A Mechanical Engineering Discovery That May Affect Scotch Whiskey and Tequila Kashrus

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Ben Terebelo stands inside his distillery in Utica, NY

By Rabbi Yair Hoffman for 5tjt.com

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This article is about a fascinating mechanical engineering discovery.  We can line up which people will be upset about this article and which people will be happy about it.  Women, generally speaking, will be happy about it.  Men will be upset with it.  Rabbis will be happy about it.  Kashrus agencies will be happy about it.  Jewish liquor stores will probably be upset with it.

The essence of the article is that we have perhaps been making a huge and incorrect assumption in regard to the sherry casks in which many hard alcohols are aged.  There is much more non-kosher wine in the barrels than we had previously thought.

THREE CATEGORIES

But let’s go back to the beginning.  There are three categories of scotch whiskeys from the perspective of Kashrus:  CERTIFIED, NOT RECOMMENDED, AND APPROVED.  Some hard alcohols are certified kosher.  Some are “not recommended” and some are “approved.”  The OU and the Star K, believe it or not, have some different rulings as to which scotch whiskeys are not recommended and which ones are approved.  No kashrus agency makes money off of the latter two categories.  They do print the list as a public service.

This author believes that after the mechanical engineering discovery is discussed, many in the kashrus industry might re-think the approved category.

THE BARRELS

The mechanical engineering issue is that in each 220-225 litre barrel that is used to produce scotch whiskeys, there is an average of 12 liters of non-kosher wine that has been absorbed into the barrel itself.  The American standard barrel is approximately 53 gallons. The Sherry casks come from Spain and are generally 225-250 liters.   By international law and agreement, Sherry and Port may only be produced in Spain.

Barrels are produced in something called “cooperages.”  The Macallan distillery in Scotland is considered the Rolls Royce of Scotch whiskey – with whiskeys that range up to $30,000 a bottle. Yes, gulp.  (but don’t gulp too much because that averages to $1500 per half ounce gulp.)  Macallan is the only distillery that is licensed to purchase significant numbers of barrels from cooperages.  They use wood from the Northern Galicia area of Spain and no one else is licensed to make it.  Regardless, the Scottish distilleries take apart the barrels and rebuild them to standard sizes.  Many, if not most, of the other distilleries also use sherry cask barrels to produce their whiskeys.

This is actually significantly more than the “less than shishim” amount that past poskim have previously assumed was in the barrels.  The penetration of liquid into the porous structure of the oak wooden casks is known as impregnation.  This author has pictures of 3 entire gallons of wine, taken this morning.  These gallons were taken out of “legally empty” 53 gallon barrels.

SOME HALACHIC BACKGROUND

There is a fascinating debate between the Shach (98:13) and the Taz (105:1) regarding the halachic concept of marination or Kavush.  If something is marinated in a non-kosher vessel – what is the formula for how much nullification is needed?  Do we need 60 times the amount of the kosher food to the entire vessel or do we need sixty times the amount of the “peel of the vessel?”  The Shach rules that it is against the entire vessel – even in regard to marination.  The Taz rules that only 60 times the volume of the peel is required.  Regarding non-kosher wine, however, the Shulchan Aruch (135:13) rules that only 60 times the peel is required.

How does the Shach contend with this ruling?  He states (YD 135:33) that the Shulchan Aruch’s ruling is only in regard to a doubt regarding how long the wine was in the barrel.  Since non-kosher wine in the post-idolatry world is only a Rabbinic violation, when there is a doubt- one may be lenient.  But, the Shach writes, if it is known with certainty that the wine was in the barrel for 24 hours or more then even the Shulchan Aruch rules would rule that one would require 60 times the amount of the entire barrel.  The Chochmas Adam (81:11) rules like the Shach and states that only l’tzorech gadol – for a great need, may one be lenient like the Taz’s view.  For some reason, however, many of the current Kashrus agencies have been lenient (in terms of their approved list) in accordance with the Taz and not the Shach.  But even according to the lenient view, there is still a problem.

