Pinned Topic Feb. 12 2008
Kiryas Joel, NY – The questions came spontaneously, Are arranged marriages between Hasidic couples happy ones?
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Do the Hasidim allow their children to explore philosophical doctrines or cultures other than those taught to them by their community?
Do Hasidic residents think about global warming, or any other consequences of their explosive population growth? The answers came just as honestly.
Yes, Hasidic marriages are happy for the most part, though there are rare instances of divorce, said Rachel Freier.
And, no, Hasidim do not think about global warming. The zeal with which they pursue their family life does not allow the luxury of planning, she told the audience of about two dozen people from the secular community gathered Sunday at Eitz Chaim Synagogue on Orange Turnpike.
Freier spoke of her background: wife and mother of eight children, Brooklyn native, lawyer. She is an anomaly in both the Hasidic and secular world: a professional Hasidic woman willing to reach out to non-Hasidim about her religion and culture.
Some Hasidim might act pushy or arrogant, but they do not define the culture, she told a man who complained of Hasidic developers and bungalow owners who ignored laws in his Sullivan County town
“I hear what you’re saying, and it hurts me, because I know you’re right,” she said of some unscrupulous men. “They’re giving the impression that this is the way all Hasids are, and it’s not.” [record]
I too am puzzled that she should go to KJ dressed like that. In KJ the women wear mostly a “shpitz & teechel”, or a very short, “sheitel-looking sheitel” covered by a hat. Never such a long sheitel..
The idea is that if the woman is going to wear a sheital instead of a teechel or shpits & teechel, the sheitel should look like a sheitel, and never, chas v’sholoim like the woman’s own hair.
It is kind of inappropriate for her to go to KJ in that long sheitel. And, that hat does not help. (smile)
February 13, 2008 4:25 PM
Why would her husband allow her to work in Monroe the way she dresses?
People in Monroe DO NOT WEAR long sheitels. THEY WEAR SHORT SHEITELS AND A HAT ON TOP.
Even if she doesn’t actually live there, SHE SHOULD HAVE RESPECT FOR THE COMMUNITY MEMBERS THAT ACTUALLY LIVE THERE & DRESS ACCORDINGLY.
This shows disrespect on her part.
I keep reading stuff here that shows so much hatred of one Yid for another. It is disheartening.
Here is a wonderful story of a Chassidishe woman, a Heimishe woman who is successful, and getting good press, which is a good thing, and instead of being happy for her, I read stuff of hatred?!
First of all, she is NOT Chabad, so how does this entire Chabad issue come in. Every time there is something good in the news, some chabadnik seems to jump in and try to take the credit. It makes me not believe any of the things they claim.
Yes, she is atypical of Chassidishe women, but not bad.
Yes, there are some marital problems, and divorces among Chassiside marriages, but if you look at the stats it is much less than in the secular or non-Chassidish Jewish world.
And for those doubters among you, go visit KJ and walk around. Better have your wives walk around and talk to the women. You will be shocked to find happy women in happy families, with marriages to men to take good care of them and their families.
I was there 2 years ago with my wife. She spoke to a bunch of very friendly women, who were all helpful, smiling people who were obviously HAPPY!
Now about Chabad, I am NOT one of them, but I daven at Chabad here where I live because I like the Rov here. So, I have knowledge of Chabad both from the inside while not being a Chabad person myself.
I am a Chassidishe man originally from Willy, who wears a streimel, and vaaser zokin, who though is as far from being a Chabad person as possible, davens at chabad, and is close friends to a bunch of Chabad shluchim.
I will say, they are NOT mainstream Chassidim at all. They do dress and speak like the Litvisher crowd, but, though there are exceptions, thank G-d, most can’t learn like the Litvisher crowd.
They do spend way way way too much time learning their “Rebbe’s” sichos and maamarim, instead of learning regular Torah: Gemara, Rashi, Tosphos, Maharsha, Maharam, Rif, Ran, etc.,
They do learn halacha, but focus much too closely to the Shulchan Aruch Harav, which is their “Alter Rebbe’s Shulchan Aruch. And, though it is a fine Shulchan Aruch that we all respect, it is “orphaned” in the world of halacha, as being untouched in the hundreds of years since it authorship.
