Hear POWERFUL words from Rav Moshe Feinstein zt”l re College and Materialism

    45

    As restated by Rabbi Yair Hoffman

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    On July 1st, 1975 (29 Sivan, 5735), a meeting took place in the auditorium of  the Bais Yaakov at 46th Street and 14th Avenue in Boro Park, Brooklyn.  Hundreds of Bnei Torah were in attendance. 

    The main speaker? The Gadol haDor – HaGaon Moreinu HaRav Moshe Feinstein zt”l.

    His topic?  College. Materialism

    In that electrifying drasha, Rav Moshe zatzal urged yeshiva youth not to follow “the counsel of the wicked” and forsake the learning of Torah for college studies.  We see a Rav Moshe zatzal who opens his heart passionately on the topic – because he believed that it was so very necessary at the time.  [How much more so in our times.]

    Inveighing against the materialistic sense of values that has stolen into the structure of Jewish life in America, he refuted the contention that college education is justified for the sake of ‘parnasah’ and called upon yeshiva youth to abstain from college even in face of their parents’ insistence to the contrary.

    Publication Information

    A tape recording of the drasha in Rav Moshe Feinstein’s own voice, in Yiddish was released at the time. (If anyone has it, please forward it to me to be made available.) What follows was adapted from the tape as printed in LIGHT Magazine, issues 166, 167, and 168.

    Spiritual Power, Not Physical Force

    Z’charya HaNavi says, “Not with armies and not with strength.” In our times, we do not have the ability to go out and fight with force against the evil that exists in the world. We can act, as the Navi continues, “only with My spirit”—to go out to the world with a few words.

    The Responsibility of Self-Improvement

    The first thing we must do is to work on ourselves. It is incumbent upon every ben Torah to make clear to himself where he stands, what he wants out of life, and what being a true ben-Torah really means. That there be true b’ney Torah, this of itself is the biggest benefit of all for k’lal-Yisroel. The entire redemption will be in the merit of young students learning Torah. The very existence of the world depends on them.

    This is a basic principle. Their merit prevents war, famine, and other punishments. This is all because of the few true b’neiTorah. And then, when we become true b’nei Torah, we, as a matter of course, have a positive influence on others.

    The Ideal Time and Place

    But we must know how to become Bnei Torah. In truth, from the time of the churban until today, this country in which we live here and now is the easiest place and  the easiest time in which to delve into avodas HaShem.

    There were times when it was very hard to reach lofty levels in Torah and yet at those very times many Torah greats were produced.

    In this country, however, with a benevolent government, where there is no lack of anything, and where it is possible to labor in Torah and avoda in peace, there still do not rise up true Bnei Torah as in the places where it was possible to reach greatness only through hardship.

    Why is this so?

    The Lesson of the Spies

    We know the story of the m’raglim. They weren’t schoolchildren. “They were all men,” the Torah says.  Rashi explains that they were important and righteous men.

    The Or HaChayim adds that HaKodosh boruch hu, appointed the spy from each tribe and they did not go on their own. Yet we find a very strange thing—they turned into deniers of HaShem! This is so shocking that even for Yehoshua Bin Nun, the servant of Moshe—who was the greatest of them all, for he never left the tent of Torah, and HaShem said of him that he would be Moshe’s successor to spread Torah in Israel—even for him Moshe was apprehensive that he might falter!

    Moshe had to bless him, “May HaShem save you from the counsel of the spies.” This is extraordinary. Similarly, Kalaiv ran to Chevron to prostrate himself upon the graves of the Avos and pray that HaShem should save him from the spies’ plot.

    What was this “counsel of the spies”?

    Understanding the Counsel of the Wicked

    The pasuk in T’hilim says, “Fortunate is the person who did not walk in the counsel of the wicked.” This means with the counsel of the wicked. Because it is impossible to turn a righteous person into a wicked person overnight.

    It takes many hard years for the yeitzer harah to turn a tzadik into a rasha.  That is – unless he comes with “counsel” and methods. Then, even great people and Bnei Torah are entrapped into his net and altered. This is what happened to the spies. The yeitzer HaRah caught them with his counsel for the sake of a mitzva, as we find in Chazal.

    How Good Intentions Can Lead Astray

    But the spies forgot one thing, that with all their mitzva-intentions they were still not allowed to go against Hashem’s will, not even a single iota. If one follows his own thoughts and interpretations, even if his intention is for Heaven’s sake, he is unconsciously turning against Hashem’s will.

