New York – An unfortunate situation that has affected many in the Jewish community, the question is should we Keep our at-risk children at home? Join our WhatsApp group
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The Jewish Press has this question in an article, answered by Rabbi Yakov Horowitz.
We have six children ranging in age from a married daughter of 22 to a son of eight. Baruch Hashem, things are well with us regarding shalom bayis, parnassah and other areas of our lives.
Our 17-year-old son is a very at-risk teenager. We have been supporting him with testing, tutors, etc. throughout his school years, but nothing seems to have worked. He’s been in several schools since 9th grade, but dropped out and is currently working full time. We have an excellent relationship with him, as he is respectful and does not violate Shabbos/kashrus in front of our family members. But he is, at this point in his life, completely non-observant.
Our dilemma regards his four siblings still in our home. We are terribly worried that they will pick up his habits and lifestyle.
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To quote Rabbi Horowitz; can any of you adults sit for the amount of time your children are required to? The school day is too long for any child, and outlets are not being presented to the kids, ie: let the kids have (much) less Hebrew, let them out of class early and provide them with gym class, art class, music class, after school, within the school confines, so they don’t have to entertain themselves. That way, the Rebbeim can find real afternoon jobs, the parents can stay at the office, the kids are having a ball and everyone is happy!
The term “kids at risk” has always mystified me. From the tone of the article and responses the “risk” referred to seems to be the risk of going off the derech.
I had thought that the risk involved was the risk of drugs and the associated problems associated with this such as suicide, aids etc.
Hashem has created many types of people in this world. Smart, slow, tall, short. Skinny, heavy etc.
While it is true that schools ( even the good ones) have not invested enough effort into working with these children, there is an awareness of the problem.
Hashem also created these children. Recognizing the problem is the first step to finding your own personal solution.
Primary is, understanding that in a regular school setting the child who is ADHD or has a similar learning disability is usually the one found in the halls, dorm or in the streets. They can not sit in a classroom for hours on end with the constant reminder of their inability to learn and therefore find an outlet. IN the streets they will usually become involved with the type of person who will have a negative social impact on their lives. This spirals downward producing a kid at risk.
Parents who are on the ball react to this by 1) obtaining prompt psychological and psychiatric help for their child. 2) Involving themselves in their child’s social life and keeping the bad chaverim away 3) showering the child with love and praise and giving them a sense of self worth.
Being in a school where most of the children are doing well only serves to deflate a child’s opinion of themselves. Schools have to come to grips with this and figure out a solution.
Many of these children ( with love and help) become very productive members of society. The ranks of Rabbonim, professionals and businesspeople are filled with former “kids are risk”. They successful ones share one common denominator. Someone ( parent, teacher,rav etc.) cared enough to help them.
There are so many things being swept under the rug in our communites.
Why sweep things under old rugs?
After a while you need room to stuff in more problems under the rug.
We will be having a once in a life time rug sale. These custom rugs will be big enough to fit not only your problems but everyone elses problems under this unique rug.
Call 1800 new rugs. Be the first 20,000 to buy the rug and get the second one for half price.
I suggest that you all frequent Rabbi Horowitz’s blog. You can access archived articles on this subject and have your eyes opened. As for the commentator who referred to the JP as the Not JP, for your information sir, or madam, the JP has the guts to print Rabbi Horowitz’s informative and sometimes harsh and critical opinions. I’d like to see the other so called jewish papers do the same. Furthermore, the JP is a paper whose ideas may differ from yours, and just may be the ticket to helping avoid at risk behavior. When children watch their parents be open minded, and not closed to certain opinions, certain respect and tolerance is generated. A colleague of mine who is the daughter of a well known Rosh Yeshiva and is herself the wife of a Rosh Yeshiva, borrows her neighbor’s Jewish Week to get the news about what is going on in other parts of the jewish world. (Her kids are B”H not at risk)
I think the story of the kid who was beaten and inch of his life is a clasical, boro park chasid shoite.
the father places more importance of dress then anything else.
To Willy B.- Don’t give that much credit to the community for the Kollel. Once upon a time it was doing well. Due to unfortunate politics it was downsized and underfunded. The Rabbonim were talked to and they addmitted that it needs to be up and running and major changes are needed from cheder age and up. The system needs to be revamped. Yet they lacked the power to actually pull it off. If everyone stood tall and demanded these chnages from teh community leaders, perhaps something will be done. In the meantine, horrible acts are happening to young children, thus causing them to become victims who suffer silently. Trust me… I heard these strories first hand. It is unreal that this is happening in this holy community. In a big way life is great in WB (and all torah communities) however the olem needs to realize that something has to be done to help those that are falling away. It has become a serious number and MUST be dealt with.