THE PROBLEM EVEN ACCORDING TO THE LENIENT VIEW

The Shulchan Aruch (YD 135:13) seems to write that only kdai klipa [a peelable amount of wood] of the wine absorbs into the barrel.  But the assumption that this is an insignificant amount made by the Kashrus agencies is questionable.  Kdai Klipa is when the “peel” remains intact when taken off.  This author believes that when dealing with wood, the “kdai Klipa” is much thicker than when dealing with metal.  Especially in this case, where we actually see the previously absorbed wine physically come out.  So the bliyos (absorptions) of wine would not be batel (nullified) into the whiskey.  This is especially true since the wine is placed in there to add taste.

According to an article in Applied Thermal Engineering Vol. XXV (pp. 709–718) published in 2005, depending upon the porosity of the wood, the impregnation front stops at between the first 4 and 5mm into the inner side in oak casks with 25mm thick staves.  But it can and does also absorb further into the other 21 inches too.  The article gives a mathematical calculation as to how much absorbs into the wood – and it is quite significant.  But there is another problem too.

“SLOSHING”

Many of the smaller distilleries also do something that is illegal called “sloshing.”  Sloshing means that they actually add in a few bottles wine in an empty barrel or in a bourbon barrel until the wine gets impregnated into the barrel.  The wine gets impregnated after sloshing.  The law is that you cannot add more than 2.5 percent of an outside alcohol, but after it gets absorbed, it is empty anyway, so no one can tell.

A DEBATABLE LENIENCY – 16.6% Vs. 1.66%

There is another halachic issue that many have employed as a leniency, but this too is questionable.  The Shulchan Aruch (YD 134:5) writes that when non-kosher wine falls into water, the non-kosher wine is pogem the water (makes it taste bad) and one only requires biul b’shais – 1/6th and not 1/60th. Many, such as the Shach (134:21 and see Nekudas HaKesef in Siman 114)  are of the view, however, that this is only in regard to water – but not when dealing with another liquid where the wine actually enhances the flavor.  Where the wine enhances the flavor, they write that  1/60th is required.  This is in accordance with the Ramah (YD 114:4) who requires shishim when wine is mixed with apple juice.  The TaZ (114:4) disagrees and states that we only need bitul in 16.6%.  How does the TaZ deal with the Ramah in 114:4?  He writes that it is simply a quote of the Mordechai’s view who always requires 1.66% and not 16.6 percent.

Rav Moshe Feinstein zt”l (Igros Moshe YD #1 Siman 62) ruled like the TaZ, but said that a Baal Nefesh – someone concerned about his soul, should be stringent and follow the view that 1.66% is required.  [Rav Feinstein also discussed the possibility that the view of teh Nekudas HaKeseph may be stringent only in the case where the other liquid is not sharp.  But if it is sharp, then even the Nekudas HaKesef may be lenient up to 16.6 perecent.]

THE SOLUTION

Essentially, what we need to do (and this is why the liquor stores aren’t going to be too happy with this article) is to work our way to only purchase tequilas and whiskeys produced under reliable supervision.  Ben Terebelo, a Master Distiller based in New York State, explains that the Star K is so vigilant in regard to the provenance of oak casks and barrels that he must provide full documentation as to its origin.  His line of artisanal New York bourbons, has finishes of tequila, fresh-fill Cabernet, and fresh-fill Pinoit Noir which would all require rigorous supervision.  (This author tasted the entire line of Terebelo bourbons and found them to be superb, but his family said to reserve judgement until his son from Monsey arrives for Shabbos to hear his more expert view.)

“Ben Terebelo is a hands-on Master Distiller, he doesn’t just bottle it by someone else or send emissaries to move the barrels,” remarks Rabbi Tzvi Shaul Goldberg, Kashrus Administrator of the Star-K. “In guidance with the Star-K he does it all himself to ensure the absolute kashrus integrity of the barrels, something that is critical nowadays.”

Ben Terebelo stands inside his distillery in Utica, NY

DEBATE ABOUT THE LESS THAN 1.67 PERCENT

There is a debate between the Rashba and the Noda BiYehuda of which most people are unaware.  It pertains to the issue of Bitul B’Shishim, something becoming nullified in a 60 to 1 ratio.

