New York – This week a report appeared in the Jewish media about Rabbi Riskin’s having released a video tape where he states that he had always had a deep admiration for “Rabbi J-sus” and that the differences between religious Christians and religious Jews were relatively small and minute. The religious Jewish media was appalled at much of what he said and censured him. Soon Rabbi Riskin issued a retraction of sorts.
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What does all this have to do with our Daf?
Our Gemorah (Bava Basra 134a) cites a dispute between Shammai and Rabbi Yonasan ben Uzziel. Once the Gemorah mentions Rabbi Yonasan Ben Uzziel, it states that among the students of Hillel the Great there were thirty individuals who would have been worthy of the Shechina resting upon them like Moshe Rabbeinu, it is just that the generation was not worthy of it. There were another thirty who would have been worthy of having the sun stop for them like Yehoshua.
The implication of this Gemorah is that prophecy in the generation of Hillel was no longer applicable.
The Rashba (Rabbi Shlomo Ben Aderet) in a responsa (Volume I #548) writes in regard to someone who laid claim to prophecy in his
generation (late 1200’s) that our Gemorah is a proof that there no longer is any prophecy. Rather, any such claim, nowadays, comes from the Koach HaDimyon- which we may translate as the power of delusional thinking.
A survey of the Christian bible will demonstrate that many of the teachings of J-sus did, in fact, lay claim to a prophetic revelatory
origin. If this is the case, then any characterization of his teachings, even those that emanate from that of handed down wisdom,
should not be presented as those of a “Rabbi.” Any such appellation would be in direct argument with the aforementioned Rashba and our Gemorah.
While there is no question that many of his teachings do reflect many of the lessons that he learned from his teachers and emanate from the written and oral laws of the Jews, the laying claim to prophecy pretty much negates the use of them- even for inspirational purposes for Jews.
There is no need to discuss this and give this aurgument any legitimacy it’s crazyness.
Well written and timely!
This is what happens when one thinks too highly of oneself. The word Rabbi for J is sacrilege. I think Steve Riskin has gotta take a deep breath and stop calling himself “Orthodox”. Shame on him!!
Gedolim have said this time and time again. Don’t even utter the “J “word as nobody with a brain would utter the “N” word in a derogitory manner. There are certain things in Judiasm where you don’t even go.
If it was important enough for many gemorahs to have the topic of J delted then where does the rabbi get off for talking about this topic? And he is a Rabbi?
Why? I thought it was a good shiur. It brought that Rashba and applied it to the idea of no nevuah nowadays. Plus it makes the daf relevant. I disagree Joey. Anyone else out there?
What about all those who claim that this Rav or this Rebbe has Ruach Hakodesh? What about people who were considered Baalei Mofes? Is the Rashba saying they are not?
Rabbi Riskin should avoid trying to be politically correct. Better yet, why speak to an xtion audience altogether?
Where did this Rabbi Riskin get semichah? That should explain his hashkofos.
Rabbi Hoffman, you unknowingly did a terrible thing by writing J-sus. Jesus is not G-d and it is blasphemous to put a hyphen in his name.
I would not have seen this in the daf if it wasn’t for the rashba and VIN! Yasher Koach
how can Mr Jesus be a rabbi? he tried to change torah. He tried to change Jewish laws on marriage and did not sanction things like a kosher diet and circumcision. This is a man and I suggest referring to him as Mr.
Nothing new with this rabbi. He has this reputation – he’s a chilul Hashem. He once wrote an article where he said something derogatory about Moshe Rabbeinu and the response from the rabbinic and religious world was unanimous – thought they would ex-communicate him! What is wrong with our people today, it’s as if G-D has taken away all the sechel – even from these responses, you can see that!
Stop with the nareshkeit that it is somehow forbidden or bad luck to spell out “Jesus” name or use the term “G-d” when referring to the veneration that Christians give to him. We are adults and understand that this is not somthing that yiddin subscribe to but Rav Riskin should be commended for speaking openly about a sensitive subject.
Ruach Hakodesh and Prophecy are 2 separate matters.
800 years ago). The Lubavitcher Rebbe (Sichos P. Shoftim 5751) discusses this at length and identifies the Previous Lubavitcher Rebbe as a Prophet.
We have a Kabbalah that all of the Rishonim wrote with ruach hakodesh. We also have a kabbalah that many Tzadikim, such as the Baal Shem Tov and the Ari Hakodesh, and many others, were able to see with varying degrees of Ruach Hakodesh, some from one end of the world to the other.
Although the Gemara does say the Prophecy terminated, The Rambam (in Iggeres Teman, I think) gave a date when it will be restored to Klal Yisroel ( this date was
reply to 20,
I was reading in the book “26 reasons why jews do not believe in jesus” that mr jesus tried to outlaw divorce. i cant say i read that in the gospels. but i thought this was a pretty good source of information. of course Judiasm does not forbid divorce. anyhow thats the information i have.
I really have no idea how to refer to this “personage”. ive heard many call him “yoshkie” which ill use around my jewish friends. if i am speaking to a non jew. i refer to him as mr jesus some of the time. and ill tell you that they really do not like that prefix. what can i say. hes a man. Ill call him mister.