And for the record, Rabbi Horowitz is on the money. As all therapists and proffesionals have been saying this for years. Keep these kids home. Love them to death. Shower them with every ounce of love that you can. Talk to professionals on how to deal with the other kids. Be smart. Save our holy children. It’s NOT their fault!!
Firstly, let’s call them KIDS IN PAIN and drop the “at risk” thing. Being in this field for 10 years I have learned one thing. Never judge a kid from what he looks or behaves like. You don’t know what he/she went through. Many are SERIOUS victims of terrible acts (in spite of their seemingly wonderful home and background).
Secondly, there are no dropouts… just PUSHOUTS! We (and that includes parents and Yeshivos) are reponsible for every kid that does not fit THEIR mold. If a child needs to be removed from a Yeshiva- it must be done with proper daas torah WITH a game plan as to where he/she needs to be placed.
In Williamsburg we have what’s called “Kollel Williamsburg”. It’s basically a kollel for “at risk” kids, who may, or already have to some extent, gone off. It’s not a kollel where you sit and learn all day, instead, it’s a place for these kids to hang out, doven, shmuze, support each other, etc. It’s a great cause because it keeps these kids close by, preventing them from going off all the way. It gives these kids the sense that they’re accepted in the community. In the old days, if you one went off he/she had to leave the community. And btw, in williamsburg “going off” is considered cutting the payes and shaving. You can stay a shoimer shabbos and you would still be considered “upgefooren”.
In any event, what I’m trying to say is, this kollel williamsburg, in my opinion is a double-edge sword. On one hand it makes these kids feel accepted and keeps them close to yiddishkiet. On the other hand, it has a very bad affect on the community. It sort of legitimizes what these kids are doing. It’s sending a message to young kids that you can be like these kids and still be accepted, that it’s OK to be like them. Also, it gives these kollel kids a lot of guts to do things within the community that they usually would’ve done outside. And those in the community know exactly what I’m referring to.
So the question is, is the community obligated to save these souls at the risk of corrupting other innocent souls? I honestly don’t know the answer, which is why I’m posing it here.
I will not be anonymous, but will happily sign my name.
I have had NUMEROUS experiences with this matter, and from more than one point of view.
This is my opinion, based upon experiences which I have seen first hand, and of others told to me.
However, none of what I write is meant to replace the benefits of his and your seeking professional help, from a good, and frum, psychologist.
——
Firstly, and most important of all, Make sure this “at risk” boy knows how much you love him no matter what he does. You do not need to approve of his religious choices to approve of him as a person, to approve of him as a good human being, too approve of him as a mensch.
It seems that he has not gone off the way entirely. He is still showing Kibud Av V’Aim, and not defying you in your home. That is a sign that he has not left all the way.
A close friend of my father, a Chassidishe man with a streimel, had 3 children, the oldest was a boy who really was a masmid and loved to learn. The youngest one was the girl, who was simply a wonderful daughter. The middle one, a boy, was a great and very sensitive kid, but simply did not have the “zitz fleish” to sit and learn. Though his father treated him with love, he always felt hurt by the comparison of his below-average performance at learning, as compared with his brother’s excellence.
He eventually dropped out of Yeshiva, and just “hung out” because it was too painful to be a failure and a nobody in Yeshiva, while he could be a “somebody” among the loosers who just hung out and got stoned.
He too kept his yarmulke on at home, and always honored his father and mother the best he could. His biggest pain was that he could not give his father nachas as his siblings could.
Though his father showed love, and always told him he was welcome, he too failed, in that he did not show this boy any approval for who he was. He always felt that if this son were to “buckle down” and go back to the seforim, he would succeed at it. So, though he tried his best to show love, he failed to show approval of this son as a person.
This boy used to come over and literally cry to me, in front of my father, about this. He told me that he was fooling around with drugs to kill the pain that he felt from not making his father proud.
Both my father, A”h, and I used to talk to him and tell him he is a very good person, and that not everyone is cut out to sit and learn all day. My father used to sit there in his streimel and bekeshe and talk to this boy, trying to encourage him, telling him how much nachas his father would get from him if he succeeded as a husband, father, and with parnasa he was earning as an electrician’s helper, etc. He constantly tried to give this boy the pat on the back he needed.
But, this boy needed to hear this from his own father and mother. He always felt that he was letting his father down. Eventually, he started staying away from the house, because he felt his presence was hurting his father. This was not true, but his father did not know how to make him believe he was both loved and approved of.
