Ramapo, NY – I am not at all surprised to read that Ramapo Town Supervisor Christopher St. Lawrence is in arrears for his property tax bill. (“Ramapo supervisor overdue on property taxes,” Dec. 21.) What surprises me is how he let this happen. Didn’t he learn anything from the precious voting bloc from Ramapo during his terms as supervisor? Join our WhatsApp group
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First, St. Lawrence can declare himself a rabbi. Then he can make the house a yeshiva. Then he can demand tax-free status for the property.
If the Rabbinical College of Tartikov wins its lawsuit to build a rabbinical college in Pomona, he can apply to be a trained as a judge. After all, his degree from Harvard should count. Wait, he doesn’t have a degree from Harvard. No problem, the rabbinical college is not accredited anyway. If accepted, he gets 15 years of tax-free living.
Once he’s done there, he will be at retirement age anyway and can move to Florida like the rest of Rocklander retirees!
Ed Kobus
Pomona
To the Readers of this newspaper from Ed Kobus. I was alerted to this site by my friend who searched me through Google. For those who are offended by my letter to the Journal News, I apologize. I did not intend to paint the entire Jewish community in Rockland with a “broad stroke” as not paying taxes, etc. In fact, most of the sarcasm that was in the original letter was intended to be biting criticism of St. Lawrence. Much of the content was edited by the newspaper, leaving it’s interpretation as not necessarily sarcastic. My frustration and point of view is directed at the Tartikov group. As a resident of Pomona, I do not support thier plans to completely change the character of the town by adding 10,000 so-called student as long term residents. I am skeptical of a 15 yr program to study as a judge, regardless of how important the study is. Heck, the US Supreme Court only goes to law school for four years. To me, the Tartikov college is essentially tax free living for 15 years at my expense. Every day we read that Medicare and Medicaid costs are skyrocketing and prescious resources like water are dwindling. As a taxpayer with over $12000 a year in property taxes, I am sure I will pay more to support this college. I do not think the RIUPLA laws give any religious group, Christian, Muslim, or Jewish the right to “demand” a community to change it’s zoning laws. I attacked St. Lawrence becasue his second largest campaign contributor is the proposed developer of the college. Recently, Tartikov sued the village of Pomona calling the entire town anti-semites because in the elections of 2007, the townspeople elected officials that support thier view that a large, unaccredited college should not be built. Is it not hypocritical for members of the New Square and Kaiser voting block to gladly tout the power of the voting block to influence elections, as with St. Lawrence, Hillary and Kralik, yet support Tartikov by calling Pomona a town of anti-semites? After all, the village of Pomona just exhibited their right to elect people that support the common interests of the town. What I am saying is that cannot claim anti-semitism when you do not get your way, as Tartikov appears to be doing.
Last point, I do agree with those who question the whole idea of tax exemption for religious groups. At some point, the taxpayers cannot pay anymore. If you have an entire town or county full of religious groups, whether it be Hindu, Catholic, Muslim, Jewish, etc. who will pay to keep the town running???
There;s nothing anti-Semitic in this letter. The guy is protesting the politics of a man he dislikes, nothing more.
Once again most of the posters fail to get the real picture of the letter writer. It doesn’t matter to him what Tartikov or some other Jews (people) do that is not correct he blames the whole “bloc of voters” meaning all Jews. And to the poster who says that voicing an opinion doesn’t make him an anti-Semite thta is a very dangerous statementthe 1930’s should be a good indicator it only started with hatefull words. Being in Golus doesn’t mean you need to allow hate and bigotry. Many of PEOPLE Jews and non-Jews do things that are not correct or not legal no religion monopolizes incorrectness..
I was beginning to feel sympathy for Anonymous 5:44. I agree with much of what he said, and I happen to be a chossid.
I agree that there is a strong prevalence of “I don’t care about anyone except us” in the Chassidisher community, though it is not universal. And I believe it is a problem, and wrong haskafah.
But then the poster revealed more of his real feelings. He wrote: “Their neighborhoods are filled with piles of trash on the street and they don’t take care of their lawns or properties.
This I happen to know is completely untrue. This is a statement born out of hatred, in my opinion.
