New York – An association of mohelim is vowing to defy the New York City Department of Mental Health’s (DOHMH) regulation requiring parents to sign consent forms before the performance of metzitzah b’peh, the Forward reports (http://bit.ly/12aCTW4).
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The American Board of Ritual Circumcision, which lists 52 mohelim on its website hailing from New York, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, California, Ohio and Wisconsin, has said its members will not distribute the forms to parents before performing the controversial ritual. The board’s chairman, Rabbi Avrohom Cohn, said he has performed approximately 35,000 circumcisions with metzitzah b’peh for over 60 years without incident. He said his mayor is the “Almighty,” and he will not adhere to Mayor Bloomberg’s new directive.
The form is a straightforward, one-page document requiring the name of the mohel, the infant’s date of birth, the date of the bris, and the printed name and signature of a parent. The text states that the parent agrees to allow metzitzah b’peh to be performed despite the potential of exposing “an infant to the risk of transmission of herpes simplex virus infection, which may result in brain damage or death.” Although the DOHMH approved the measure last September, a temporary injunction filed by opponents of the regulation prevented it from being enforced until after a federal court reviewed the case.
On January 10, Manhattan Judge Naomi Reice Buchwald denied the request for a preliminary injunction. Four days later, the DOHMH posted the consent form on its website in both Yiddish and English. Proponents of the practice have filed a notice of appeal with the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Second Circuit which is currently pending.
In a statement to the Forward, the DOHMH said, “Failure by a mohel who practices metzitzah b’peh to produce the relevant signed consent forms on request is a violation of the New York City Health Code” which could lead to “a range of penalties, including financial” ones.
Rabbi Chaim David Zwiebel, executive vice president of Agudah, said his organization has not specifically directed its members to comply with or to flout the new regulation. “We would tell them [parents] that the regulation is in effect” and that “they should act accordingly,” Zwiebel said. “We are certainly not advising civil disobedience. Certainly, we have placed our eggs in the legal basket, and frankly we think we have a strong legal case to be made, and we’re hopeful in the end we will prevail.”
Rabbi David Niederman, a representative of the Central Rabbinical Congress, said his organization has also not decided whether or not to advise its constituency to comply with the measure.
New York City Councilman Lew Fidler told the Forward the regulation was a moot point because it is “probably next to impossible to enforce.” “Will you have undercover agents at a bris?” Fidler asked. “In the end, this will probably be a regulation flagrantly violated.”
While the DOHMH has said it has “no plans for continuous monitoring” of mohelim, it will “request forms from mohelim when investigating neonatal herpes cases potentially caused by direct oral suction or when investigating complaints by parents of direct oral suction.”
In the meantime, Rabbi Cohn said he is organizing a “day of prayer” outside Mayor Bloomberg’s City Hall office to “draw millions of people” who believe “in the existence of God.”
i am waiting for ALTERG to come out of his cave this morning and make his usual neanderthal pronouncement on an important and sensitive issue
halacha requires committment to tradition but i believe reasonable health concerns are also a halachaic imperative
Where does the Department of Mental Health come into the picture? NYS does have a Dept of Health who should be involved, not the DOMH. I guess the people making the ruling are mentally incompetent, other than that I don’t see any need for DOMH.
If the Gemoroh, Rishonim and Poskim write, that the reason for doing MBP is, because without it, it’s, “Sekanah Hi L’yeled”, how could anyone argue that MBP is part of the Mitzvah?
L’Halocho, MBP is like raising your head out of the water after Tevilla shel Mitzvah. You’re still involved in the activities of Tevilla but its no longer a Mitzvah.
If MBP would be part of the Mitzvah, we would do it, even when we Malleh older boys who are Balei Tshuvah.
Crazy mayor, how can he mix in in religious stuff? Why is he not banning driving cars its 100 times more dangerous & everyday people dying much more then mitziza bpa? Anyway waste of time it will not work out, lot of antisamitn tried already in the last 5000 year & didn’t work out
People we can change the law we have the power. Wake up lets support the candidate for mayor who will repeal Mtziza peh. So far I believe Thompson has made it a key issue. We got Dinkins out of office by unting and joining a large frum block we can do it now to. It is much more practical and powerfull then expecting to win in court. Lets unite!
Not only do these people want to perform a dangerous practice, but they are even going to break the law to do it. I guess the Shulchan Aruch — which mandates following the law of the land — means nothing to them.