He lost his paiyus, grew a chup, and changed to a small kippa that he only wore when he was around us or his family. His father was embarrassed by this. Though he tried to hide it, he failed. My father tried to help by inviting the boy to come to shul with him, showing him that he was proud to have him around and not embarrassed by him. His father was just too uncomfortable to do this well.
He drifted further and further away, and one night died of a drug overdose in Maimonides ER.
His father did the right thing to constantly show love and give him a home, but he failed to show approval. Every person, male or female wants and needs the approval of his/her parents.
A child who is going off the Derech needs to feel loved AND approved of, or he will go further away.
Love is not enough.
The boy needs to feel that approval. His father did not need to approve of his failured at learning, but he needed to look for all the good things there were in that boy and approve of those. He needed to show that his was proud of his good accomplishments, instead of constantly trying to get him to return to his father’s way.
Your son KNOWS he is disappointing you as far as his observance of Torah is concerned. But if you show him how much you love him, and how much you are proud of him in all other respects, you just may save his life.
Maybe he will return and be a BT one day. Maybe not for many years. But how you treat him now will affect this.
But, the other point is the siblings. He is their brother. If he had a broken leg you would not kick him out. Broken legs are not contagious. Neither is going off the derech. Well, it could be a little contagious, but you can’t keep his siblings away from him totally anyway. This way, keeping him at home, showing him unconditional love and approval of what is good about him, will teach these precious siblings the greatness of our Torah ways, and teach them midos.
Your pushing him away may in fact push the siblings to emulate him. To love him, accept him, approve his good points, and show it, will lessen the damage he MAY cause.
But…. do NOT show him more love and approval than his siblings! We do not want them to see that going off the derech is rewarded, but love and approve of each child equally, with the honest approval for each one’s good points.
Make sure he is not made to feel like a looser.
Help him make something of himself. Help in get an education/trade so he can earn an honest living, and stay out of trouble.
Find things to be proud of. Maybe he is a great driver. Maybe he does other things well. I am willing to bet there are at least half a dozen things about him you can honestly be proud of. FEEL IT, and SHOW IT .. To HIM.
If he stays alive, and loving his family, he may return. He he dies, Chas V’Shalom, or learns to be angry or hate his family, he may be lost forever.
Do not treat him in a way which would encourage him to be angry with you. He loves you. He wears his kippa around you. That proves it.
Make sure, no matter what happens, that you do not push him to hate you or the family.
Do not embarrass him.
The above story is a true one. But its lesson was proven to me time and time again working with and befriending baalei teshuva who were raised frum. The ones who remembered how their parents, especially their FATHERS, still loved AND ACCEPTED THEM, have a much better chance of returning, and a much lower chance of hurting their siblings.
It seems the schools are not focusing on the average kids. They focus on better kids. The below average are left to rot. This forces parents to hire tutors putting lots of financial stress on the already stretched family. Which makes the other kids rot even more. And the cycle continues. It’s a wonder that so few kids become rotten.
The solution is to design school programs for ALL children.
I THINK IF WE WOULD NOT LOOK NEGATIVELY AT PARENTS WHO HAVE CHILDREN A RISK, AND WOULD STOP JUDGING THE CHILDREN AT RISK. IN OTHER WORDS LOVE THEM FOR WHO THEY ARE. THE PARENTS ARE NOT THE ONLY ONES WHO NEED TO LOVE THEM WHICH I AM SURE THEY DUE. WE AS A JEWISH NATION NEED TO LOVE EVERY JEW. WE DO NOT KNOW THE ROAD THEY HAVE TO TRAVEL, WE DO NOT KNOW HOW HARD IT IS FOR THEM TO DO THE THINGS WE TAKE FOR GRANTED
I lived in Boro Park.that is as close as I will come to identify myself.
My parents kicked me out.I literally had noplace to go and slept in the streets more times than not.
My father is very pious and observant.A true tzadik in others eyes.
But does a tzadik beat his son to an inch of his life because he has questions about his faith?
Does a tzadik become pious at home but cheat and steal in his business?
I have my own place now,a job,but unfortunately,no father.
My mother and I corresponded for a while,but when he found out he threatned her also.
Best to keep the child home?In my case that was not the best.