    The same is true in our times: different groups who see themselves as religious have created for themselves new interpretations of Torah in order to attract members.  They claim their intention is for Heaven’s sake.

    But according to their new interpretations, they will have to give up part of the Torah; and even if they do not give up anything, their basic ideas are new and different from those of the Torah. They cannot succeed. One can only succeed by following the Torah’s counsel.

    The Natural State of Jewish Righteousness

    Dovid HaMelech said, “Fortunate is the person who did not walk in the counsel of the wicked,” because a person does not become wicked overnight. To turn a righteous person into a wicked person takes time, for every Jew is presumed to be kosher and righteous. He or she is born with the holiness of Yisroel and possessing the holiness of our forefathers, which is not easily uprooted.

    We also find in Halacha that even someone who is known to commit certain aveiros is still considered to be a kosher Jew regarding more severe aveiros. Chazal testify that it is not easy to turn the heart of a Jew.

    All this is true, however, when there is no plan. But if someone comes with evil counsel then the matter takes on a completely different perspective. Because the counsel of the wicked is something that can take hold even in a kosher Jew’s thinking.

    This is especially so when the plan has a foundation in the words of Chazal, where the words are interpreted to suit the plan and not in the manner transmitted from one generation to the next.

    The Evolution of Apikorsus

    Elazar ben Po’ira advised King Yanai to kill the Jewish Sages. Yanai asked him, “What will happen to Torah?” He replied, “Torah has been put in a corner.” In other words, whoever wants to can learn the Torah. “Immediately,” the Gemora tells us, “a spirit of apikorsus entered his mind. He should have said, ‘That is true for Torah shebich’sav, but what will happen to Torah sheb’al-peh?'” But he did not ask this and was labeled an apikoros for denying Torah sheb’al-peh.

    Modern Forms of Denial

    In our days, however, when the Torah sheb’al-peh has been fixed in the Shas Bavli and Y’rushalmi, when rishonim and m’forshim and the Shulchon Oruch have all been printed, the Oral Tradition can also be “put in a corner.” It is quite possible today to be an apikores even if one believes in Torah sheb’al-peh.

    How so?

    Torah sheb’al-peh, the explanation of Torah shebich’sav, was put into writing because of the posuk “A time to act for HaShem.” This written oral tradition is thus only an extension of Torah shebich’sav; this written Torah sheb’al-peh needs to be studied through the m’sora from Chazal in the same way that the Torah shebich’sav, given at Sinai, was studied via the m’sora from Moshe.

    The kabala that the sages of the different generations transmitted regarding how to learn the Mishna, the G’mora, and the words of Chazal, is binding upon us. When one learns G’mora according to the way he feels, and not in the way Chazal received and transmitted, he is exactly like the apikores who learns the Torah shebich’sav without the accepted explanation of Chazal from Sinai.

    The Temptation of American Prosperity

    Here in America, the rich America, through the kindness of HaShem, it is so easy to earn a livelihood. Yet there are people who are not satisfied with earning a little.  They seek all the means possible for earning more.

    From their youth they are indoctrinated by their parents that the only way to earn a livelihood is by throwing away Torah learning and going to college to study subjects that are prohibited to learn. Even if they choose courses which are permissible to learn—what will become of Torah? If the Jewish intelligentsia dedicates itself to secular knowledge, who will remain to labor in Torah?

    The Misguided Use of Jewish Sources

    This counsel is the counsel of the wicked about which was said, “Fortunate is the person who did not walk in the counsel of the wicked.” This is the kind of counsel that is often accepted even by kosher Jews. For they find a source in Chazal, “A father must teach his son a profession.”

    They say that a college degree is a means to a livelihood, and because of this they have their sons fattened on k’fira. Even when it is not k’fira but permissible studies, their whole brainpower is taken away from Torah. Isn’t it enough that during their entire childhood their time is wasted with secular studies?

    In America, they have the illusion that they are necessary. When they reach the age of 15 or 16 the time has come for them at least then to dedicate their whole selves to learning Torah and to grabbing girsa d’yankusa—the “learning of youth.” Yet they still cannot detach themselves from secular studies.

    This counsel of the wicked tells them that it is not enough to learn just a little secular studies but that they have to learn more and more, until they completely forget about learning Torah.

