JERUSALEM (VINnews) — In a dramatic move at the end of the summer “zman”(yeshiva term), the venerable Kol Torah yeshiva in Jerusalem has expelled tens of bochurim, including some of its star students. The sudden decision is based on an old directive issued by Rabbi Elazar Menachem Shach in 1994, prohibiting all yeshiva students from obtaining a driver’s license. The directive came in the wake of a number of serious road accidents involving yeshiva students.
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During that period, the Vaad Hayeshivos went as far as saying that yeshiva students who had licenses would not receive military deferments. Most of the yeshivas accepted the directive and forbade students from obtaining a license. In most yeshivos the directive has remained in place but usually is not enforced. For example, there is no enforcement in Ponovezh on this issue and in many yeshivos students are allowed to obtain a license while in their fifth year in yeshiva (age 21-22).
In the Kol Torah yeshiva there was no official policy against driving licenses until recent years, when it was decided to change and prohibit obtaining a license. A student from the yeshiva related to Kikar Hashabat that “until a few years ago, nobody checked who had a license, but now they have decided to be more stringent and boys from younger shiurim about whom the yeshiva was informed that they have a license were expelled from the yeshiva. Older students were also expelled if the yeshiva had a reason to remove them and they also had a driver’s license.”
However the current action is far more extreme, according to the student: “They threw out ten exceptional students, all from fifth year and above, over the age of 21. They are not from the weaker students, they are the best students in sixth year and one of them is even a chavrusa of one of the rosh yeshivos, another is connected to the adminstration, this is truly a drama.”
The student added that in the past some students had been expelled for this reason “and then committed to all kinds of things and came back after a few days” but in this case an entire group has been thrown out. He explained that “the rosh yeshiva said that he can’t do anything about it because he needs to create a deterrent for the younger boys so that they won’t obtain a license, so he expelled the older boys even though they are among the best students in the yeshiva.”
The bachurim who were expelled said that they did not intend to go elsewhere, since at their age -sixth year- it would be difficult for them to acclimatize in another place and they are already involved in shidduchim. They said that they would be without a place to learn in the Elul zman.
I have one question?
What difference does it make if they were the best students or not?
You keep on mentioning in the article that these boys are the best in the Yeshiva.
Well I have some news for you.
Every boy is the best boy!!!!
Unfortunately today we measure every boy if he is the best or not.
That’s totally wrong.
When you see a boy, whether he is in Yeshiva or not, treat him as the best boy around, you know why? Because he is!!!!
While I disagree with the no license policy, I can accept it if that is what was decreed by Gedolei Yisroel. My problem with all this is about how the matter is handled. Expulsion is a major event, and using it impulsively is a huge problem.
Expelling a bochur from yeshiva is a permanent stain on his reputation. It risks many things, including impeding shidduchim, shame, reactions of leaving the derech, and even future generations.
Making someone into an example as a deterrent is not a simple conclusion. Halacha does not support this easily. Even the mekaleil was only given skilah because HKB”H expressly instructed Moshe to carry out the sentence.
One can question the issue of possessing a license. Is that the infraction? Should it be? Having the ability to do something benign might not be the crime. Making it illegal according to yeshiva rules can be argued as a power grab. Proof is that the possession of the card in the pocket had zero effect on the learning of these bochurim. Had they driven during the zman, which might sensibly be considered a violation, I hear the argument.
Others raised the sudden enforcement of the rule which had been ignored until this point. One may justly wonder why now. Is this an effort to appear on the “scene” as a “better” yeshiva that boasts stronger restrictions? For one, I am not so quick to be impressed by this use of “midas hadin”. I would be better impressed by observing the Roshei Yeshiva working with the bochurim, not against them. That’s the form of chinuch that has greater positive impact on Klal Yisroel. And this position has been stated and reiterated by the greatest of Gedolei Yisroel throughout our history. Check out the well known quote from the Chazon Ish who considered expulsion dinei nefashos requiring a BD of 23.
This petulant behavior on the part of the Yeshiva would never have happened in past years. Who would want to learn in a place where you could all of a sudden get kicked out for violating some rule that was suddenly enforced out of the blue?
Well now they’ll drive to job interviews
At least the Yeshiva is implementing this accross the board and not exempting those whose family have money and influence.