Most other Chassidim, learn the “regular” Shulchan Aruch, the Tur & Beis Yosef, and also the Shulchan Aruch Harav. But, most importantly, we learn the Shailos and Teshuvos of the Gedolim and Poskim of this dor and the last couple of doros, so we are aware of halacha TODAY. We also pay attention to what today’s poskim have to say.
The vast majority of Chabad Chassidim are unaware of the psaks from today’s poskim. They tend to hold that if they are not Chabad rabbonim, they do not have to listen to them, let alone learn them. They do not realize that both in the Litvish/Yeshivish world, as well as the Mainstream Chassidish world we do pay attention to ALL of each other’s poskim, and give them all respect.
While the rest of the Chassidim, and the Yeshivish world tolerates Chabad, just asks them to keep their agendas out of our Kehillas, we do not call them names.
Chabad tends to call everyone but themselves “SNAGS” which is their equivalent of the “N” word meaning miSNAGdim.
Funny, when they meet a fellow Yid whom they respect, they can’t seem to admit he is not Chabad.
Some in my shul, keep telling me I am Chabad, but just don’t realize it yet. I laugh, because I know how wrong they are.
Also, Chabad does have the widest “Kiruv” organization, bar none.
But, they do not have the lock on being nice to people. In fact, when they are not out on mivtzaim, or doing their kiruv, many are not as nice and friendly as they should be. Some tend to be very arrogant.
To Most of them, kiruv means converting a Jew to Chabad. If you simply do not want that, you are misguided in their eyes.
They verbally will say the above is not true, but their actions prove it again and again.
Here, in this story is a Mainstream, Chassidish woman, I don’t care, Bobov, Satmar, whatever, but she has accomplished a lot of good, and with a supportive husband.
Let’s give HER the credit, not try to take it away from her.
True, her way is not the “norm” in most Chassidishe families. This is because we realize that that kind of fraternization is fret with pitfalls and temptations, and not in keeping with the derech of tznius. But, even the Chassidishe Rebbetzens have run large organizations.
In KJ itself, (as well as many in Willi) there are people who hold it is best for a woman not to drive. And many of them don’t. Their husband take them everywhere and pick them up. This is not crazy, there were gedolim who said women should not drive. The Chazon Ish said this around 1950, about 3 or 4 years before his histalkus.
There are others who do drive. They are equally loved and respected.
There are some who go to schools and learn a trade. That is okay too.
Sure, we frown on regular college, since many of the required courses teach apikorsus and other things contrary to our beliefs. (Philosophy, Biology, Physics, Cosmology, Psychology, etc.,)
But, if one can find a way to navigate that mess, and graduate without foundering in the stormy sea, going on to Law School is safe. That is a rather one-sided, single topic program of study with no more pitfalls.
We need all to have more understanding and tolerance for each other.
That means not making fun of Chabad, and Chabad not assuming everything good is theirs.
It means not assuming false and foolish stereotypes, like thinking all arranged marriages are unhappy, and the women are “stuck” in them. That is totally untrue.
Remember, though Chabad may have the most extensive “outreach” programs, the other Chassidim have the best and most extensive “Inreach” programs. Both are needed. Both are good.
Don’t judge any group by its exceptions, and don’t put down a good exception.
I am a little confused. I was under the impression that a “Hasidic” women does not speak infront of a mixed group. Men and Women. If she represents the “Hasidic” women then how can she do what she is doing? Either she is not the real real “Hasidic Women” or maybe there is a new kind of “Hasidic Women” in the making. I am not revering to her being a Lawyer. I understand that as a Lawyer, she can perhaps help “Hasidic” women more then some men can, because they are not used to speaking to strange men and would find her very helpful. But being the model of “The Hasidic Women” not so sure about that.
To all of you out there, I know the Freier Family very well, they are relatives of mine, they are Bobover Chasidim and her husband David Freier is a real special person and is a very big Talmid Chachum and does not need his wifes money to support the family, he is very well off.they are a wonderful family and to you Ruchie I say”Chazk Vamatz” and I wish you the best of luck…
thank you ruchi! some of us who work in Kiruv have to deal with the same questions about pushiness etc. from other Jews. besides, being a lawyer can keep a husband in learning so why not?