Each and every homeowner on my rather long street is Charedi (to the best of my knowledge), with only one or two of them not Chassidish. None are rich, and the homes are decent and modest. (This is an old section of Monsey.) And every single lawn and property is neat and kept properly, with only one exception. There is no trash piled anywhere in this neighborhood, and that is simply an out and out lie.
Perhaps this anti-Chossid poster passed by a home where someone was cleaning out the basement and had left trash outside to be picked up by the Sanitation Dept, which of course leads a bigot to the conclusion that “ALL Chassidism have trash outside their homes.”
About twenty years ago, long before I lived here in Monsey, I visited for Shabbos, and went to Pathmark to buy some things for Shabbos, among them a case of seltzer. I didn’t want to carry the case all the way out to the middle of the parking lot, so I brought the car over to near the doors, where other cars were also sitting, and I brought the box to the car. I was a new driver, and I hadn’t realized that I wasn’t allowed to park there.
As I was getting into my car to leave, some guy, not Chassidish, ran over to me and began yelling at me, “You people think you’re better than we are…” and on and on. At first, I had no idea what he was talking about. When I tried to exlain, he just shouted louder at me.
Finally, I just said to him, “You have an anger problem.” I closed my door and drove off.
Now, he, in his anger, never realized that all I needed was to be INFORMED of the issue, not yeled at. He went away that day ignorant of the fact that I was penitent of having parked there, and that in fact I resolved to never park there again. (And I have kept that resolution, since I now know it to be the law.)
Is that man less anti-Charedi than he was then? How could he be, when he even refuses to listen or learn?
That is the way hatred and bigotry works. You will say any lie, come to any conclusion, and refuse to learn the truth, as long as you can feed your hatred and anger.
As someone once wrote, “Prejudice seeks no relief.”
The poster has some legitimate complaints about Chassidim. I agree with them, in fact. So why is it necessary to invent lies? Aren’t the legitmate complaints enough? Because it’s not about the complaints. It’s about hatred and condemnation.
Which is wrong.
From the sound of most of the responses here here it seems that
the klall are onto the shtick & scamming that is being perpertrated against us & are sick & tired of it. It would be a mitzvah to be mefarsem to the general public that most of us are against all this corruption & not to lump all jews in one basket.
Of course they voted in St. Lawrence he seems to be experienced in not paying taxes. he specializes in running rough shod on building & saftey codes in return for votes.
(Well at least some Yeshivas will get some benefit from his open season on zoning)
Hey shulem macher you rally think eating cholent is going to make someone like living more in Monsey? Maybe this guy eats good chulent from his wife already. Is that what yashrus is, eating cholent? Where in choshen mishpat is cholent the taaina?
Hey sulem macher. I am anonymous 9:59. You think I am going to post my name and number? OK, but you go first. You think I am bitter? Maybe you are right. I am ready to leave Monsey for a more normal place. I like a normal life, not a shtick life. But I have a large family and moving is not so easy. If you knew who I was you would be surprised.
Mr anon of 9:59 AM
i would rather have a cup of coffe and some chasidesha chulent with you!
you sound to me as a very MAD man with lots of anger and venom, perhaps youre leading a misrable life, im sure i can poure some happines in your empty soul, so to eliminate your hatred on the beutiful monsey kehilah.
please post your name and number.
Wake up~! Kobus is just one of many thousands who feel the way he does. Buying him a cup of coffee is a nice gesture (that won’t happen) but it does not address the underlying problems in Monsey. Bottom line in Monsey is that the Chassidic developers are going to grab grab and grab as much as they can. The Section 8, Food Stamp crowd will continue to grab grab grab as much as they can get their hands on. The shtick machers are going to grab grab and grab whatever tax exemptions they can. That’s the reality and a cup of coffee (which will never be poured because no one from the from world is going to have a cup of coffee with Mr. Kobus) won’t mean a thing.
Is Kobus Jewish? Perhaps a better way than spewing this vile stuff back at him (and doing his dance with him), some askan should approach him quietly, offer to buy him a coffee and talk to him. I’m willing to bet that this is not the only issue he has with the greater Monsey Kehilla, and klal yisrael in general.