I think the timing is unfortunately very bad.
The Jewish community (frum) is right now experiencing terrible bad press (some of it well deserved and some of it not) and I think it’s time to lay low right now.
Why now? Why give the media more to write about? Sometimes you have to get out of the “fight” mode and use some common sense.
Lay low and let this entire media blow over and then fight! Right now I cannot see any way that the frum community will win anything
Amazing. We live in a day and age in which people proudly use a claim of fearing hashem to endanger the lives of infants. If anyone wants to know on which side yiras shomaim falls, read about that shifrah and puah did when they feared hashem.
Chutzpah yaazeh, sure, but who knew how far it could go?
35,000 brisim by one person-come on! “Draw millions of people…:”? Rabbi, your hyperbole doesn’t help the cause!
The form is simple and doesn’t stop anyone from doing anything. It is forcing the mohel to be honest and truthful about the risks of MBP. If he cannot be honest and truthful about the risks, then how can we trust him to be honest and truthful about his health. I wouldn’t want to use such a dishonest person.
I don’t understand why the Mohelim don’t want parents to know the health risks. If parents truly accept the opinion that it is a Chiyuv, wouldn’t they do it anyway?
After all this time I still don’t get it. Why would anyone object to signing a waiver? No-one is saying it’s against the law and MBP can’t be done, just sign the paper & continue. The ones who are all up in arms are the Mohelim, but why?????? Is there really something to hide? Why don’t they want their names documented? I can’t imagine that they are objecting over the “principle” of the law. I just don’t understand what the whole uproar is about.
Basically the law states that anything religious that a politician does not agree with:
He could force the Rav/Mohel/teacher to get a signed form from the recepient about its dangers.
The Federal Judge ruled that it is constitutional.
An extreme example would be that if the “Reform Bloomberg” decides that Chumash is “ancient and a danger to modern philosophies” he could cause a Rov to get a signed consent form from all his Talmidim.
Does that make sense?
Not for the protection of the mohel. For the incrimination of the parents. Family child services will sweep into the family, with proof that the parents are incompetent (i.e., they agreed to a dangerous procedure), and take away all of the kids to foster care, likely not in a frum environment (because the frum agree to such dangerous things).
Very, very slippery slope.
Utter stupidity. All that is required is that parents of a newborn be informed that metzitzah b’peh has risks and that they are aware of this. This is no different to the consent form signed in every hospital before every surgical procedure. And, well, parents should indeed be informed, and if the information worries them they should discuss it with their rov and then make an informed decision as to how to proceed, which is why it is called “informed consent”.
The Gemara in Shabbos (I think Perek 19 I don’t recal the exact daf) states
“A Mohel who does not suck – should be removed from proffession”.
It seems that already in the times of the Gemara there were people against Metzitza. (Some poskim write that it is Halach L’moshe Misinia).
We live in a world where a million dollar asiffa is created to proclaim the “risks” associated with internet use but G-d forbid we should use the brain we were given to offer INFORMATION related to risks involved when MBP is utilized. These are Talmudei Chachamim? There is nothing smart about them.
I used to be a big fan about voting for a Jewish Politician – even Non Religious.
Now I’m seeing that during campaign they come running to the Frume communities. Later when these politicians try to add their inputs into our Yidishkiet and the Frume communities refuse to comply – They make laws and begin prosecutions.
Both Hynes and Bloomberg started out by trying to persuade Rabbonim. When they saw that the Rabbonim are not complying – look what they do!
(Guiliani for example – a non Jew – at least respected our religion and mixed out!)
Here goes.
Even if there were a legitimate health concern (there is not), I don’t want Bloomberg governing my Judaism even one iota. Not with a consent form, not with a simple hassle-free waiver. Nothing.
Perhaps some of the sycophants will fawn over this law as progress and sensibility. Maybe we should institute fingerprinting and registration to practice our religion? After all, it doesn’t harm anyone… Just so we should know who’s who and ensure that there are no predators in our midst…
I personally believe that the Agudah and Niederman both failed colossally to stand up for our community.
If Rabbi Cohn were to get a growth removed at a dermatologist’s office, and the doctor sucked on the bleeding wound with his mouth, what would happen? Two phone calls–one to the Board of Health and the other to a malpractice lawyer.
Frum Jews may disagree with the theory of evolution or the age of the universe. They are not entitled to deny the germ theory of disease.