Anonymous said…
Anonymous I’m Not Chassidish but said…
I find the undertone of glee at the pleasure by some at the less-than-perfect success rate of marriages amongst chassidim to pitifully petty and neeedlessly nasty. Not to mention foolish, childish, immature, vindictive, hateful………
weather you are chasidish or not dosent matter your comment is definitly all that you said “pitifully petty and neeedlessly nasty. Not to mention foolish, childish, immature, vindictive, hateful………” you are just name calling and it sounds like the truth hurts you.
February 13, 2008 11:53 AM
The only truth that is bothering me is the truth that too many people seem to be getting their thrills by highlighting the problems in someone else’s lifestyle.
We would all be much better off identifying the faults in our own lifestyles. After all, it is our own actions for which we will be held most responsible.
I am sure that each of us could stand some improvment in how we conduct our homes and marriages, even those of us who find fault with Satmar marriages and can tell you all the dirt on every chassidish divorce, how manythere are, how many would like to be divorced, how many stay together for the kids, for social reasons for the goldfish, etc.
Milhouse 9:19PM (either a [direct] quote or paraphrase). …besides, all the Rebbe’s Sichos are in Yiddish… What does that prove?!
that the Rebbe spoke (or speaks, according to some) Yiddish! Other than that, the standard, everyday language is not Yiddish. Which makes no difference, anyway!
Anon. 7:29AM. Because some people have a CHABAD [de]-fault, like other groups and individuals have other defaults. That means, every topic being discussed will revolve around their favorite nostalgia. For example, there’s a [hypocritic] (here we go again) columnist who can’t write one and a half pararaphs without reverting to his favorite [nostalgic] default.
Millhouse
I admire your honesty.Yes, unfortunately very few younger women and girls in Lubavitch speak yiddish.Few young bochurem and yungerlait too.
Everyone who went through the Bobov school system speaks fluent yiddish, boys and girls.
While it is important to speak a Jewish language it is not the only measuring rod of yiddishkait.
Anonymous I’m Not Chassidish but said…
I find the undertone of glee at the pleasure by some at the less-than-perfect success rate of marriages amongst chassidim to pitifully petty and neeedlessly nasty. Not to mention foolish, childish, immature, vindictive, hateful………
weather you are chasidish or not dosent matter your comment is definitly all that you said “pitifully petty and neeedlessly nasty. Not to mention foolish, childish, immature, vindictive, hateful………” you are just name calling and it sounds like the truth hurts you.
I find the undertone of glee at the pleasure by some at the less-than-perfect success rate of marriages amongst chassidim to pitifully petty and neeedlessly nasty. Not to mention foolish, childish, immature, vindictive, hateful………
Why does every topic have to come down to Chabad, chabad, chabad?
lawyers are dying to be in monroe plenty of bussiness
There are plenty of divorces in arranged marriages.
I love this arguing over yiddish in Chabad. Go to Bnei Brak, and 90% of the gerrer chassidic children don’t know yiddish. When the Gerrer Rebbe does a tish Torah, a translator repeats it in ivrit afterwards for his chassidim. 3rd generation bobover chassidim in BP barely speak yiddish. Sorry, but yiddish is in trouble in many quarters.
Have you ever heard a satmar speak yiddish? they say english words with a yiddish twang. more english in their yiddish than a proper yiddish.
All of the Rebbe’s sichos are written in Yiddish.
There were some in Yiddish but many in Loshon Kodesh. And other writing is almost all in Loshon Kodesh. The spoken sichos were of course all in Yiddish (except a very few in Russian).
All Chabad Yeshivas and girls schools teach in Yiddish
This is definitely not true. Some do, but most don’t. And there are many Lubavitchers for whom Yiddish isn’t even a mamme loshn, since their great-grandparents in North Africa or Teman never spoke it. Still, anyone who becomes a serious Lubavitcher eventually picks up at least some Yiddish.
To Jonah:
Your ignorance regarding Chabad is amazing. All of the Rebbe’s sichos are written in Yiddish. All of his Farbrengens were given over in Yiddish. All Chabad Yeshivas and girls schools teach in Yiddish.
Please get your facts straight before you shoot your mouth off.