The debate can be called,  “Ikro Kach” and it refers to an item where it is normally part of the process of production. If this is the case, the concept of bitul of the non-kosher ingredient does not apply according to the Rashba. The Noda BiYehuda (Mahadura Tanina #56), however permits it.

What do we do?  The custom is to follow the Rashba (See Bais Yoseph YD 134 and Mogain Avrohom OC 446) when we have a kosher infrastructure in place, but when we are new to an area, we follow the lenient view of the Noda BiYehudah (Melamed L’ho’il Vol. II #29).

Many people used to rely on the Noda BiYehudah’s view in the 1940’s and 1950’s. Nowadays, however, we no longer rely on this view because we consider the United States as an area where we have an infrastructure. (This question was posed to the gedolim of Europe by Rav Geffen of Atlanta Georgia in regard to Coke.  This author discussed the issue and the Melamed L’hoil with Rav Yisroel Belsky zt”l in the late 1980’s – who said back then that America is considered as having an infrastructure.) Few people rely on the Noda BiYehudah’s view in the United States nowadays, except perhaps in regard to non-kosher wine casks.

THIS IS MUCH WORSE

The debate until now centered around the kashrus of placing something non-kosher that is less than shisshim.  Here, however, there is more than shishim in the sherry casks.

There are enough whiskeys and tequilas out there that are, in fact, supervised.  It is this author’s view that we should consider ourselves as having an infrastructure.  It would also be a benefit for our communities to let go of this leniency.  It will also put more pressure on the companies to seek truly kosher supervision.  This is, of course, the author’s suggestion and should be a question that is posed to our own shul Rabbonim, Poskim, and Kashrus agencies.

The author can be reached at [email protected]


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34 Comments
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Sad
Sad
1 year ago

If you dismiss the author’s personal belief that, “This author believes that when dealing with wood, the “kdai Klipa” is much thicker than when dealing with metal.” (Not cited based on any source) nothing in the article is new and nothing changes in what Jews find acceptable to drink.
Rabbis who are bored and looking to create the next “Chumra of the week” are doing Yiddishkeit no favors.

Reb Mordechai
Reb Mordechai
1 year ago

An interesting read and I agree with your conclusions, despite common opposition from the AKO.

I have been researching into this subject for some 30 years.

I think it would help your case if you read my book. There I state estimated absorption depths as well as other important facts regarding actual Sherry cask practice in the Scottish Whisky Industry. Pay attention to tmy description of how they season the casks.

I also offer as a free public service, my list official bottlings of Scotch Single Malt Whisky which is updated every few months.

The article needs a bit of tidying up. For instance, Scotch is ALWAYS spelt without an ‘e’. It really does not help your case if you make basic mistakes like this.

I know that Americans use Barrel and Cask interchangeably but the term barrel usually refers to a Standard American Barrel 200L. Barriques are French casks 225L and sometimes 300 L. Hogsheads are 250 L and standard 500L Sherry containers are called Butts or Sherry Casks. Not “barrels”! Quarter Casks are 125L.

The most common type Sherry cask ordered by the Scottish Whisky Industry are 500L Butts, not 225-250L casks as you stated. It is true however, that 250L Hogsheads are in fact ordered from Spain in increasing numbers but nothing compared with the standard 500L butts.

I am somewhat puzzled why you chose to include photos of an American Whiskey distillery in N.Y whilst discussing Whisky from Scotland.

Lastly, it would help if you provided sources for your claim about “SLOSHING”. I have eidus that most distilleries do not pour out the sherry from the casks before filling with new-make-spirit (some 15L of actual sherry are kept in the cask during transport). There is another 15L or so trapped inside the pores of the wood which will come out during maturation. I have only heard in one case where someone in Scotland has actually poured bottles of wine into a cask. I do not think this is a common occurrence. Unless you can show me otherwise.