    The Need for Steadfast Conviction

    This is why today we do not produce people great in Torah, whereas in those countries where we suffered great poverty and pain, there grew many g’dolei Torah. Every individual must therefore be very, very careful not to be misled by this “counsel of the wicked,” chas v’sholom.

    This must be explained to parents; and if the parents are stubborn, the son must be equally stubborn against it. In this type of situation one is not obligated to listen to his parents, but must stand firm. We must know that all the claims about college being necessary for livelihood are illusions. There is no excuse for leaving the yeshiva, chalila.

    If in his days Rabi N’HaRah’i said, “I ignore every profession in the world and teach my son only Torah,” surely we can say it today in this country where no miracles are needed and there is enough parnosa in the normal manner. One can earn his livelihood in a simple manner even if he does not follow their counsel and does not go in their way and does not go to college.

    The Delusion of Materialism

    Many people think a person must gratify all the desires of this world; except that kosher Jews must seek kosher ways to gratify their desires. This idea itself is completely treif.

    The fact that a person should think that he must gratify all his desires even in a kosher way, that in itself is the most treifa notion. No ben-Torah can develop under such circumstances; and not only a ben-Torah, but not even a kosher Jew can develop in this way.

    The Virtue of Contentment

    A Jew has to possess the trait of “being content with his lot”—not to grab at all the pleasures of this world. Though we cannot demand of those who grew up here in America that they be content with the very same lot that we were content with in those poor countries of yesteryear, however we do require of them that “contentment with one’s lot” which obviates grabbing all the pleasures of this world, even in a permissible way. They must realize that this is forbidden. For thus they waste their energy, and turn themselves into a personification of desire. Besides, where will they get all the money self-gratification requires?

    The Path of Modesty and Sufficiency

    Every ben-Torah—and not only every ben Torah but also every Jew—is obligated to know that he has no need to grab the whole world. On the other hand, whatever Hashem gives he has no obligation to throw away. Even then, he has to pray for the power to withstand the temptations that wealth brings to him.

    It is forbidden for one to seek to gain all the desires of the world like the biggest millionaire; this is not the way of Yiddishkeit. A person should want only the bare necessities, if not the bare necessities of Rabi Shim’on bar Yocho’i and those like him, at most the bare necessities which one needs to live modestly here in America. He would then be able to learn in peace.

    If every person realized that he did not need more than bare necessities, then we would not be seeking ways and means—from childhood onward—to obtain all the money needed to buy fancy cars and beautiful houses. We would not need so many devices and ways to find our parnasa. Such a way of life would eliminate desire and render the “counsel of the wicked” entirely ineffective.

    Divine Providence and Life’s Necessities

    Hashem, as we see, gives food to every human being/ He does good for all, giving to each person according to his place and period, so that he should not feel himself distressed in relation to the rest of the people of that time and place. This is surely true for those who have taken upon themselves the yoke of Torah.

    About them the Tana says that Heaven removes from them the yoke of sustaining a family. But all this applies only when we do not ask for more than we really need, when we want to live a life of Yiddishkeit without extras—with only the bare necessities of life, even if they are the basic necessities of a comfortable life.

    The Errors of Previous Generations

    Years ago, American Jewry strayed far from the righteous path, because fathers taught their children that it is hard to be a Jew, and that if they keep Shabbos they will lose their parnasa. Even though they themselves were kosher Jews and withstood many temptations, yet by harping to their children about the difficulty of keeping the Torah, they created a great negative temptation in the eyes of their children, who were unable to withstand it. Those fathers misled a whole generation from Judaism. That was the counsel of the yeitzer HaRah and it was successful.

    The Joy of Torah Observance

    How much better it is for us to keep the Torah without temptations. If the fathers of the last generation had taught their children that Shabbos is great, that the keeping of Shabbos is the greatest pleasure and happiness—aside from our belief that Shabbos brings in its merit parnosa and all good and that it is worth all the wealth in the world, more than a mansion and more than a Cadillac [Tesla, bazman hazeh]—then Shabbos [violation] would have posed for their children no temptation at all.

    Is there any need to resist temptation when someone pays to buy a mansion? He pays with a desire-filled heart, painlessly. That way there would have been no temptation attached to keeping Shabbos even when it cost money.