It makes you look very foolish when you don’t.
Is this Ruchie from Satmar? Why is she speaking in KJ? It’s fine she’s speaking in KJ I just don’t know why. She shouldn’t try to explain all Chassidim are like Chabadniks to a group of secular Jews outside of KJ! Chabad and Satmar are polar opposites and she shouldn’t explain them as the same thing. Mainstream Chassidus isn’t like either Satmar nor Chabad, but most lean closer to Satmar in terms in interaction with the outside world. Chabad is a little too involved. How many Chabadniks are there who can’t even speak Yiddish? Our mame loshen? How many even know Yiddish!?! Compare that to Satmar! It is obvious Chabad is too involved in the outside world. But I still don’t even know who this Ruchie is or where she comes from!! We should leave her husband out of this.
I agree wholeheartedly with “Big City Actuary.” As a Chabad wife, mother, and grandmother I am also a businesswoman, & my (female) partner & I meet with representatives of Federal, City, & State government as well as those from different organizations & businesses regularly. It is quite clear we are very religious: we never shake hands with men, we don’t accept refreshments, and yet everyone treats us with the utmost respect. Perhaps that’s because we return the compliment?
Are we an anomaly? Some may think so, but speaking with authority on issues in our field, being able to discuss wider topics, and our willingness to answer questions about our lives as Frum women, make us intriguing professionals who are definitely knowledgeable, & competent. What is pleasing is that we are respected not only for our abilities and professionalism but also for the way we live our lives and our business ethics.
Rachel Freier is an excellent ambassador for Frum working women (and she dresses beautifully, too, thereby dispelling yet more myths of the “frumpy Frummie”.) Thank you for promoting the Frum professional woman so well. It’s a shame this event wasn’t better attended.
Ruchie Frier does not live in Kiryas Yoel she has her cleints there
“to big city actuary:
chabad is by no means mainstream chassidus. chabad is more litvishe than chassidishe!”
Oh, really? I feel very Chassidic.
4:08 PM yes lots of people have misrable marriages and just because you dont want to face it that dosent change the fact…
Our law firm has worked with Ruchie for many years and we think she is a good lawyer and obviously trying to make this a better world between Jews. What could be better?
Fay Taub Stern and Alexander Novak
Novak, Juhase & Stern, Esqs.
to anonymous10:58 KOL KEVUDA BAS MELECH PNIMA:
The way you spell, I highly doubt it……
I always wondered why people put such stereotypes on Chassidishe relationships between husbands and wives. Many of the guys out there are truly erlich, and that requires living with REAL yiras shomayim, ahavas yisroel, derech eretz and the like. Those guys have beautiful marriages, they respect their wives, and treat them like princesses. Why are people so pessimistic about the relationships between chasidim, because those that have issues work on them? Because divorce is a terrible thing to do to children,, and people feel responsible? Really now!
I dont live in a world of rose colored glasses, I used to be a divorcee that got approached by the bums, and garbage of BP and Willy, when they thought I would be an easy lay for them. I know what the world is about,, BUT I REFUSE TO BELIEVE THAT THAT IS MAINSTREAM! I believe that Yidden are good. The squeaky wheel gets attention.
And Ruchy obviously has a husband who respects and admires her, and wants her to be happy. You garbage that call urselves men, can learn from her husband,, instead of criticize that he did something good for this world, his life, and their relationship. I dont believe that she answered the questions the way that someone experienced in kiruv would have answered. But can u find me many other guys or any other guys in that neighborhood who could have done a better job?? Who has the right to criticize, I would like to understand?
Anonymous said…
kol kevuda bas melech penimah
what is so amazing ? if she is chasidish what is she doing promoting herself that she is with it.
Most likely her husbands salary dosent compensate for her standard of living.
February 12, 2008 10:58 AM
———————————
MOst likly you are very jelous of her career, her fame and her salary.
Go get a job which doesnt require you to leech of your inlaws and the local pushka.!!
3:54 p.m.
It sounds like your’e stuck in a miserable marriage. Since misery likes company you’re including all chassidishe marriages in your company.
Your marriage is the exception. Not the rule.
Of course Divorce is extremely rare in Hasidic circles…They’re just forced to stay married whether they’re miserable and/or abused or not.
