-shidduch expert making an observation
The views expressed by the author do not necessarily reflect those of VIN News.
“Girls need to realize that in the current matzav, they need to make sacrifices”
REALY?
Boys can take advantage of “the current matzav” and do whatever they feel like because girls “need to make sacrifices”?
At first i thought the issue was dropping for vaping in general – which is a fair argument on both ends,
Vaping on a date..? – that’s downright disrespectful. You should drop him for not for vaping, rather, for not being a mench. Clearly, this boy needs a prep talk on how to treat others let alone on your pursuit for your significant other.
In my humble opinion any young man (boys should not be dating) who would think of vaping on a date should be immediately eliminated as a protentional marriage partner. Vaping is bad enough, but to consider vaping on a date is inconsiderate, rude and indication of an addiction to nicotine.
What do you all have to say about a man who needs a shot of bourbon during the date?
Just like there are qualities I need in a husband (yirei shamayim, Baal middos, height, etc), there are things I need him not to have – bad middos (like vaping on a date), lack of basic respect (I.e. vapes on dates), and yeah, I want him to not engage in unhealthy behaviors like vaping. I am completely entitled to my “personal discomforts and turn-offs.” That’s literally how finding a spouse works. Don’t like it? Then don’t marry me. Hashem has no shortage of shidduch prospects for me.
Dating tip: girls like when you’re not carcinogenic.
Unless this girl is really desperate to get married she should not go out with someone that vapes, the more so if he tries to vape on a date. An adult smoking or vaping points to an addictive personality and to not be able to hold back from vaping during a date shows a more serous form of addiction. You state that “medical experts believe it is safer than smoking”. You can’t use “safer” when it comes to nicotine – there is nothing safe about nicotine. You should have stated that it’s less dangerous but not that it’s safer. Vaping is still dangerous. One does not need to have a degree in psychiatry or medicine to figure this out.
What if, instead of vaping, his habit was legalized marijuana? Would your answer be different?
Get educated. Vaping is a action. It could be a million different things you are putting in your body. There is scientific evidence to suggest switching to specific chemicals through a vape are safer the cigarettes. There are also things people vape that have no idea what’s in them can be much worse the cigarettes and I’m not talking about cbd.
My friend’s dating son has a dilemma. The girl bites her fingernails the entire date and insists on 2 cups of black coffee at the start of her big ordered meal. He’s 26 and asking for suggestions.
Vaping causes issues such as popcorn lung.
What if the girl starts telling loshon hora on a date? What if the guy forgets to say a borei nafashos after having a drink on a date? What if they accidently drive over the 25mph speed limit?
We all know what technically the correct behavior should be, but are any of these something to drop the shidduch over?
The list of what if questions in shidduchim are endless. But by focusing on one specific item you are dismissing the entire whole person. You cant really judge 1 action without context. And that needs to be weighed against your own life and expectations.
Did they do everything wrong in life and this is just another thing? Or are they the most perfect human ever and its just this one minor slip up? Or perhaps – like most of us, we are somewhere in between.
Does the girl smoke and the guy asking if he can vape on a date just not menchlich – or does she abhor any smoke and would not be able to deal with it in her face.
Contrary issues in shidduchim – and in life in general, are all about looking at the bigger picture in context.
Ignore the advice & sermons , daters. Look at the whole person ; expect flaws , nobody’s perfect including the sermonizers and the well- meaners. Drop the stingy cheapos & liars , however. Those 2 traits are no-no-s.
Enjoy the dates and break a plate soon.
Yeah , just keep on making it harder to match up. Everybody has something , and let individuals make their own decisions. These therapists , rabbis , video talkers and columnists are the new rulemakers ? What’s going on already ??
There are certain boys that should be an automatic ‘No’. For instance boys that have a reputation to hit their chavrusa during a disagreement, or even if they only spit. They are likely to do this to the Mrs. There are other disqualifying traits which I won’t mention. But then there are are shortcomings. If a boy vapes on a date, that’s a shortcoming. If a girl wipes her nose in her sleeve (on a date, or maybe even not on a date), that’s a shortcoming. These 2 kids seem like a match made in heaven. Or maybe the girl is so ‘tav lemaisav tan du’-ish, that she’ll go for it happily. Or maybe she doesn’t mind these things so why should someone talk her out of it? It is not true to say that a boy or girl with such character flaws isn’t marriage material.
Vaping isnt the issue, what happens if she marries a non-vaper who starts vaping later? Will she ask if she should divorce him?? Her question shows that she clearly is not ready for marriage, or doesnt feel chemistry with this guy. Nothing to do with his vaping. When the right guy comes along, his bad habits wont bother her. And vice versa. Marriage isnt about marrying Mr/s Perfect, its about building a life together.
It’s very simple. Get to know him. If you fall in love, the vaping is trivial. If you don’t, the vaping is irrelevant.
All the rabbanim & talmidei chachamim who smoked cigs & pipes years ago found their rebbetzins anyway. How about if a boy likes baseball and cholent on Tuesdays ?
“And here’s the thing. Since there is a major shidduch crisis, wouldn’t this be the perfect opportunity to show girls that they need to put aside their personal discomforts and turn-offs, so they can marry an overall good guy?”
Are you out of your mind?
There is no heter to ingest these substances, addictive ones at that, too, and it should NOT be “accepted” that many of them do it. If they do, they should stop.
This is not a matter of “personal discomfort”. It’s a matter of not marrying someone who engages in a self-harming habit which may be no better than smoking, depending on which study you read or which doctor you ask.
As well, besides for the sakana issue, it’s also a bizayon for a ben Torah to walk around like that, addicted to using a chemical inhaler.
go out again , and ask him what are his thoughts about vaping, smoking , drinking – are these tayvos or shitos – have a good conversation instead of playing games
my hunch is, this boy was testing the waters , to see the comfort level ( or a self centered arrogant kid that needs to grow up- he too needs to get married
)
in the end its your choice & choices have consequences – all kinds get married yet the supply of girls that want good boys far exceeds the supply
look before you leap , and once you do make the best of it
vaping is cool. Whats everyone getting worked up about?
1. Did offer a eCigarette ? If not it’s not someone who shares?
2. Is he vaccinated no doubt he should be as he doesn’t care what in his body!
Make sure he isn’t a hyp·o·crite.
To all the boys and girls reading this article, accepting a husband that vapes is not a sacrifice whatsoever. And I think it’s very misleading to think so, the main reason smoking would be an issue in marriage, is because our girls don’t smoke, and smoking releases a terrible smell, and it’s just not fair to burden your wife with the smell while she can’t even taste it. Whereas vaping doesn’t leave a stench while it usually smells pretty good. Sacrifice means understanding that other people don’t think just like you, and accepting that, and understanding that some things you do, get others nervous, as normal as it feels