The Metzitza issue has been a recurring one on this site for the last year. Almost on a weekly basis.
Perhaps, those of you who oppose mayor Bloomberg’s intrusion into religious rite and ritual should rethink your position on gun control. The same intrusion on the first amendment is present on the second amendment. Just to be clear, the founding fathers understood that religious freedom, the freedom of speech and to assemble, the right of people to be secure in their persons and effects; is assured be EVERYONE’S right to keep and bear arms. If people are free to bear arms they are free to defend their speech and religious practice from tyrannical majorities or tyrannical rulers. Think about it
Is it any surprise that those who attempt to impose and curtail people’s rights (laws against trans fat, sugary drinks, calorie count etc, more taxes, metzitza Bpeh (soon shechita)) are those who speak loudest against the freedom to bear arms.
Remember, a benevolent government is never afraid of an armed citizenry. It is the dictators or heads of regimes who fear armed civilians. Indeed, it is their first target when they assume power. Ask your grandparents
I can’t help but admire this American Board of Ritual Circumcision (the board I didn’t even know excised until I saw it here, and whose name doesn’t really make civil disobedience spring to your mind). They remind me of the stories about the heroic mohelim in the soviet Ukrain of the Lenin-Stalin period, about whom I read in books and heard from the eyewitnesses. They were mercilessly hunted down by the communist beasts and in many cases swiftly executed if caught performing the mila. Yet a number of them persevered and many yidden were able to have bris mila because of their fearlessness (even the sons of some members of the despised Yevsectzia). These American mohelim who commit themselves to outright civil disobedience come from the good stock! Yasher kochecha to them.
And I want to add that this councilman Fidler is at least a realistic fellow: part of me really wants to enjoy watching these r’shoyim try to enforce their antisemitic law.
The ritual of MbP is very old. Eliezer did Mbp on Rivka’s ear, when he wounded her by piercing her ears with the Nezem Zo’hov. And its brought down, that, that caused Rivka to fall off the camel when she saw Yitchok Oveinu.
Question:
If Metzitza Bepeh is an absolute part of the Bris, why is not done on adult converts? or baalei teshuva?
It was 1837 and this was chatams sofer response when asked about what to do since MBP was causing death
“We only find metzitzah b’peh as a requirement by the kabbalists, who assert that one must mitigate the strict attribute of justice with the mouth and lips. However, we have no dealing with hidden matters if there is at all even the slightest concern of a health hazard…. Therefore, as long as we can draw out the blood from the faraway places, it may be done in any way possible. We should believe the experts regarding which act is as effective as oral suctioning. I will go even further: Even if the Talmud had explicitly stated that one must suction with his mouth [I would still maintain that one may use a sponge], since the act of suctioning is not an integral part of the mitzvah of milah, but is rather merely done to avert danger to the child. To wit, according to the halachah, if one circumcises and does peri’ah but neglects to suction, he has completely fulfilled the mitzvah….12”
what’s the big fuzz about this, let all the junk phony Rabbi’s who received and endorsed Bloomberg at their houses together with the two biggest con artist the Jewish community at large has ever had, as they are called the “two Joe’s Goldberger and Menzcer” go to City Hall, Pray, Fast, say Tehilim for fooling the community but making a bundle of money on the side.
All these Ra-bunim that shook Bloomberg’s and Vito Lopez hands should not touch a Jewish child, we in the community should have learned a lesson, but we didn’t.
There will be another election in the coming year for all citywide positions, REMEMBER-REMEMBER vote against what these leaders and Ra-bunim tell you and you will be much better off.
Shame on these leaders and Ra-bunim for dressing in a Purim custom and misleading the torah at the same time telling the people what to or not to read, or to have Internet or not-non of these two are in the torah, MEZIZAH B”Pah and a NOAF are.
Some people are saying who cares about a stuped signed form.
A probable outcome from this law is:
Around 300 infants die each year from herpes in the US. These infants are both girls and boys that did not have Metzitza B’peh. That means that around 3000 Infants will die in the next 10 years from Herpes.
1-Chances are that a few of the dead infants will be from the 1,000,000 frume Jews.
2- As soon as an infant will die they will run to the mohel asking for the letter.
3- When the Mohel fails to present the letter he will be all over the news and get “103” years in prison.
4- That eventually leads to a total ban on Metzitza B’peh (at least in this country).