Jews come into the picture because it is the Jews, specifically the frum Jews, who keep Chris St. Lawrence in office. Without their votes, he would be selling insurance today. The Jews keep St. Lawrence in office, voting for him in blocs. He rewards them by letting the Chassidim build whatever they want wherever they want, no matter how outrageous, such as allowing huge ugly apartment buildings to be built on Route 306, and many other examples. That is the connection. There is widespread bitterness in and around Monsey because of this cooperation between St. Lawrence and the Chassidic developers who are tearing down all the trees and putting up huge ugly buildings.
just want to point out that the reason it’s an anti semitic letter is not because he is right or wrong rather it’s because he’s talking about the town supervisor not paying taxes and all of a sudden he’s blaming and nocking jews. where did jews come in to the picture?
The shtick and financial scandals that have come out of the frum world in recent years in Monsey have contributed to the general resentment against Chassidim. The New Square scandal, where they stole millions from the taxpayers and shnorred money from regular Jews for a yeshiva that did not exist has done huge damage to the image of Chassidim and Jews in general. I am a frum Jew and I hate to say it but I understand why the average gentile or secular Jew would be disgusted with a lot of what he sees in the frum world, at least in and around Monsey.
I’ve been living in the Monsey area for nearly 25 years. I am a so called Modern Orthodox, whatever that is. In other words, not a Chasid. There is no doubt that here in Monsey there is a lot of resentment towards religious Jews. Yes, some of it is plain old anti Semitism, but so what? You have that everywhere, all over the world. But in Monsey there is something else. The sad fact is that the Monsey “frum” community, specifically the Chassidish community, has done practically everything it can do to cause large scale resentment among the rest of the population. There is such a huge “us versus them” menaltity, it colors everything they do. They want things their way, period. The perception is that the Chassidish world doesn’t give a hoot about the rest of the society. That Monsey could burn to the ground and everyone get killed except them and it wouldn’t matter to them unless it affected them somehow. The Monsey Chassidish community carries on as if they are the kings and rulers of Monsey. There is widespread reliance on welfare and tax subsidies, some of it not kosher, and this is a well known fact which causes a lot of resentment. They don’t interact with anyone else unless it is to get some benefit for themselves. They have set up such an “us versus them” mentality, its like they are at war with the rest of us and couldn’t care less about what anyone else thinks. This is a fact. Their neighborhoods are filled with piles of trash on the street and they don’t take care of their lawns or properties. Of course this causes others to feel resentment.
Some years ago, when a Catholic friend and I visited Newport, R.I., he remarked that Salve Regina, a Catholic University, occupied extremely valuable property, much of it on the oceanfront. As a religious institution, the university paid no taxes. My friend remarked that the lack of this as taxable property on the tax rolls probably helped account for Newport’s high municipal taxes, the burden of which was thrown on residents. That did not make him anti-Catholic.
“O. Gevald” performed no mitzvah by submitting what may be the address and phone number of the Journal News letter writer. If G-d forbid, the information leads to harassment of any form, “Gevald” will have to seek forgiveness from the letter writer, unless Gevald has forgotten about “ben adam l’havero.” That could be a “Gevald!!”
Many synagogues open up just to get a tax credit. So with my Baba comment will my family be labled anti semites?
It seems that every time we disgareew ith a view point we immediately call people anti semites!
Anti semites should be saved for the Germans and Osama Bin Ladins.
Why not look up in the Websters dictionary what the word anti semite means and then blog your comments.
Bubby Macher
I pay TONS of taxes…. TONS of taxes in Monsey, (no, I’m not a developer) yet I fully support Ch. St. Lawrence. He is a Jew lover and that is what counts. We are yet to find a guy like him. He will do ANY toivah for a frum Yid!
All of the above comments are from the same source….
Yes, it’s about time we have affordable housing! It’s about time a two bedroom apartment costs $1500 rent! (But this price is the same in many places – I hear)
Trust me, If CSL would “not” win this elections, the price of rent would NOT go down, we would still NOT have affordable housing and “OY VA VOY” what tzoros we would chas vesholom have!
