Jerusalem – In 2005, Amiram Gonen of the Floersheimer Institute for Policy Studies examined the practices of London’s ultra-Orthodox community. It has close ties to the Haredi community in Israel, and accepts the religious authority of rabbis in Israel. Nearly every Haredi lad in London is sent for “finishing” to an Israeli religious school. The community maintains its own education system, separate from the British state system.
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Since these schools focus on religious studies (although the children learn other subjects as well ), they do not prepare their graduates for entering the modern job market. And because Haredi families in London tend to be very large, like their Israeli counterparts, the community is very poor.
But there is a vast difference between the two communities. In Israel, the majority of Haredi men study in yeshivas and don’t work. In London, it’s the opposite. Most Haredi men do work, even if their jobs are not particularly well-paid. An analysis by Hagay Levin of the Prime Minister’s Office’s National Economic Council, based on Gonen’s research, found that 18% of Haredi men in London study in a yeshiva their entire lives. Most of these are the best students. But in Israel, the parallel percentage is between 60% and 75%.
Meaning that in Israel near all Haredi men, not only the best and brightest, turn yeshiva study into a vocation.
Levin’s analysis names three reasons for this vast difference. One is army service: There is none in London, and here there is. Since the only way to evade conscription is to study at yeshiva (the Tal law ), in Israel all the Haredi men stay in school.
The second reason is welfare policy. Britain also cares for its poor, especially the large families among them. The birthrate in Britain is low, so it has an active policy of encouraging birth. But much of the support in Britain is conditional on finding work, for instance the negative income tax. The difference in help for people who work and those who don’t is immense. That motivates them to work. In Israel, Haredim get most of their allowances whether they work or not. They do not have an incentive to work.
The third difference is education. While that of the London Haredim also emphasizes religious studies, most of their schools also include nonreligious subjects in the curriculum. In Israel, many of the Haredi boys’ schools, especially at the high-school level, do not.
You want special treatment, you pay for it
This brings us to how Britain and Israel treat the separate Haredi education systems. Britain won’t finance textbooks that aren’t part of the official curriculum. It doesn’t ban special schools with alternative curricula, but it won’t finance them. You want special studies, you pay for them in a private school.
In Israel, the state finances the Haredi education system, to the tune of between 55% and 100%, though the schools don’t use the official curriculum. They are not supervised, and they do not obey the state when it comes to safety, equality between students and workers’ rights.
The two countries treat these separate education systems completely differently, and the fruits of each system are also completely different.
The fact that the Haredi education system in London is private makes it very expensive. Therefore Haredi men have no choice but to work if they want their children to attend the special schools.
In Israel, the state finances most of the system, so the men don’t have to work in order for their children to attend the special schools.
The British system achieves two goals.
It preserves the principle of spending public money only on things that benefit the state. (It will only fund schools that empower citizens, including through their future inclusion in the workforce. )
In Israel, on the other hand, taxpayer money is squandered on a school system that is separate, anti-Zionist, antidemocratic, that sometimes discriminates on ethnic grounds and that does not prepare its graduates for the modern labor market.
It also forces those who use the separate education system to go to work, through the burden of high school fees. In Israel, the separate education system doesn’t burden its consumers, who don’t have to work: The ones paying for it are people who do not use it and who do work. The British Mandate may have had some positive aspects.
Very well done article and only reinforces all of our thoughts on how dysfunctional the Charedi kehillah in EY has become and why they must funamentally change to survive. It is a busha that 2/3 of the chareidi men in EY are either too lazy or risk averse to obtain the skills needed to get a job.
So much for the logic that their studying is helping the state. Whats helping the English state?
this EXPERT knows nothing
the close cousins of the london community which is satmar , toldos aharon don’t take any money what so ever from israel .also most chareidim send their son`s to chaderim-schools which don`t take any money
I guess I understand why israelis can`t understand chareidim
Haaretz should stop obsessing over chareidim.
as interesting as the information here is, i think that most people with familiarity with the yeshivish/chareidi societies of eretz yisrael/chutz laaretz (be it UK, USA, etc.) could have told you the same thing.
the bottom line is that most chareidim living in chutz laaretz (with the obvious exception of lakewood) work.
while everyone was marveling at the huge ‘kiddush hashem’ of the 100k+ rally for the emanuel parents last week, i was thinking about the fact that only chareidim could pull such a thing off because only they have so few responsibilities/commitments during the day to be able to show up to such a protest. everyone else has to work. they don’t have the luxury of leaving the office to go to a protest, have a smoke, etc., whenever they please.
just walk around meah shearim/geula during the day. you’ll see plenty of ‘yungeleit’ anywhere BUT in beis medrash.
the current chareidi society in eretz yisrael has been led off a cliff by its leadership. the only thing that will begin to change this situation will be the widespread poverty (to the point of starvation) that is already descending on the chareidi world. unfortunately, bad habits die hard.
A truely biased article. I am persobnaly familiur with both countries Chareidim.
Omitted: Many Chareidim learning in Israel are Oilim from other countries including London,had they stayed in London you would likely have more than 36% learning an entire life[ if the above numbers mean anything], if you subtracted all the oilim in Israel, the so called % would fall too.
Wrong: The British school system is a lot more complex than stated. There are public schools,Like Eaton & Harrow they are private[funded] elite schools where royalty & many prime ministers & Government families studied.Most of these were boarding schools too. Private schools of less calibar also funded with private money, including many religious schools. State funded schools, State aided/ volentery aided schools, most religious schools are in this category or waiting for approval. There is no Church & state laws so religious lessons could be government funded, in local schools they do have prayer & grace after meals etc.The Chareidi funded school smust learn certain subjects & for a given amount of time, but Talmud is also a subject so is chumash halacha etc.Sundays & extra hours are not funded.