Jonah said…
to big city actuary:
chabad is by no means mainstream chassidus. chabad is more litvishe than chassidishe!
February 12, 2008 11:15 AM
HEY!!! DON’T GO BLAMING THEM ON US!
I happen to know her and her husband. David is one of the loveliest guys around. A real ehrliche chassidishe fellow. Mammesh a Tzaddik. She, I was never able to figure out, and even moe so now. Now that I hear about her chabad side, it all starts adding up. Maybe she is a credit to ?? from a non chasidishe perspective, but from a purely chasidishe perspective, a mother of eight, or any woman for that matter, should not be in the public eye like that. And besides, where did she get her qualifications to speak for chasishkeit? Just because she can fill out some forms for the grammar school dropouts in KJ doesn’t make her an expert on chasidus and chasidim. Besides, she is a terrible example to chasidishe women altogether. Please don’t give so much credit where credit is not due.
I wish her good luck in her career however she didnt really give any satisfying answers at least for the three questions raised in this article.
About marriages just because there is a low divorce rate dosent make the marriage happy lots of people choose to stay in their marriage for kids, family pressure or other reasons.
Do the Hasidim allow their children to explore philosophical doctrines or cultures other than those taught to them by their community?
She didnt answer that question at all.
About global warming. We dont think ahead well if there is global warming then we should think ahead and if we don’t believe in global warming then she should make that clear, actually our whole life is based on thinking ahead for how hashem will judge us.
I wish her all the best in her career. Regardless it is good news out of KJ for a change.
To the one that wrote
Rachel is amazing for the wonderful work she is doing. Now get off the internet and go to work so your wife doesn’t have to
February 12, 2008 11:09 AM
My wife dosent work nor does she need to and I make a salary that your wife or husband would envy.
I think she would look much better if she switched the hat she has in her hand with the one she has on her head!
GREAT P.R move
CHABAD – Always duplicated but never replicated. Keep up the great work!
Chabad is like Esther Hamalka….everyone wants to claim us as their own 🙂
to big city actuary:
chabad is by no means mainstream chassidus. chabad is more litvishe than chassidishe!
vus felt es ois??
they still hate the chasiddim no matter what!!
dont wash your diapers in public,
it wont help anyway
SHHHHHH TOP Secret! Ruchy has family that is Chabad!! Hahahaha,,, On a serious note, as someone who knew Ruchy when she was working as a paralegal, and being a close friend of one her Chabad cousins, I am so happy for you! I always liked you, and we used to chat at your cousins’ simches. You always looked as pretty on the outside as you are on the inside, and I am happy that you have the courage to do the beautiful things, and the wonderful things you do!
Chazak Ve’ematz!
Your Aunt Rivky’s oldest daughters friend,,,,,
to anonymous10:58 KOL KEVUDA BAS MELECH PNIMA:
Rachel is amazing for the wonderful work she is doing. Now get off the internet and go to work so your wife doesn’t have to
This kind of outreach is long overdue! Frum yidden, but especially chassidim are grossly misunderstood by the velt. May Rachel have much hatzlochoh in this endeavor, and in all areas of her life!
“She is an anomaly in both the Hasidic and secular world: a professional Hasidic woman willing to reach out to non-Hasidim about her religion and culture.”
This is not an anomaly in the world of Chabad.
kol kevuda bas melech penimah
what is so amazing ? if she is chasidish what is she doing promoting herself that she is with it.
Most likely her husbands salary dosent compensate for her standard of living.
Wow…surprised noone called her a “shiksa” for going out into the world!! Ahh, but all we need to do is wait for someone to find fault.
a mega kidush hashem!!
kiryas yoel way to go!
Forget Hillary.
VOTE RACHEL FRIER!!!
I think that what she is doing is beautiful work. I forsee her to be a future star in Kiruv, as she is Hiemish, Frum and in the same time a profesional and succsesful lawyer.
We all want to wish her Mazel Tov upon the recent Shidduch she did with her son, who is one of the Metziyunim from yeshivaas Kartchien, may she see lots of Nachas from him and all of her family.
Go Ruchie! Kol hakavod, making us all proud. What an inspiration.