Keeping your kid home is always the smart way to do it.
thanks MOM & dad for keeping me at home
love you
as a kid at risk i might add a comment on this subject,
I would recommend you look at the bright side of things this kid is working and is doing everything any normal child would do ,the only thing he is not doing is being the religious kid we would expect of our kids,put it this way its not his fault he doesn’t want to be what we expect him to be,as the gemara says b’derech she’odom rotzeh leilich moilichin oisoi,(the way a person wants to go hashem guides him along that way).
there are a million and one reasons he doesn’t find yiddishkeit appealing and who are we to judge him?
keeping him at home and showing that the parents care for him with unconditional love will keep him on the track to staying normal whereas throwing him out of the house will throw him off balance and make him take a different approach to life.
as a kid at risk growing up,with my parents asking the same questions,I can only begin by saying thanks to my parents for keeping me at home and supporting me,even though i wasn’t what they expected of me,after seeing the compromises my parents were going through and not making a brattle about religious subjects I started appreciating them,and as they say mah shlo usu hasaichel usu hazman(what the sechel cant do ,time will.)
be supportive of your kid and you will see changes as time progresses,
again, …a kid at risk here.
it seems that our schools are not able to handle kids who are having these problems. its most important that our children know thta we love them no matter what. the frustrations of dealing with this are enough to break famailies apart, but if we can stay together and help each other, the payoff will be that much greater. why cant communities set aside money so that kids who have trouble fitting in, have another place to go that is still a jewish enviroment, with jewish education?
Kudos to you. Yes it can be so hard to deal with the situation but you are doing it in the best way possible.
As for worrying about your younger children following in the older ones footsteps – yes as a parent its only natural to worry. As a parent of an at risk child who has come back i can tell you two things.
1. The way you are handling the situation makes the difference. Even if your child doesn’t come back at least he knows that he is loved and he probably won’t be anti- frum (the worst anti semites are sometimes the anti-frum). Hopefully your prayers will be answered an he will come back.
2. Your younger children see what is going on. Believe me they are internalizing it. They know that their sibling is doing something wrong- they probably don’t even like it.They will in all probability continue to do what is right. And in the back of their mind is what the didn’t realize that they learned about- unconditional love and empathy – they might even be able to help a friend in need in the future because of their role models (you).
May I suggest considering having the teenager complete high school, even if it is in a public school. Lack of an education/diploma will only compound the problem.
I once spoke to a rav with regards to my son who was not quite like the rest of our family. He was AT Risk for being At Risk. The rov told me that , unless he is a danger to others (not sure what he ment) you never throw a child out of the house. We learn that from Yitchok Avinu, by not throwing aisov out of the house , rather send Yaakov away to yeshiva and Yitzchok will work on aisov. (Jst my 2 cents)
we also need to address all
the NONE experts on the street
that have made us pretend that they are experts
and doing with parents / children
what ever THEY desire
and the effects are ….
As a sibling of a sister who has gone off the derech to the point where she became anti-white, and is only pro-black, and will only date black guys today, with my father being a rov, who is world reknown, I want to point some stuff out. My brothers who were younger than her at the time, were home, and saw her acting out. My parents always told her that she is welcome home, but her boyfriends are not. She fights us on that, and is chalishing for us to accept her boyfriend,,, (her rationale, that me having been divorced, and my family sat at a table on shabbos with a real monster of a person, and accepted him, because he was with me, and she has a real mentch of a guy,,-incidently he is a mentch- why doesnt my family accept him.) At the end, My brothers are very chassidish giving my parents plenty of nachas, bh. They look at her and say she is a loser, because even though she makes great money, she can not be happy, and they have rachmonus on her. My parents did not kick her out,, she is now 30,, she is a part of our family,, but the younger siblings, did not lose out by her being home, on the contrary they saw what happened when she went off, and how much unhappiness my sister experiences.
The son seems very responsible and respectful. These midos should be pointed out at times to the younger kids. It seems as if the boy’s learning problems contributed to his dropping out of yeshiva and maybe his lax observance. The parents should make sure to be personally involved with the other children’s learning. The father especially needs to be a role model and show enthusiasm for learning.
When you have no choice – you still have a choice to give him or her a room in the basement or rent or a room with a side entrance , so he “lives” in your house and does not become a “bigger” problem
anyway you slice it , you need alot of “siyada dishmaya”
1.22
But if the at risk kid flaunts his/her non-observance and goes all out trying to lead the others off, that probably leaves the parents no choice but to throw the kid out.
SHAME ON YOU FOR EVEN TYPNG THIS!! Any parent who contemplates throwing his kid out for ANY REASON, does not deserve to be a parent.
There are no stock answers. Each case must be taken on it’s own, keeping in mind “chanoch l’naar al pi darko”. But if the at risk kid flaunts his/her non-observance and goes all out trying to lead the others off, that probably leaves the parents no choice but to throw the kid out. There is no question that giving an at risk kid love and a feeling of belonging to the family will help in keeping the others spiritually healthy and often helps in bringing the at risk kid back to yiddishkeit.
