New York – Hundreds of ultra-Orthodox Jewish men delayed take-off of a transatlantic flight by refusing to sit next to women, and then caused chaos once it was airborne, a report said Friday.
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The El Al flight from New York, with non-Orthodox and secular Jews also on board, eventually arrived at Tel Aviv’s Ben Gurion airport before dawn Wednesday in time to celebrate the Jewish new year, according to news website Ynet.
But as one female passenger described her trip, “it was an 11-hour-long nightmare.”
As people boarded the flight, ultra-Orthodox men began asking women to change seats so they did not have to sit next to them, some even offering them money to do so, witnesses told Ynet.
When some women refused, including one who was sitting with her husband and identified herself as Galit, the men stood in the aisles, delaying the flight’s departure.
The men eventually sat down, allowing the plane to take off, but then many got up and blocked the aisles.
“I went to the bathroom, and it was mission impossible,” Galit said.
The ultra-Orthodox follow a strict policy of gender segregation and, in Israel, have insisted that women ride at the back of buses.
When a light railway was being built in Jerusalem a few years ago, there was even talk of having separate cars for men and women, but that never materialised.
From unnecessary chumra to chillul HaShem in a matter of minutes.
Sicko men! So much for going to daven with their rebbes on rosh hashana!
In this day and age, we all should be on our best behavior in airplanes and airports.
I have an idea, buy 2 seats or fly first ……stop wasting my time
It’s like not going into shul daven with minyan, because you don’t have your hat with you…
mi ke’amcha yisrael
i wouldnt be so quick to judge others 2 days after rosh hashana especially when we ourselves are asking hashem for the benefit of doubt and judge to judge us favorably
if these men were ready to pay $$$ for someone to move thats called putting your money where your mouth is and shows that some of these men really mean it and dont want to be in a compromising position sitting next to a women for a 12 hour flight can you blame them
excuse my metaphor but would you be comfortable sitting next to someone who you avoided your whole life say an enemy of yours and be forced to sit next to them for 12 hours of course you would try to switch seats these men arent acting any different then you would were the shoe on the other foot
years ago el-al did have a mehadrin section in the days when their was 1 movie screen for each section instead of the screen on back of each individual seat elal understood that it had to be sensative to the spiritual needs of its customers needs
the airline should reserve a men only section to accomodate those men who are bothered and have issues sitting next to opposite gender passengers
this would alleviate the need for the above mentioned delay
Buy 2 seats if you are so frum!!!
continued :caused by someone who wants to practice his religion not only on the ground but when flying as well (since when does the torah laws apply only when on earth but not when on an airplane?
of course the way one goes about his request definitely plays a role on the other hand el-al is known at times to play tough and exacerbates the situation
No need to comment.
These individuals should rent a plane for men only
Let them try this on Delta.
Who is their Rebbe?
Idiots.
what a chilul hahshem,,where is menschlichkeit? these guys dont know how to conduct themselves with other people. if they cant behave dont fly..
Everywhere they go they wreack havok,they are tottaly devoid of any decent behaviour always start divisions amongst the jews.
Here’s a thought. In every problem there is an opportunity. Let’s have a chartered flight a few times a week from NY – like on Sun Tue and Thur just for men. Chumrah Air is born! Now I have another question. What do these fellows do on their flights to connect with ElAl – like from Cleveland to NY etc?
This can only happen on ELAL because the staff won’t try to work it out, just like they told me RABANUT ze gam kasher, so the staff wants it their way, they will tell you what your religion is to be, on other airlines the staff tries to be helpful so this does not happen.
Reb Moshe zt”l (Igros Moshe) permits sitting next to a lady, woman, female, etc., on New York City subways and buses.
This only happens on ELAL the socalled “Jewish” Airline.
This would never happen on United, as the crew is extremely accomodating to the need of their Orthodox passengers , whereas ELAL is notorious in this regard.
Try davening in the ELAL galley, never gonna happen , whereas United will in most cases gladley accomodate the request.
Simple solution: Religous jews should refrain from flying with the Chareidi hating ELAL & fly an alternate airline
if that woman was with her husband she could easily have switched seats with him and… problem solved. but , I assume, she was an Israeli who hates chasidim.
Drunk and stupid with a touch of inside hate. Thus is the fate of most of the uber holy today. Too bad that G-d is not a tin can to kick around. They will not be heavenly for their years. Never Again.
They should be on a no fly list, and should have ben kicked off the plane immediately.
Why can’t Elal set aside few rows for a same gender seats?
Once you know that most of the frum people wouldn’t want to sit next to other gender unless they are family, (And for chasidim even next to their family)
When I order the tickets – give me an option “same gender row”, what’s a big deal?
I blame El Al for not doing anything to prevent this chaos from occurring. El Al receives quite a chunk of revenue from the ultra-Orthodox who fly on its trans-Atlantic route. Therefore, one would think that El Al would be a little more accommodating the the Chareidim. Also, it is better that there be separation among the sexes, as a legal and criminal problem could arise. In 2011, a Rabbi Gavriel Bethany from EY, was seated next to a female reserve Officer in the IDF, on a Delta flight from EY to JFK. She complained that several times, he touched her under her dress. He was detained by the flight crew, and arrested at JFK. He was lucky that the Judge only sentenced him to 60 days in federal prison, for that crime. I guarantee that he will never be issued another visa by the State Dept., to visit the USA.