Comment by Envoy — December 30, 2007
3:26 pm
I would go so far as to say that this is not anti-semitism, because people who behave so despicably as a way of life do not deserve to be called Jews. No matter how long their peyos are and how black their coats are. Taking such abhorrent behavior and disguising it under the banner of religion is not fooling anyone, except perhaps themselves.
Needless to say there are plenty of good Chassidim, ehrlich people, and unfortunately the bad apples really ruin it for everyone.
It is incumbent upon all Jews who love Hashem and His Torah, and know that He loves truth and justice – to stand up for what is right and not tolerate such behavior from our fellow Jews. Dissociate yourselves from them and do not condone their fraud by tacitly approving of their “religious ways”.
Oh, come on. It was a crude attempt at sarcasm. The man is frustrated. The system has been gamed, supposedly l’shaim shomayim…and the ends of justify the means (not).
This is a good reminder that the majority of us try to act lifnim meshuras ha-din, but when you do hear about someone gaming either the religious or secular system, give him tochacha. They’re making the ehrlich majority look bad.
I realize that people have never needed a rational reason to be anti Semitic, but a few rotten apples certainly don’t need to help fuel the fire.
I,m sorry to tell you that not only he agrees with what he writes in his letter, But so do many of our own including my self.
It is very easy for somebody that probably dosent even pay his full taxes, to always yell at others Antisemite, Did you ever realize who is the one loosing out on all those SHTICK, Now let me tell you, All of us and that letter writer as well, Because it is us in the end that end up footing the bill for all those Bogus shtick
Now of course if somebody gets out and voices his opinion he is all over sudden an Anti Semite.
And of course we should all call him to make an even greater CHILUL HASHEM
And now do you still wonder why there are so many Anti Semites out there
To all those who call out “anti-semitism” – grow up, and open your eyes.
The man is speaking the shameful truth, and if that makes him anti-semitic, then I am anti-semitic too. As a frum Jew I want nothing to do with the frauds and phonies who masquerade as doing Hashem’s will when in fact they are doing anything but, and serving no interests but their own.
I think its time he realized he should move further away from the jews . If you dont like us get out. Thats what all my neighbors did in Monsey. He is definitly not a jew lover to say the least
A Monsey Yid
In response to monseyer…
What on earth is a “self-hating Jew?” I suppose that’s your way of dismissing the valid opinion of someone who also happens to be Jewish, who holds a view contrary to yours.
By the way, I was not suggesting the elimination/modification of the religious property tax exemption for Jews only; I was suggesting it for all religions (obviously). Laws can change!
perhaps the writer spent precious time trying to unpark his car when unzere menchen were double and triple parked, and no where to be found. Or perhaps he was budded just once to often at Pathmark
CSL might be having some financial difficulties. It happens to may of us. Im sure this wasnt on purpose-we all know it has to be paid and cant get away with it. He has a family just like the rest of us. Things happen-your short on money.
Anon. 3:39PM Don’t be naive. Veganovitch is not a Jewish name. Rather, it is of our enemies back in the old country. Those that were the advance-guard, and sometimes did a better Job in killing Jews ahead of the nazis.
It is OK discuss ANY issue, and discuss ANY subject. But to paint with a wide brush and besmirch an entire Community , definitely shows bigotry and hatred.
Liz
You need a good class on constitutional law.
1. Separation of church and state is one of the defining great values in the USA.
2. Prohibition of taxation without representation is another basic constitutional value.
Put the two together and you have no question why eliminating the tax exemption would basically make a new country with a new set of values.
It is amazing that all you Benei Torah who have the advantage of a good jewish education can’t analyze a simple issue.
He wants to talk about tax exemptions; bring it on. But do your homework.
Even after the Tartikof transaction the Roman Catholic Archdioces has more tax exempt property in Rockland County than all this Jewish exempt property combined. There are other religious organizatios that also have large holdings.
There is nothing wrong with the tax exemptions.
There is a problem with reporting half the story to cause trouble. That’s hateful. And, when it’s hateful of Jews we call that anti-semitism.
You want to point a finger at “Tax Exempt” status of religious organizations and members of the clergy?!