To February 21, 2008 10:49 AM,
I too know of families who have/had multiple (2 or more) children go off the “D”. One thing I noticed is that the 1 common denominator in all the cases was that the parents did not deal with the situations in a positive way and usually very selfishly [i.e. (This isnt an example, one boy’s father actually told him this). “I dont care whether you cover your head or not, but you better wear a kippah when youre around me in public”!] Some may argue that the father is just embarassed, which is fine. The way he said it was not.
Yes, it is possible and probably for sure that the younger son was influenced –to a certain extent– by the older son. The misconception people have is that what rubs off onto the other children is usually not the bad influential things “big brother/sister” is doing, However it is how they see Mommy&Totty dealing with the situation. I dont know for a fact, but its safe to assume that the younger brother threw away his kippah not because “big bro” threw away his, but rather because Totty probably treated him the same way when he did something wrong. None of us are perfect hence I cant blame the father for not being perfect as well. However, Ive seen several situations invloving diff. teenagers from diff. but similar families and common backrounds. The ones who’s fathers dealt with a positive attitude are not only shomer torah u’mitzvos now but even rebbes or in kollel learning full time. From the others, the ones that are religious now, are only because another family member or friend stepped into the situation and guided the teens to where they are today.
Yes, “Der Abishter Feert der velt” However as parents and even More-so as Ovdei Hashem we have to do our best to ensure that we wont walk into the ultimate Yom HaDin with Hakodosh Baruch Hu waiting to point out to you, your child who is walking around bare-headed because you chose not to shower him with unconditional love EVENTHOUGH he utterly embarrased you in public by his actions. The love a father shows to his son works better than ANYTHING else you can offer.
I Remain,
A Father with 3 “Off the D” teens who believes that each one of them will come back one day because the love I have and openly show for each one them which I know they acknowledge, will change them… FOREVER.
If your parents considered u an at risk child would u have wanted them to throw u out of the house? im talking to many rosh yeshivas today who were trouble makers in thier youth. each and everyone of u know deep down if you were a BAD kid . Do u think you should have been thrown out by your parents?? Or is it easier to judge others as long as its not u or your own kid?
Lets go folks, this is a hot topic and this is the forum for discussion – dont sweep it under the rug. Voice your opinions and comments…
For all those interested, this was an old question which was submitted to Rabbi Horowitz a while ago and the JP (or as we call it, The Not JP) is using it now.
If the parents ask the kid to leave the house they need to see a shrink. Rabbi Horowitz hit it right on the head with his answers.
Anonymous 10:49.
There is no way of knowing if they went off “because” an older sibling went off or because of the same “reasons” the older sibling went off.
Sometimes the most important thing the younger siblings need to see is that their parents provide unconditional love.
As a mental health professional, working in this field for 10 years, I typically recommend that the parents encourage their child to live at home unless they are a physical threat to themselves or other members of the family.
If possible, issues like chilul shabbos should be discussed and a compromise reached (i.e. only behind closed doors etc)
Just my thoughts.
The last comment was excellent and to the point. However do not underestimate the threat to your younger children. I know several families who have lost younger children because an older sibling went off.
I will choose to remain anonymous for this reply.
As a professional in this field, I would like to begin by stating that it seems you’ve done everything right so far. You provided a loving, caring, nurturing and supportive environment for your son. He may not appreciate that communicably at this point, however he will come back one day, likely soon, as a result of your positivity and also his age.
Regarding your concerns about the other siblings, please be comforted knowing that, despite their young age, they too see and comprehend – on their own level – the amount of patience and tolerence you have and will continue to have for your son.
HOWEVER, as a deeply involved parent, please dont lose focus and be alert for any signs or “red flags” that something might be brewing. At the first sign of concern, GET INVOLVED. This might manifest at home or in school, socially, academically or behaviorally, including but not limited to hyperactivity or withdrawal.
Please seek professional intervention as soon as possible. There is no shortage of qualified mentors and coaches who are often “been there, done that” people and best understand what your child is REALLY going through.
Avoid “others” who are quick to medicate and play mind games with your child. It is often unnecessary and can sometimes prove more harmful than helpful, UNLESS THEIR IS A CLEAR CONCERN THAT THERE EXISTS A MEDICAL CONDITION. Your pediatrician will help you make that assesment.
Hatzlocho Rabbah, May the RBSH”OL grant you the strength and wisdon to continue properly guiding your precious children.