On my El Al flight last night there were no problems. A not frum women sat next to me and I did not change my seat. But I would say if she would have been dressed very immodestly I may have asked for a seat change. For the record in the many years flying to EY for Rosh Hashana I found El Al to be accommodating.
I cant believe all your responses. I don’t think any of you traveled in coach.
You are squished into your seat with your arm permanently pressed against your seat mate! unless….you sit with your hands folded in your lap.
since the seats are so narrow and the arm rest in narrow, two people can NEVER share an armrest.
Come on, its an impossible situation.
I as a women hate the ‘forced togetherness’. and this is how you sit for 11 or more hours,
So don’t give the frum men flak. I hate having to sit pressed against my neighbor, either man or woman.
If the request to change seats is “Leshmah” – why the loud singing to annoy the passengers? Generally, when people make a request in a decent way, others try to accommodate. When you make a scene – it seems like you are having a good time with the hullabaloo. You should know, that if it weren’t El Al, they would have returned to the gate and arrested those who didn’t follow the steward’s instructions. I was once on a plane to Florida, and the NYPD came on board to remove 3 guys who started up with a stewardess. They were a bit tipsy and they were arrested, post haste.
I’m a frum woman and I’ve sat next to a man when flying but, it is not very comfortable in economy and I can’t afford better. I understand those men’s feelings, but, if seats could not be switched they should just sit tight and bear it.
I am a frum woman, and a few times on El Al (once in business class!) I had to sit next to frum men who were not considerate. Once it was a very obese man who crushed against me. Another time, a man who probably hadn’t bathed in a month. And another time (this was in business class), a man who kept picking his nose. (When I politely asked him to stop, he just stared at me and continued to pick his nose.) Personally, if I could have my choice, I would only sit next to another woman.
I blame El Al too they should no better, the chareidim make up half of their clientele and they should accommodate them.
The problems arose because you had two groups who each think they own the world: Israelis and Chassidim. #19 is right, the foreign airline staff respect religious people and try their best to accommodate them The El Al staff loathe religious people and regard it as a victory when they can, metaphorically speaking, spit on them. The Chassidim don’t like that so they dig their heels in and then you have a mini riot. The only reason El Al did not call the police and stop the flight leaving was because it was erev Rosh Hashana before Shabbos and they would have to put up all the passengers in hotels for three days which would have cost a great deal of hard cash, not to mention the losses thru bad publicity and loss of goodwill..
All these heilige Yidden who chas vesholom would not sit next to a strange woman don’t mind beating their wives.
This attorney will tell you that El Al could not have gender exclusive seating on flights originating in the US. It would violate sex discrimination laws in many states including NY (where this flight originated).
My wife only flies in a left aisle seat because of trouble with her knee. Last flight to Israel she was pestered repeatedly to change seats by a Chareidi man. She refused. She told him that he should find someone who was willing but leave her alone. She was not going to suffer hours in window seat and further damage her knee,
Why don’t They just look in a sefer. This way they won’t feel enticed by a female sitting next to them.
Frum people dont have a problem sitting next to women on a long fight if the women are their wives. Its sitting next to someone who ISNT their wife that would be an issue.
Kol hakavod to ElAl for putting up with the last minute seat changes etc., usually while remaining kewl about it.
We are getting soooo frum, we can side step halacha and cause others problems and feel sooo good about ourselves.
It is about time that people return to learning what is halacha and what is a chumrah and not mistake the two.
These ignoramuses should be punished!
southern bubbie, u did make me chuckle a bit. thats much better than spewing anger, hate and disgust at each other …especially during 10 yemei teshuva–as well as all year long
What we have here is the “CHUMRA” of the week – what has happened to Kllal Yisroel – years ago I don’t beleive the gedolim in the cities walked accross the street, or whatever when they saw a woman. Where has the menchlachkite gone –
I am not commenting on these people but ask the greater question – is it worth all the public comment for your actions, is it more important not to sit in an airplane with someone sitting next to you – perhaps EL AL should have men only flight, ladies only flights, etc – It is Aseres Y’mai Teshuva and look at at how we interact with our fellow man or woman. Gemar Tov
Not to mention that some of these passengers paid extra fees for their seats (Premium Economy)
Al pi halacha sitting between two women can be a problem, but next to one women is a chumrah. For all those flighers, how do you ride a train with women? It’s one thing to be frum in public but what happens inside your hearts is the real sign of yiras shomaim. In either case, chillul haahem is much worse. I’m ashamed that my chassidik brethren did such a thing… Bobover Rebbe ztz”l instruced his attendent to sit next to one woman in doctor waiting room. Are you holier? Please challenge me if I’m wrong?
Thank You.
If these Yidden didn’t reserve seats in ADVANCE sitting next to another man, they can ask, however they CANNOT demand anyone change their seats. There are many people who fly that have medical conditions that REQUIRE an aisle seat, and no Chasid in the world has the right to demand they move from that seat that they reserved months ago. Very simple if you don’t know you will sit next to man, just don’t fly, period.
El Al should set aside IN THE BACK OF THE PLANE a section of gender only seats for both genders, complete with mechitzas and let the rest of humanity live and fly in peace. Same should be done for families with children, give them their own sections.