They won’t get a military deferment?? What insanity!! Sure, let’s just completely turn them off and throw all these bochurim under the bus. Including the “star students”. Unbelievable!! Moshe Rabeinu would be very proud.
Problem is you see them hitchhiking all over the place which I wouldn’t think is any safer than driving themselves.
This Idea of shutting people down isolating people from the world instead of working with it needs to end. These are teenage boys explain to them what’s wrong what’s right let them see you the rebbie as an example how to be to model and what the Torah says about life “stop babying them!!” They are not creating an environment for real growth it sounds like a prison!! Instead you know what it breeds FAKNESS!! so now these bochrim don’t want to get expelled so they hide that they have a licenses and a cellphone and then they live this double standard life!! You know what the message they hear in this yeshiva is DONT GET CAUGHT!!??? STOP TRYING TO HOLD BACK THE RIVER AND START WORKING WITH IT!!
I wonder if they were given warnings , and a chance to relinquish their licenses .But , It’s a good opportunity for women in some Haredi factions to gain some empathy , who can never drive , no matter how old .
is there something wrong with having a driver’s license? I can understand non Kosher phones, but what is wrong with having a driver’s license?
Great job guys
We do everything possible to reduce the number of OTD’s
That “Kol Torah” will surely be diminished now. How ironic. Craziness!!
The smarter reaction from the Yeshivah, in lieu of the impulsive reaction, would have been to CONFISCATE the license from the bochurim that have one, until their final day in the Yeshivah, whenever that would be, this year, next year etc.
That would have ended the driving career for them until they left the Yeshivah and would NOT have destroyed them emotionally, spiritually or otherwise. In fact, it would have resolved the issue and allowed both the Yeshivah as well as the bochurim to save face !!!
What a great example the yeshiva set for loving your fellow Jews!
I man I know called the Yeshiva asking for the 2nd best Bachur (he’s very humble) for a Shidduch for his daughter. He’s still waiting on hold.
I can’t comment one way or the other on this issue. This is way above my pay grade. I’ll remain quiet for once.
what a shame, we should stop supporting with money Yeshivas like this. funney from 1994 untile today its 28 years, what happen now?
I’m waiting for the yeshiva to install a hitching post so all he bochurim who don’t dorm can tie their donkeys thereto when they arrive in the morning!
I think this no license policy is in dispute among Gedolei Torah. I learned 4 years in Bais Hatalmud under the Goan Rav Dov Schwartzman, and not only did many of the bachurim drive (virtually all of the Americans) even Rav Dov’s wife drove. I think the expelled bachurim should take the Yeshiva (administration) to a Din Torah. I am a judge and a dayan, and I often try to encourage the parties to make a pshara. In this case, perhaps the pshara would be that during the Zman, the Yeshiva holds onto the licenses. However, if a bachur has a special need to drive, for example on a shidduch, the Yeshiva returns his license until he is done driving for that day.
Why doesnt the Yeshivah TEACH RESPONSIBLILITY
DISCUSSION ON ROAD SAFETY
YESHIVAHS SHOULD BE TEACHING HOW TO BEHAVE PROPERLY.
NOT JUST HOW TO LEARN!
MAYBE IF U TOOK THE NEEDS OF DEVELOPING A STUDENT TO BE A RESPONSIBLE PERSON AND EXACTLY WHAT THAT MEANS, WHETHER ON THE STREET OR WHEREVER HE MAY BE,
LESSONS OF HOW TO TALK AND ACT RESPECTFULLY
BEING CONSIDERATE TO ALL
SAFETY CONSCIOUSNESS
THEN PERHAPS THERE WOULD BE LESS ROAD ACCIDENTS.
THROWING BOYS OUT OF YESHIVAH BECAUSE THEY HAVE A DRIVERS LICENSE IS NOT THE REASON TO THROW THEM OUT.
LIVE WITH THE TIMES AND TEACH PEOPLE HOW TO BEHAVE RESPECTFULLY.
OTHERWISE
YOU ARE JUST A BUSINESS LOOKING OUT FOR YOUSELF AND YOU REALLY DONT CARE.