    If those fathers would have taught this to their children, Shabbos would have been their greatest joy, the keeping of Torah would have been a pleasure unhampered by temptation. If a person would train himself to believe that Hashem supports and sustains, there would be no temptation to sin in monetary matters.

    Because when G-d gives with His outstretched hand, He gives people their parnosa in a way that precludes cheating, taking interest, and stealing, in a way that allows people to keep all the halachos in Choshen Mishpot.

    Belief as the Foundation of Moral Behavior

    If people had this belief, they would not have to fight any temptations. But when a person lacks this belief, or if he fails to better his character traits, and is full of vanity and stubborn about everything, and he chases after the desires of the world, then he succumbs to every temptation.

    The only difference between him and a rasha is that he wants to be careful to fulfill all his desires in a kosher manner. If he would know that chasing after one’s desires or after non-obligatory things is in itself the most treifa occupation in the world, then he wouldn’t want them at all; and that would remove the temptation from them.

    The Obligation to Value Torah Above All

    Every Jew has an obligation to know—at least every ben-Torah must know, for the multitude of the people will not understand my words—that he must become a genuine ben-Torah. Even though it is impossible to demand that everyone fulfill the statement of Chazal, “Bread in salt will you eat, and water in measure will you drink,” nevertheless each individual must feel that the Torah is so sweet and so precious that it is worth living at the standard of “Bread in salt will you eat” in order to develop a desirable amount of Torah-knowledge.

    Plainly, we may not ask for more than the bare necessities, so that we can hope to grow great in Torah. Each person has to recognize his own potential importance if he will grow in knowledge to be a kosher Jew and to become a great person in Torah. “Whoever does a single mitzva tips the scales of the world to the side of merit,” for the whole world depends upon Torah.

    If everyone would understand this, this understanding, of itself, would be of the greatest benefit for each Jew individually and for the Jewish people as a whole.

    The Individual Responsibility to Become a Torah Scholar

    Today more than in years past, the responsibility lies upon each individual to become a gadol baTorah. Even if all become g’dolim baTorah we will still have too few—until we fulfill the wish expressed in the posuk, “If only all of G-d’s nation would be prophets!” In this generation there are so few g’dolim baTorah that one can count them on his fingers. What will become of the next generation?

    Of course we are looking forward to the arrival of Moshi’ach who will come soon and then “the world will be filled with knowledge…” But until he comes, we must bear the responsibility for the existence of our Torah and for the continued existence of the whole Jewish people.

    Rabbi Hoffman can be reached at [email protected]

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    45 Comments
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    Stop blaming the world 4 our failures
    Stop blaming the world 4 our failures
    1 month ago

    I went to
    MTJ in the late sixties until 1972 the vast majority of us went to college and yes got married And continue to learn daily I don’t remember the yeshiva objecting
    As per the scheduch crisis maybe if more boys got an eduction it professional training it wouldn’t be happening
    Young men would depend on their in laws for support
    Side bar I’m in my 7 daf cycle as well as have three long term study partners

    Torah Im Da'as
    Torah Im Da'as
    1 month ago

    What exactly is the point of this article? If someone needs parasa, or wants to make a living doing something intelligent in the math or science, they can go to college. Not a chiddush. Rav Dovid almost went to college, and his wife certainly went to college. Rav Moshe’s own daughter went to college. Touto is filled with furm Jews in college. So again, not sure what the point is here.

    Bertche Yaknehaz
    Bertche Yaknehaz
    1 month ago

    Again, this thread is being censored. Not the reaction they hoped for, so they are deleting comments as they see fit.

    chaim
    chaim
    1 month ago

    With all due respect, parnassah can’t be sideswiped, no matter how great the rabbi. 90% of all shalom bayis issues and gittin, nebach, and OTD kids are directly related to lack of adequate parnassah. So with no chutzpah intended, unless rabbonim are writing checks to families who need it, they should NOT be giving advice that causes great damage — frum psychiatrist who sees the damage up close and personal daily.

    Kate
    Kate
    1 month ago

    His own daughter in law went to college and was a public school principal

    lazy-boy
    lazy-boy
    1 month ago

    I remember Rav Moshe well, during his time, no one used his last name. “Rav Moshe”, that said it all, we all knew he was top of the top.

    Yehuda
    Yehuda
    1 month ago

    Not sure why a posek’s speech on a hashkafic matter from 50 years ago is relevant right now. Hashkafic advice is personal and it becomes significantly less relevant the more public and the more historical the advice gets. Ergo, publishing this now is nothing more than yeshivish virtue signaling.

