OPINION: Chinuch is Not a License to Force Children to Do Things They Don’t Want to

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NEW YORK (Yaakov M / VINnews) — In this week’s Chinuch Roundtable, a father asked whether he should “persuade” his 12 year old son to attend their Rav’s Shabbos drasha after davening.

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Most boys his age (and some adults) do not stay inside shul. The father believes it is disrespectful for them to leave, however his son prefers to hang out with the other kids.

The esteemed panelists held an array of opinions about whether the father should push the boy to remain inside.

First, let me say that we all sincerely want what’s best for the child, even if we have different approaches. With that said, I would like to add a perspective that I feel was not emphasized in the responses.

I do not believe that “Chinuch” entails pressuring or forcing children to do things they do not want to do. The obligation of chinuch requires a parent to guide, direct, and teach. But we should never force children for spiritual reasons.

Let’s break this scenario down a bit.

One aspect of chinuch requires a parent to teach his child to perform mitzvos and not do aveiros. A father must instruct his child to wear tefillin, bentch, learn Torah, avoid lashon hara, avoid chillul Shabbos, and other mitzvos. This is a requirement.

A second aspect of Chinuch is teaching children the proper middos. This is no doubt a crucial aspect of chinuch and parenting, perhaps even the most important. However it is nuanced and subjective, and it’s hard to set blanket rules for all situations.

In the scenario raised, it is difficult to see any concrete mitzvah or aveira. I don’t believe that anyone feels that the boy is halachically obligated to remain in shul, or doing an aveira by leaving (other than bitul Torah, which is not relevant to the question).

This was a question of proper middos, which may not have the same parameters as concrete mitzvos.

I believe that the father has no obligation to force the boy to remain against his will, as a means of teaching proper respect. In fact, it is probably detrimental to his growth.

Sure, the boy may be outwardly going through the motions and showing respect for the Rav. But is he happy to be there? Will he feel resentful?

He will be wishing that he can be with his friends, and years later, when his father is not there, the boy will be more likely to escape Rabbi’s speeches, which he has been taught are a burden, rather than learning that it is a valuable way to spend his time.

To fulfill his chinuch obligation, the father needs to teach the proper perspective. He must express that the respectful thing is to remain inside. He needs to teach the proper middos and Ratzon Hashem. If the son chooses to do “the wrong thing”, I believe the father has fulfilled his obligation.

Hopefully the son will internalize the lesson. That is somewhat beyond our control.

Chinuch is not a license to force or pressure children, or even badger them and make them feel overly guilty. It is an obligation to teach children the emes, and let them decide how to proceed (which in this case, it sounds like the father did.)

As far as respecting the Rav, while that is certainly something we should be sensitive toward, it is not the problem of a twelve year old who wants to have fun with friends. (To be clear, if a child is actively hurting another person, that would be different, and a parent would need to intervene. However this situation is not comparable to those.)

My son told me the following story about the yeshiva he learned in, where the boys were allowed to choose which shiur to attend. As one would expect, the more popular Rebbeim attracted large crowds, while some Rebbeim only had 2-3 boys in their shiur.

My thoughtful and conscientious son asked a mentor if he should attend one of the less popular shiurim, out of concern for the Rebbi’s feelings being hurt. He was given a profound reply (paraphrased): “Yes the Rebbi’s ego may be hurt, but you should not be solving that at the expense of your personal growth.”

While not a perfect parallel, this is a crucial lesson. We sometimes push our children to do the “right thing” for others, while not taking into account whether it is best for THEM.

We can choose to sacrifice OURSELVES for the sake of others, but we have no right to sacrifice our children. They are people, and have a right to decide (with heavy guidance from parents) whether they want to suffer for the sake of another.

The author studied in Kollel for 14 years, was a Bais Medrash Rebbi over a decade, taught eleventh grade bekius, and obtained smicha from a top Rosh Yeshiva.