Start with Yosef HA’TZADIK! He was the first one to implenent a system of Parsonage for the Eygptian priesthood as “payment” for finding him not guilty in the ma’sah of Ayshes Potifar. Of course he also did it so Shevet Laivy would not have to be part of the shi’bud.
Please DON’T call this guy! All we need is harrassment charges to be filed even if it’s only in the press. Let it go…it’s 1 dumb goy with a problem which unfortunately does have some validity to it. Some times it’s better to leave things alone…this is one of those times.
This makes me a smart self-preservationist, not a self-hating Jew. And as a victim of true anti-semitism in many different forms, I honestly don’t see anti-semitism in this, just stupidity & a poor attempt at sarcasm.
unfortunately, we yell anti- semite when things are being said about us. the really unfortunate thing is that it is true about the tax exempt especially about Tartikov. I am a frum yid and as one of your comments said, if you make yourself a target you are. I am ashamed of some of this and it is a real chillul.
Yes, we ARE in Golus and too many abuse the property tax exemption to avoid paying property taxes on their private homes.
Dina Malchusa, yes, but is your house REALLY a public building? Is it REALLY open for public use and worship at regular hours each day?
Not from what I have seen and if the answer is no, your home is not open for public use during regular hours each week, then you are stealing.
I think the rules for tax exempt should be that if you have a shul , synogoue or church etc, it should be only just for that. No Rabbis or family members living in them. Most of these taxed exempt shuls have Rabbis and or thier children living in them and in some cases even rent out part of the house to total strangers that have nothing to do with that shul.
Why is it any different from what BMG in Lakewood does, buying up houses and renting them (so to speak) to avreichim, all tax free?
If you draw a target on your back, don’t complain when you get hit.
Sure the anti-semite is goingt to hate us whatever we do, but why make it so easy for him?
Also, if we would just remember that we are in golus, which means we are not at home, maybe we wouldn’t be setting ourselves up so much.
Give him a call…
Edward Kobus
25 Ravenna Dr
Pomona, NY 10970-3607
(845)362-6743
Anonymous said…
I guess it could be considered antisemetic if it wouldn’t be pretty much true.
IF YOU READ WHAT HITLER AND MEIN KAMF WROTE; THEY WERE CORRECT ABOUT MANY THINGS THEY SAID ABOUT THE JEWS. BUT SAYING THAT WAS STILL ANTI-SEMETIC!
THE PROBLEM WITH THE KKK WAS, THAT THEY PRETTY MUCH SAID THE TRUTH ABOUT THE BLACKS..
Liz said…
Why do religious groups have a property tax exemption, anyway? They shouldn’t.
YOU ARE A SELF HATING JEW! WHY SHOULD ALL THE OTHER RELIGIOUS GROUPS IN THE US ENJOY THAT BENEFIT? THIS IS THE LAW OF THIS LAND!
YSV, ASHAR, ETC. ALSO DON’T PAY ANY TAXES. YOU JUST HATE THE CHASSIDISH GROUPS! ADMIT IT!
You got to admit, this is funny because it’s true.
You people don’t get it.
This is so anti-semtic that it reeks from POISON
I think you should start a campaign to get this writer off the rolls of the Journal News. TO BE FIRED AT ONCE!! for attacking the WHOLE JEWISH COMMUNITY!!
Why do religious groups have a property tax exemption, anyway? They shouldn’t. If the tax exemption were eliminated, that would right a lot of wrongs.
I guess it could be considered antisemetic if it wouldn’t be pretty much true.
This kind of shtick is unfortunately rampant & this fellow is just venting. Many of us frum yidden agree with his point.
Comment – Show Original Post
Veganovich said…
A lot of people do declare their property as having a religious purpose, and have it held in the name of religious institution to save on property taxes. That costs more for the other taxpayers. It is not anti-Semitic for someone to point this out.
I don’t know where you comw from but in pointing a finger on a whole community “bloc of voters” wake up and smell the coffee if u r jewish on the other hand if u r not Jewish then I would put u in the same anti-Semitic box as the letter writer..
A lot of people do declare their property as having a religious purpose, and have it held in the name of religious institution to save on property taxes. That costs more for the other taxpayers. It is not anti-Semitic for someone to point this out.