Rabbi Hoffman probably did it because of the issur of zechiras elilim of a worshipped deity. I have learned long ago not to mess with Rabbi Hoffman in halacha – or in other things for that matter.
The Lubavitcher Rebbe explains this sugya very well and sheds much light on much confusion that most people have on this subject. Firstly the Rebbe is midayek that the gemora’s loshon is (see Yuma 9b, Sota 48b, Tosefta there perek 13, 4, Sanhedrin 11a)
(Once the last neviim Chagai, Zecharya & Malachi died) NISTALKA Ruach Hakodesh Miyisroel” Nistalka but not BATLA or PASKA which means it did not totally cease. In contrast see the loshon of the gemora Sota 48b where the gemora discusses other things that totally CEASED and for those the gemora DOES use the loshon Batla or Paska.
See L’kutei Sichos chelek 14 beg. pg 72 and Sefer Hasichos 5751 chelek 2 Shoftim beg. pg 780.
An absolute fascinating sicha in which the Rebbe states that we have a novi today in our generation who stated that Moshiach is soon to arrive!
A certain former xtian minister rejected xtianity and began to live as a Ben Noach, one of his sons went the next step and became a ger tzedek, one day the father was discussing JC with his Jewish son, the father was saying that many of JC’s teachings were good and valid, the son retorted that it was like picking corn out of cow pies, and the son asked his father once you pick the corn out of the cow pies would you eat that corn?
Obviously Stevie Riskin never bothered to notice that the Yeshu HaNotzri of the time of Rav Yehoshua Ben Prachiyah and the other Oso HaIsh, and whatever other nicknames the Gemara gave these enticers were not the same person, they all lived in different time periods, there were several false meshichim in the times of the gemara and none of them matches the details of JC of the NT.
First of, i wonder if in the times of Isaiah or Jeremiah, mainstream Jewish authorities also claimed that ‘prophecy was gone for good’. just wonder, ya’know. and whether those people, eventually made into great heroes of Jewish nation, were at their time also called heretics. oh wait, i’m pretty sure Torah states quite expressly that yes, they were; even to the point of being driven out of royal courts, threatened with death and so on
Second, correct me if i’m wrong, but Rashba lived in 1200s, while Jesus– 1100 before him, and before even much of Talmud was written down.
thirdly, trying to outlaw divorce or divert people’s attention from the physical order of making sacrifices, to the essence of Temple’s very existence, isn’t necessarily a bad thing. if we minded more what we make sacrifices for, and less how we do it, there might be no cause for somebody like J. even appearing. personally, i rahter sympathize with Christians’ upright stances on issues like divorce, abortion, gay-marriage, 10 commandments in courts or stem-cell research, than with Orthodox Judaism’s, or at least some of its leaders’ manner of swerving each way just to look ‘different’ and ‘kool’
How could anyone know that prophecy had ended if there was no prophet to announce that prophecy was over?
I heard Rabbi Riskin this Shabbos at The Shul (Chabad) in Surfside, Florida. Personally, I found the general tone overly apologetic towards Chr-stians, and I believe that the room was generally skeptical, if not occasionally hostile. One particularly pointed moment was when Rabbi Sholom Dovber Lipskar said that it was obvious that Yoschka (Riskin refers to him as Yeshu ha notzri) was obviously chayav misa, which Rabbi Riskin did not agree with. Also, Rabbi Riskin made some very confusing comments about going into a church (!), which I think pretty all poskim agree is assur. To be fair, that remains to be clarified, but I found the general approach of picking and choosing poskim to be very meikil regarding the Chr-stians to be unpleasant at best, but probably much worse. There was also criticism in the room of Rabbi Riskin regarding accommodation of Oslo (i.e. not wanting to upset the Israeli government), and minimizing the danger of missionaries (Hagee might be fine, but many others spend hundreds of millions to convert Jews). I am glad that I heard the presentation, but found it very unsettling, and I am sure that this incident that you report is not the last word on the matter. I also found constantly pointing the finger at Islamic extremism to be distracting from the real issues (overly lenient Jews, missionaries, and secular humanism).
Why are there so many comments on this matter? It should be OBVIOUS to all that rabbi riskin’s behavior and his connection to the evangelizing world is beyond the pale and deserves no further discussion, as it is something that all our sages are in agreement with!!
#46 – Your response is meaningless here because you speak of rabbis and their conduct which are personal matters and they, of course, should not be rabbis or leave the clergy. But, here, this above mentioned rabbi is creating a very dangerous situation (and for some time) where he is cozying up with another religion, of which all gdolim from time immemorial have prohibited. There is something that is not right with his actions and many people – clergy and laymen alike see it and feel it.
#48 – Excuse me, your rationalization makes no sense whatsoever. Firstly, when you compare him to Rabbi Y. Levin’s actions, there is no comparison; he just joins the christians at rallies or at voting times to stop certain law passing through that most religions and people of the world all unite – basic Noahide laws. He does not have communications or dialogues, etc. with other religions. When it comes to discussing matters of religion, it has been and still is something that all G’dolim will agree with, that we have no dialogues with them. Plain and pashut and just ordinary common sense. Rabbi Riskin’s association has been very suspect and unlike other Orthodox rabbis, in connection with Christianity.