THE VIEWS EXPRESSED DO NOT NECESSARILY REFLECT THOSE OF VIN NEWS


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31 Comments
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Kats
Kats
1 year ago

This is a great article. I believe it would be more powerful if the author signed his name

Kollelfaker
Kollelfaker
1 year ago

More children are turned off when forced to go something they aren’t ready for or welling to do. Let them be children and by YOUR example they will learn b

Reuvain from Flatbush
Reuvain from Flatbush
1 year ago

I agree with the author.

Chamor HaDor
Chamor HaDor
1 year ago

Well written.
Nuff said

anon
anon
1 year ago

I actually try to convince my kid to leave by the drasha after davening. He’s only 9 and doesn’t understand it. I want him to go out and socialize a bit, yet he insists on staying. If he was a little older and would understand it, I would hope he stays. I think it’s completely dependent on each child and not just their age (which is a factor as well), whether a parent should encourage their child to stay in for the drasha. There’s no blanket answer as every child is different and should be handled differently. Nobody knows their child better than their parents.

Would have been nice if the author put his name.

Karen Silverman
Karen Silverman
1 year ago

Okay these are his credentials… no chinuch:

The author studied in Kollel for 14 years, was a Bais Medrash Rebbi over a decade, taught eleventh grade bekius, and obtained smicha from a top Rosh Yeshiva.

Memere613
Memere613
1 year ago

Very well written

Ruby
Ruby
1 year ago

As with any chinuch question there are numerous subtle variables that can swing the correct answer in either direction..just to mention a few..is the boy above avg type, is the speech 15 min or 45, in this family is the rav a real thing ma and ta ask listen.., ofcourse on the flip side.. if staying makes you a big neb , or u need to ” badger”, other battles first..your own negios. than nisht

DLZ
DLZ
1 year ago

I disagree, respectfully, Children (and until a certain age- which is individual to the child) need direction, chinuch and usually thrive under their parents loving guidance. As long as LOVE and CARING is what is guiding the fathers direction, and he wants his son to benefit from the Ravs drasha, (as opposed to other motives) then the son will grow and develop strongly. Sh’ma b’nee mussar Avicha. As long as the father is a loving, caring and benevolent one who takes into account his sons abilities at the time, and wants his benefit- then others shouldnt interfere. Chinuch is individual.

Zelig
Zelig
1 year ago

Rambam says to bribe them with candies.

Never force them.

The point of chinuch is so they do it when they grow up, and joyfully.

Forcing and badgering achieves the opposite effect for them once they are on their own.

Hatzlacha Rabba

s w
s w
1 year ago

The author may be an accomplished Talmud chochom and May not be wrong. However, his opinion should have been brought to the mechanichim on the round table, and could ask the question publicly. However, VIN is not the place to debate this topic, because it feels like you are questioning those mechanchim , without the proper context of the question and answers provided, without giving them a chance to respond (and I’m not saying you are wrong).

Freefacer
Freefacer
1 year ago

Very important article.
BH, I have a 7 year old grandson whose father learns and teaches Torah all day in Yerushalayim. The boy is in 2nd grade knows many mishnayos baal peh, and can open a kitzur SA and read and understand fluently. He davens from his own siddur at school (age appropriate) and has stellar middos for a boy his age. *He does not attend shul or minyanim with his father.* As it is not his place to do so yet. When the time is right, and he has a real understanding of his role and responsibilities with regards to tefilla b’tzibbur, he will do so willingly and lovingly, Be’H.
I see so many fathers who force their young sons to sit next to them in shul, while they struggle themselves to find meaning, inspiration and connection through tefilla. They would be best exerting their forceful efforts inward to find meaning in their own experience. That would translate well, by example, to their children.

Chaim
Chaim
1 year ago

Good post!

Wyatt the watermelon
Wyatt the watermelon
1 year ago

Is it a mitzvah to be nice to your kids?

Triumphinwhitehouse
Triumphinwhitehouse
1 year ago

My father forced me to do many Yiddish things and I turned out just fine my rebbe forbade all music and I came out fine