IT SOUNDS NICE THAT A YESHIVAH IS MEANT TO ONLY STUDY THE TORAH, THAT WOULD BE GREAT IF YOU ONLY HAD MENTCHIN IN YOUR YESHIVAHS.
BUT THAT IS UNFORTUNATELY NOT ALWAYS THE CASE.
ITS TIME TO WAKE UP AND TEACH SOCIAL SKILLS.
ALSO
NO MORE PUSHING AND SHOVING WHEREVER YOU ARE!
BE RESPECTFUL !!!
BUT
ALL YOU CARE ABOUT IS YOUR SALARY.
TRULY SAD
Why are we all judging having heard just one side? What has become of us? Are we all free to give our opinion when we hardly know what we’re talking about? Aren’t these the 9 days? Shouldn’t we be a little more adherent? Come on Rabosai!
OY.. They are involved in shidduchim? …. mit licenses — nebach!
They should also give the students malkes
This is literally the exact plot of Shabbanukim. The buchrim actually start “Chevron Chadush” So maybe “Kol Torah Chadush” will be born…
I know a law-abiding, upstanding Jewish Person from a famous Rabbinical family in the US, whose male members have a tradition of being responsible drivers. He learns in this Yeshiva. Should he be judged unfairly, because of a few students, with poorer socio-economic backgrounds (which often teach them to shun all “Zionist” laws, including [sic.] traffic laws) were made suddenly worldly rich, and then drove their cars irresponsibly, almost 30 years ago?
Once 21 and in shidduchim o still apply a ban seems antiquated.
I attend Kol Torah and commute each day on the shoulders of my purple slave who is owned by me under under an archaic Talmudic era law well preceding 1994. I will certainly not transgress the driver license law. It’s certainly understandable to be a slave taskmaster but not a licensed driver. I hope the non slave owners will not now illegally drive cars unlicensed.
I find it hard to believe HaRav S. Z. Aurbach zatzal would have taken such course of action while he was RH”Y.
As mentioned, Ponovezh was the one who first set the takana, and they allow for 5th yr. Go figure.
Chelm at helm not only for politicians there.
Predictions:
Kol Torah bans parents of their students from owning cars.
Students borrow cars and drive unlicensed.
Accidents and problems do not decrease
In 5-10 years Kol Torah unofficially reverses its policy by no longer investigating who has a license.
In 25-30 years, same cycle begins anew.
Send the kinderlech on subways etc.
Problem starts at top
Chelm at helm
The yeshiva is allowed to make rules for its students.
So absolutely no shoratge of plenty more deserving ישיבות to dispense my צדקה מעשר money to, as we head into ימים נוראים season which effectively begins this Monday as soon as תשעה ב”אב is behind us.
Thou shalt not have a driver’s license neither for donkey etc., do you hear that Mashiach?
So non religious public transportation is Chelmly preferable?
We should ban cell phones as well
oy
Not enough the students should be put in cheyrim
I don’t see a difficulty here.
אוֹתִי נָהַג וַיֹּלַךְ, חֹשֶׁךְ וְלֹא-אוֹר.
“They are not from the weaker students, they are the best students in sixth year and one of them is even a chavrusa of one of the rosh yeshivos, another is connected to the adminstration, this is truly a drama.”
Really ? How exceptional are these students if they have the chutzpah to obtain a driver’s license? Bums all of them, throw them all out! What’s next ? Smartphones? Dating ?
Before people mock this Yeshiva, they should note that driving in the Zionist paradise is less civilized than in normal Western countries.
Kudos to the yeshiva.
We need to combat pollution, traffic congestion, warming, accidents, and other problems caused by cars. There should be limits on cars generally, but societal awareness of the problem still needs to be developed. But at least students can lead the way for the future.
Having learnt in eretz yisroel for 7 years im familiar with the yeshiva scene in eretz yisroel
KOL TORAH is known as a top notch yeshiva where very serious bochurim,baale kishron are accepted. its one of the oldest established, venerated yeshivas, who had gedole torah as their roshe yeshiva throughout its history.
it seems the quality boys who attended until now werent in need of such rules in the past but lately even such a choshuva mokom torah needed to address this issue though it wasnt enforced until now for the older bochurim, who are already in the parsha of shiduchim, they needed to lay down the rules lman yishmu veyeru.for the younger bochurim