MONSEY (VINnews) — On his most recent episode of the “Halacha Headlines” Podcast, host David Lichtenstein discussed the timely issue of abortion in halacha.
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In addition to Rav Moshe Shternbuch of the Badatz Eidah Charedis and Rav Dovid Cohen of Gvul Yaavetz in Brooklyn, Mr. Lichtenstein interviewed reform Jewish pro-abortion activist Mara Nathan of San Antonio, to argue in favor of abortion.
When asked how she can justify extinguishing a healthy fetus that, if left alone, would become a healthy human, Nathan responded that she has a “different starting point”. Her “focus is on the autonomy of a woman to make a decision about her own body.”
Mr. Lichtenstein responded by asking about the legal prohibitions on things like taking drugs and prostitution. If people have full autonomy on their bodies, why do states have the right to prohibit hard drugs and prostitution?
Nathan’s response was a lengthy silence, followed by a bit of stammering. Then she replied: “I don’t know anyone who thinks that abortion is a good thing or a positive thing. But many of us have to make hard choices, and it’s unclear to me why the US wants to legislate what a woman can do with her own body.” (She did not address the strong proof that neither men nor women have autonomy over their bodies.)
Mr. Lichtenstein later observed that 63 million fetuses have been aborted since Roe v. Wade, and while some may have been due to difficult circumstances which were against the will of the mother, there have certainly been millions of scenarios where women were irresponsible and aborted their child with no good reason or justification.
Mr. Lichtenstein then got Nathan to agree that she opposes abortion in the third trimester, because the baby is viable. He then asked her, “What about a woman’s autonomy over her own body?”
He emphasized the point that obviously the real issue is not autonomy over a woman’s right to choose, but rather a fundamental discussion over when life begins.
Following the interview, Mr Lichtenstein made the observation that while the “autonomy” argument may sound appealing, it clearly is not a rational argument. People do not have autonomy to wear what they want, take the drugs they want, or commit medically-assisted suicide. Autonomy is a hijacked term, and the real question is, does your autonomy, which is clearly limited, allow you to kill an unborn fetus?
LISTEN TO THE FULL DISCUSSION BELOW
What do they mean by a woman’s autonomy over her body allowing abortion? The woman has her body and the fetus has a separate body. She has no right to murder the separate body that is temporarily inside her.
This is not about woman’s autonomy or about when life begins. This whole debate is about women being as promiscuous as they want without consequences. Except that biology gets in the way. Abortion is a tool to deal with inconvenient biological differences.
Funny how the same people who say we cannot tell a woman what to do with her body, were forcing all women to have vacciines a few months ago.
Reform people/Rabbis are basically full fledge Goyim.
They don’t observe Shabbos.
No family purity (Teharas Hamishpacha)
Pro Intermarriage.
Pro Gay Marriage.
Basically besides that they were born Jewish they behave like Yidden.
Correction on my previous comment:
Basically besides that they were born Jewish they DONT behave like Yidden.
It’s amazing to me that the shortage of infant formula came up just when the left started campaigning for abortion rights.
Reb Dovid Cohen was spectacular. His grasp and clarity of the sugya is fantastic. It’s a shame we hear so little from him.
all talk ,( mostly talk) sitting on the couch making podcasts is a start. BUT with a net worth of a “BAIS” … , if he was serious about what the gedolim that he interviews think , he would meet with them and say i have this much gelt to set aside for tzorchei tzibur whats the best way foward ..
p.s. he does some but many many gevirim who are carrying the burden feel he is not in it…
Mr .Lichtenstein picked a dopey woman to interview, not the brightest bulb in town. Prostitution and drugs effect others around them in society. If someone is high on drugs they can do dangerous stuff, or since it a narcotic and addictive it will cause them to do desperate things. If not looking at the Torah, a person should be able to say they do not want to continue life, and take their life working with mental and medical staff, since it does not effect anyone else. Unfortunately, we are not as free a we think we are! The issue here is, when does life start? Even according to the Torah if someone kills an unborn child he does not receive a murder charge he just has to pay some money. What is that telling us,if not the difference of a live person and an unborn one.
I hear both sides of the issue, and think, if the baby cannot survive on its own the mother should have the right to say, take it out of me, I don’t want it,and I don’t want my body to have anything to do with it. After it is viable on its own, a mother cannot say kill it – as it can survive without the mother, it becomes an independent life for itself just inside her
Without touching on the issue of abortion itself, the issues with drugs or prostitution are societal issues and not personal issues. While I find David Lichtenstein interesting to listen to the fact is these issues have plenty of differences that makes them largely incomparable.
If you are not sure… ask yourself how you would feel walking past an abortion clinic vs a druggie hangout. One you might feel moral outrage over the other you might be fearing for your personal safety.
To all the “pregnancy is a punishment for promiscuity” people, I would also like to point out that marriage is not seen as promiscuity by civilized people.
Banning abortion will result in young girls sticking knitting needles into their cervix or traumatizing their genitalia in order to rid themselves of unwanted pregnancies. Many will die. Many will be maimed. Of the millions of abortions that were for “convenience”, how many would have resulted in the traumatic ruin of a young girl’s life if forced to carry to term or to get illegal self abortion? Your theoretical support for a ban is all fine, good and logical. But will certainly result in death and sadness for the nation as a whole. Does this not matter to you? Especially since the Torah actually does not explicitly ban the practice when needed. Do you actually care about Torah, or just pushing your narrow little shtetl agendas?
her: since men can’t get pregnant, therefore women should be able to abort.
makes total sense……
she actually argued that since there is no mark left on a man, i.e. pregnancy, after being intimate, therefore to make it fair, women should be able to remove that mark, i.e. the live baby.
How about following Daas Torah instead of parroting Evangelical Christian talking points. The OU and Agudah have both made nuanced statements on the matter. Spend some time reading the approach of our gedolim and understanding their positions and concerns. This issue is one of Halacha and Psak Rabbonim it is not an issue decided by right wing pundits or left wing pundits. Let’s sop the partisan nonsense and stop corrupting Halacha and true Torah values