QUESTION:  May Parents Promise to Send to a Mesivta and Then Lie?

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By Rabbi Yair Hoffman for the Sefas Tamim Foundation

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Dear Rabbi Hoffman,

The community in which we live has, Boruch Hashem, a thriving community of true Bnei Torah.  There are also a number of Mesivtos that serve the community and the situation is a highly competitive one.  There are top tier, middle tier, and lower tier Mesivtos and, understandably, it is more difficult to get accepted by the top tier ones. 

In the past, every Mesivta shared the same application deadline of Tu BiShvat (a date in the Jewish calendar). However, this year, some middle-tier schools changed their process. They now give applicants a “tentative acceptance” but require an immediate response (within 30 minutes) and a commitment to attend.

Here’s the dilemma parents face:

  1. Every parent hopes their child will get into a top-tier Mesivta.
  2. The middle-tier Mesivtos are demanding an immediate commitment (and a deposit)
  3. If a parent declines the middle-tier offer but their child isn’t accepted to a top-tier school, the only remaining option would be a lower-tier school
  4. The top-tier schools haven’t made their decisions yet

The question is: Is it permissible for parents to falsely promise attendance to a middle-tier Mesivta while still hoping to get into (and potentially accept) a spot at a top-tier Mesivta?

As this is a time-sensitive question, we would appreciate a quick response.

ANSWER: Fascinating question. 

There is a Yerushalmi in Sanhedrin 3:9 wherein Rabbi Chiya Bar Abba posed a question before Rabbi Yasa who then asked  him, “Are you asking me in a practical case?” He answered, “No.” Rabbi Zeˋira was dissatisfied that he (Rabbi Chiya Bar Abba) had not asked in a practical case, to know what he would have said.  The implication of this Gemorah is that Rabbi Ze’ira would have wanted Rabbi Chiya Bar Abba to tell a lie to Rabbi Yasa.  The purpose would be to obtain a greater knowledge of Torah.  This is the conclusion of Rav Palagi in his Sefer called Chofetz Chaim (19:6).  There is, however, an important caveat cited by the author of the Yalkut Yoseph (Volume II Kivud Av V’Aim p. 237):  One may only do so if his intent is 100% lishma – that he is doing it solely to learn more Torah.  If he does it because of the prestige of attending a top tier Mesivta – then it would be forbidden.  If possible, it is also recommended to minimize it by giving a non-committal reply such as, “Where else would we send?”  We must also keep in mind that, sometimes, the best sevivah for a student is not a high pressure Mesivta but one with Rebbeim whose entire focus is look out for a Talmid’s growth.

Generally, however, lying should and must be discouraged – especially so as not to teach our children improper behavior.  The best way to do so is by example.  Hatzlacha.

The author can be reached at [email protected]

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42 Comments
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HOME SCHOOLING!
HOME SCHOOLING!
16 days ago

It’s sad that parents have to play games and jump through hoops to find a good chinuch for their children. Mosdos should not bully parents. Why can’t parents hire a great rebbe directly; And have private group tutoring like is done at bungalow colonies during the summer? NY gives vouchers for home schooling. If a group of well off parents can start one group successfully, the model can be followed by more families and catch on.

Kollel for Life
Kollel for Life
16 days ago

Author, you must reconsider your response!

Giving a commitment to a mesivta and then reneging on your word deserves a Mi Shepara, like any resiling on a verbal business deal. If a deposit is given, there is also a kinyan, which obligates the deal.

The source from the Gemara is not applicable when the deception causes actual damages! Backing out of the commitment causes untold damage to the Mesivta, as it plans its upcoming student body, holding a spot for this bochur.

Would the author say the same for camps: if a parent commits to a camp but then resiles when accepted in an “upper tier” camp? (Allowing better learning or seviva) Seminar?

What about a shul/organization/camp/yeshiva committing to hire a speaker or magid shiyur (a rov, lamdon) and then resiling when they get a “better” speaker/magid shiyur (a greater talmid chochom)?!

Rabbi Hoffman, you really need to clarify or retract your psak.

Ruby
Ruby
16 days ago

Look at it as musical chairs, lefee haemesthe majority of “top tier and middle tier” MESIVTOS are mamash identical, the name itself top middle …is the ekeldig part…also when a top boy backs outessentialy there is no loss because a middle boy whos chaleshing to get in grabs the spot , there is no real loss. It’s a big game of tetris in the end each bochur sits where the eibishter places him, despite we getting in hashems way kaviyochol
Seforim say that this is why zivugim is koshe for the eibishter because hashem has to “deal with mankind’s krumkeiten”

Educated Archy
Educated Archy
16 days ago

The system where every smart alic out of kolel needs to open his own two bit mesifta is horrible. When zaidy was young in Brooklyn every mesifta was established and had 3 classes per grade. Now oy vey you can’t have more than one class bec the boys will compete for the best rebbe . And there is no English cvs. Then we need to carve out not just 3 levels but 6-7 levels. Each yeshiva caters to a tiny exact box and shnit. It’s all one immature everyone out to beat the next guy. Lakewood needs to make bigger mesiftas with a few classes per grade and more established runned. Enough of this baby immaturity

Look it up
Look it up
16 days ago

Meam Loez quotes medrash that each of asseret hadibrot have sort of an exception. For “lo tignov” (do not steal) the exception is one may mislead his rebbe into teaching. In other words one may, so to speak, steal his rebbe’s favorable attitude (or in this case the attitude of the administrator) so that the rebbe will allow the talmid to learn.

Bribery
Bribery
16 days ago

Just pay them a bribe under the table and you’ll be ok the same as if your child is perpetrating some unpleasant situations

David Klein
David Klein
16 days ago

Teaching people to lie by omission is still 100% lying. Disgusting, and you wonder why kids learn dishonest business and tax practices

M’dvar Sheker Tirchak
M’dvar Sheker Tirchak
15 days ago

About time people start realizing that we have no “chinuch”, it’s a system of lying and deceit. Start homeschooling. It will be much cheaper and far better.

Muty
Muty
16 days ago

In Lakewood this is not the way things work.
Rabbi Hoffman is clearly saying things like this as he is not from our Lakewood.
Torah is what rules in Lakewood period,and as jew thats the way it should be

shmandrik
shmandrik
16 days ago

YES.