    Chayim
    Chayim
    1 month ago

    On July 1st, 1975 (29 Sivan, 5735). July 1, 1975 was the 22nd of Tamuz, not the 29th of Sivan.

    T follman
    T follman
    1 month ago

    Below, is a quote from your article. I love your articles, however your bracketed opinion is debatable. With most families feeling a financial strain but felt in years past, perhaps rav moshe would feel that in this day and age it would be ok

    – because he believed that it was so very necessary at the time. [How much more so in our times.]

    Cowdoc
    Cowdoc
    1 month ago

    Wasn’t his son in law Prof. Moshe Tendler a biologist?

    Bertche Yaknehaz
    Bertche Yaknehaz
    1 month ago

    I thank you for bringing attention to Rav Moshe Feinstein’s 1975 drosha. There’s no doubt that the rosh yeshiva ztvk”l passionately warned against materialism, excess, and the surrender of Torah values to secular ideologies. His call for mesirus nefesh, spiritual discipline, and modest living is timeless and stirring. But here’s where I must respectfully challenge your presentation:
    I was a talmid at Mesivtha Tifereth Jerusalem.
    In my time at MTJ, a significant number of students in the Bes Medrash and Smichah programs were simultaneously attending college — often at CCNY, Brooklyn College, or other public institutions. Many aspired to become attorneys, accountants, teachers, doctors. Some were already pursuing law degrees, CPAs, or master’s degrees in education. Rav Dovid Feinstein was well aware. So were Rav Reuven and the entire hanholah. If Rav Moshe truly saw all college attendance as “the counsel of the wicked,” it would be baffling that his own yeshiva operated as it did — day after day, year after year — with no kol korei banning this path, nor any indication that these dual-track bnei Torah were betraying his will.
    You cite his 1975 speech as categorical proof that Rav Moshe was absolutely against college. But respectfully, droshos are not teshuvos. Homiletic rhetoric — especially during a charged cultural moment — should not be weaponized to erase the lived reality of the Gadol’s own yeshiva. Rav Moshe was deeply nuanced. He distinguished between lechatchiloh and bedi’eved, between ideal paths and necessary accommodations. The Igros contains many examples of precisely this nuance — recognizing when certain things can be justified for parnosah or communal needs. One finds the same nuance in studying the teshuvos of the Rambam, which differ at times from his stated opinion in the Mishneh Torah or the Peirush ha-Mishnayos.
    What troubles me most is not the hashkofic debate, but the selective memory. You yourself are a college graduate. You have benefited from the very path you now warn others against. Further, why pretend it was never part of the world Rav Moshe helped build? Why the need to rewrite history?
    Let’s stop pretending that Torah and derech eretz are enemies. Let’s honor Rav Moshe by remembering not only his fire, but also his fairness.

    a yid
    a yid
    1 month ago

    This article is just one view- a valid and important one, but not representative of every gadol you could ask. We are blessed to have programs like Touro, night classes at colleges, and- for those for whom it’s relevant- Yeshiva University. For those who can afford it, there’s very little barrier to starting college later in one’s 20s or later, after a good amount of time in yeshiva and kollel. Yes, some can figure out how to manage finding a parnassah without pursuing a degree: I know many Lakewood yungerleit that were able to join a friend’s business and pick up the necessary skills. But I also know young men and women from both yeshivish and more “modern” backgrounds that have recognized that don’t have the same connections to utilize or know that they would be miserable working the type of jobs one tends to get without a degree. Should they have more bitachon and resulting simchas hachaim and quit complaining about not finding sipuk hanefesh in what they spend 40+ hours a day doing? I don’t think most are able to rise to such a level, especially in their 20s. Certainly, when rebbeim give men and women the guidance they need to know how to navigate the complexities of exposure to other perspectives, I’ve seen great success. As it is- at the risk of sounding modern orthodox- even Lakewood men going into nursing homes end up using the internet, being exposed to social media, and often allowing their curiosity to wander into foreign perspectives- and that’s without speaking about anything worse. I find it difficult to relate to modern-day robbonim who continue to advocate for pure technological and cultural isolation without realizing that it’s almost impossible and increasingly rare. Instead, I resonate more with those who teach their talmidim that the world is, indeed, a complicated place, that our mesorah has the depth and beauty to not only rise above the world’s temptations, but respond to difficult questions, navigate the nuances of modern life, and even see the beauty and depth of almost all things- natural and man made, practical and intellectual- more than a goy can! Sorry, this is my pet passion…