Well the major problem is the military, its the shoresh. Let them go to work at age 20 if served civil services in the army and everthing would change. The system wont change in one day, but atleast in the futur it will save everthing.
The biggest tragedy of the whole Emanuel affair is that its obstructing the biggest issue with haredi schools in Israel, that they dont teach the skills needed to make a living.
Smells anti-charedi/torah to me (besides for the fact that the articale makes NO sense!!)
Finally… this report addresses the real issues of messed-up incentives that charedim in Israel face, which leads them to stay out of the job force. A lost generation. Unfortunately for Israel the outcome is a more fanatic and extreme charedy sector that douse not contribute to the economic activity in Israel even tough a large percentage of charedim would happily work if the incentives were properly structured.
I agree that the state should not fund a school that does not teach secular subjects as it does not benefit the state. But it is wrong for the state not to fund the school, at least for the secular subjects, if the school complies with that requirement.
I dont understand the comparison at all-its almost impossible to get a well paid job in israel (even after the army)-in the u.k.(and almost any normal place in europe and the u.s. And canada) it is generaly much easier.
In London, As Opposed to Israel, Most Charedim don’t have to go to the army if they want to work
I live in london, have been through the education system and now work so i know how things are. I am not sure what country this research looked into but it bears no resemblance at all to the London i know and have lived in for the past 30 years, the bits about the schools, welfare system and others are complete rubbish and are not even close to being accurate.
Haaretz should keep their anti-chareidi bashing to their own country and not make up rubbish from around the world. Alternativelty they could just get their facts right but that would be too difficult because that may portray us in a good light.
Here in the UK, state-funded schools (voluntary-aided) are allowed to determine their intake via whatever criteria they choose *. Our school don’t allow families with TVs or internet and we are funded by the state. By contrast, the Emanuel parents with similar requirements are jailed! The UK government is more tolerant of freedom to practice religion than the Israel, the “Jewish” state.
The European governments go out of their way to protect ancient Jewish gravesites, yet Israeli police beat Hareidi protesters to a pulp for doing the same. (In the UK, there would be a national outcry over this sort of police violence.)
And yes, a Heredi man has a right to refuse work, sit in learning all day, and take benefits & tzedokah (certain benefits such as Housing Benefit & Child Tax Credits are not dependant on trying to find work). We fund our local kollelim in the same way we regularly contribute to Israeli Haredi institutions (who receive the bulk of their income from us Chutznikim, not the Israeli state).
(* The JFS entry criteria that requires accepting reform “converts” only applies to schools that don’t have a strict religious practice test, so doesn’t affect the frum schools)
If israel would change their policy that combines work with military then much more people would go work
The Chareidi community is Israel is way off it’s original intention. The Bal Shem Tov founded Chassidus for the WORKING MAN, who was to busy working to support his family that he could not afford to study Torah all day. Or he did not want to study Torah all day. Yes there were always the learners, 18% sounds fair, but the rest work. Since they want to avoid the Army they “Learn in Israel”, This problem is perpetuated by the Government AND the chareidi community. Today you have Nachal Chareidy so people can go to the Army in a 100% Kosher environment, feel good about themselves and perhaps pick up some skills to get a job. Manhigut Yehudot would change things for the better.
Proud to be a Stamford hilly
Israel is a Jewish state. Therefore, the society will support Jewish values and activities to a greater extent than any other nation. Those who would “cleanse” Israel of its Jewish identity should be ashamed!
The ONLY reason hareidim don’t work is becuase they can’t serve in the army as the gedolim of last generation asered that.
They have one choice , to claim that they learn full day.
Instead of ripping hareidi society, the israeli gov should do real soul searching to find ways to release hareidim from army even if they work. I would reccomend exemption of army services if one gets higher tax bracket for first few years of work etc.
Shame on smart haaretz journalists for blaming hareidy chinuch. In bp and willy skills aren’t tought and we all work!
the obvious proof showing this guy is full of it is by saying the charedim don’t prepare the kids for the labor market, hello bais yaakov taught my cousin how to become an optician of all things – they teach all different trades, my other cousin learned how to be a hydrotherapist – he should take his Nazi propaganda and go throw himself in an oven
Once again, I refer to my own situation…just had a Siyyum in Maseches Megillah, I am also a VP at a major bank. I also have a master’s degree. It ain’t easy, but it’s possible. If you aren’t lazy. I go straight from work after a full day to learn with my Chevrusah. We have had siyummim in 4 Meschtot and are starting our 5th. My chevrusah, while “Chareidi” and not working in the secular world, is a director of a small kollel and works like a dog to keep it financially solvent. The fact of the matter is that socialism has allowed people to not work and live, albeit frugally. What really bugs me is that the ones who don’t work and live off the largesse of others, including the state, are the most anxious to have a lifestyle like the working men, but do not have the skills either as a work ethic or English to get anything other than a very menial job. And these are EXTREMELY bright men, who could excel at many secular professions. But, it is a challenge, the temptations are many in the secular work world, but isn’t that what a Jew is supposed to do, fight his Yetszer Hora? I guarantee you, the Yetzer Hora is a ALOT stronger among those with too much time on their hands.
Let us remember who is supporting who. Asrenu those that are zoche to sit and learn with mesreas nefesh
lol – by lumping anti-zionist and anti-democratic together it makes it seem as if zionism and democracy somehow can coexist – everyone knows that zionism is inherently anti-democratic