So so
So so
1 year ago

This entire article is based on one line:
“Kdai Klipa is when the “peel” remains intact when taken off. This author believes that when dealing with wood, the “kdai Klipa” is much thicker than when dealing with metal.”
This is an opinion of the author and is not backed by any sources (unlike the rest of the article.) Furthermore, Wooden barrels are not a new invention (I’m sure we can all agree on that.) And yet, there are no sources that mention this opinion? Maybe there are, but they weren’t brought down for this article.
If you remove this quote then the point of the headline is gone.

kiddush MACALLAN macher
kiddush MACALLAN macher
1 year ago

ITS KNOWN that the GAON Rav dovid FEINSTEIN ZL drank macallan and made a joke to others that if you dont want to drink it l will. He also might of gone to a ranger game MANY YEARS AGO and DIDNT GET KICKED OUT OF YESHIVA and today the doir is so machmer sheker that people want to say the RAV MOSHE cholov stam kosher dosent apply today, But thats the problem with the chumras and kanois WHERE IS THE CHOMROS AND KANIOS for ETHICS in business LOL. Its funny to me that by chasidim if the rebbe drinks something then that drink becomes holy, but by litvesha if the GADOL HADOR drinks something we qustion whether its kosher LOL.

lazerx
lazerx
1 year ago

I admit I am a whiskey fan, but I enjoy both scotch and bourbon. Now bourbon is a legal term that can only be make with certain ingredients and only in non wine casks. Jack Daniels is NOT bourbon since it uses a smoked filter, eventhough in every other manner it is like bourbon.

Rav Moshe ruled that drinking scotch from a wine cask was ok, since the taste of the wine is butil. The litvaks were ok with that, but the chasidim were stringent. But things have changed in the scotch world since the posak of Rav Moshe..

Today expensive and fancy bottles are available to impress you. But for $20 gets you Jim Beam (good stuff too) and $120 will get you something to impress your friends, but it certainly is not twice as good as Jim Beam. Why blow the budget?

Sayee
Sayee
1 year ago

80s Indian shetel
90s talking fish
2022 whiskey treif
YAWN, hic

Reb Mordechai
Reb Mordechai
1 year ago

Unfortunately, in my previous reply, the url link which I had embedded to my Kosher Whisky site was automatically deleted by the anti-Spam filter.

Please do a Google search for

Reb Mordechai Reviews

There is a link on the top of the page to my downloads.

Everyone have a great Shabbos

PS.One person mentioned that I’d spelt “spelled” wrong. Well it depends which version of English you are writing in. ‘Spelt”, as well as being a grain, is also past tense “spell” in British English.

Menchem
Menchem
1 year ago

all he is seen is pictures that someone said is from a barrel cask

Ga Head
Ga Head
1 year ago

What a chauvinist, “Women, generally speaking, will be happy about it”

Reb
Reb
1 year ago

To be honest even though I abhor people who look to find Chumras. About 25 years ago I was arguing Sherry casks with a Yeshiva guy. I had met Reb Ephraim Greenblatt (who from what I understand kind of took over for Reb Moshe as posek) a few times and had his number. I called him (still not sure if it was respectful to call him as I did) and he was clear it was a problem. I asked a few follow up questions and he never said it’s OK or that being Meikil is the correct derech. Just my 2 cents.

Enough with the nonsense
Enough with the nonsense
1 year ago

A Mechenical engineer deals with machinery how they work how to build them better laying out the mechanical needs of a new project
But this is not within his scope of expertise
Did he talk to rabbis manufactures of scotch or bourbon We’re did he get this barrel from. Sorry to many unknowns. But on my next project I wouldn’t use him

Yechee
Yechee
1 year ago

“The custom is to follow the Rashba (See Bais Yoseph YD 134 and Mogain Avrohom OC 446) when we have a kosher infrastructure in place, but when we are new to an area, we follow the lenient view of the Noda BiYehudah (Melamed L’ho’il Vol. II #29 ).”

Who created this custom? Not the Noda BiYehuda or his Talmidim. The Kashrus agencies, who only exist in places with a kosher infrastructure, need the Chumrah of the Rashaba, otherwise they are out business.

evolutionary challenged primate
evolutionary challenged primate
1 year ago

if the gentile wine issur is not a kashrus issue to begin with, how is all of it relevant?