    Rebbetzin Zeldalah
    Rebbetzin Zeldalah
    1 month ago

    The purge

    YupYup
    YupYup
    1 month ago

    R’ Hoffman,
    Concerning which group or community did you “Observe” those going to a Non-Jewish college often go off the derech?
    I ask because numerous principals of famous boys & girls High schools have said the opposite.
    They have said that when the Jewish kids continue to live at home (or at least in the community) while attending Non-Jewish college that OTD is not an issue (& certainly not enough to contribute to the Shidduch crisis).

    Anonymous
    Anonymous
    1 month ago

    Are you ok? You sound dangerous.

    Educated Archy
    Educated Archy
    1 month ago

    The context seems unclear. Do we mean 17 yr olds shouldn’t go to college or do we mean 27 and married shouldn’t attend pcs and become accountants. I assume it’s more referring to the prior. 17 yr olds don’t belong in college and it’s not under the category of hishtadlus. Especially true in the modern day era where you don’t work till after you are married and if you learn a few years you can obtain yeshiva credits then earn a degree in 18 months

    just wondering
    just wondering
    1 month ago

    12th grade high school at a yeshiva can get credit for first year college as early admission a/o with AP, and CLEP etc. So is it Kusher lMhadrin because it’s a yeshiva 12th grade? or is is it Pussil Treif because it’s college 1st year? I know people who got an entire BA degree using credit from tests like GRE, CLEP, and AP without using any college courses. Excelcior College in NY State. Edison in NJ, And Charter Oak in Connecticut have Credit by Examination fully accredited degrees. That was years ago. Now you can also get course vidoes for free at youtube posted by fancy colleges like Stanford, MIT, harvard etc. Also at other websites.

    THIRUMALA RAYA&USHA&KAVI&SHILPI HALEMANE
    THIRUMALA RAYA&USHA&KAVI&SHILPI HALEMANE
    29 days ago

    This is a very nice, EXCELLENT post and discussion, and clearly the highly revered personality of Rav Moshe Feinstein was indeed a GREAT scholar leader of the Jewish faith and the Jewish people, and it was most important for him to keep serving that heritage and traditions inherited from their ancient generations, history and traditions, and to be careful that its essence is not lost for the future generations, that the efforts, struggles, hardships, patience, perseverance, etc of the past elders will continue to benefit the upcoming youngsters etc, and the article brings this out clearly and very nicely. The discussions also seem to present well the various aspects relevant to the question at hand, namely what the best ways are for handling the pressures of modern life along with the benefits as well as needs for continuing the Jewish education and traditions, the cultural, religious, ethnic, tribal etc all included. I think I understood the essence of the article, comments, issues presented here, and although I did look up a bit online for confirming my understanding of the special words connected with the Jewish traditions, and similarly or similar we can say, such special words exist in Hindu traditions also, and very likely in various other traditions as well. And, I think, these types of concerns can be seen elsewhere also, while it is indeed a matter of importance for Judaism, for the Jewish diaspora as beautifully presented here, this is a much general type of issue, and it can be handled or utilized for better understanding and support, empathy and help from elsewhere also, from everywhere, all over the world. Jai Rav Moshe Feinstein, Jai Judaism. Jai Truth and Dharma, Jai Prajaa-Prabhutwa Dharma. Best Wishes, Aummm…
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    Local
    Local
    1 month ago

    5 years on manslaughter is not bad. You should be grateful.

    Educated Archy
    Educated Archy
    1 month ago

    I’ll just post my point again. 17 year olds don’t belong in college generally. It’s a waste of time and money. Once they get married and figure out what they want to do in life plus obtain yeshiva credits they can earn an accounting degree in 18 months or even attend Harvard law school from bmg, with Noah Feldman. In 2 years you have a degree

    Educated Archy
    Educated Archy
    1 month ago

    17 year olds don’t belong in college generally. It’s a waste of time and money. Once they get married and figure out what they want to do in life plus obtain yeshiva credits they can earn an accounting degree in 18 months or even attend Harvard law school from bmg, with Noah Feldman. In 2 years you have a degree