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Rabbi Elazar Teitz, head of Elizabeth’s Orthodox community, and Esther Macner, a New York divorce and family lawyer, spoke Feb. 9 at the Orthodox Forum of Edison and Highland Park at Congregation Ahavas Achim.
The two described how a significant number of women remain agunot, or “chained” wives, unable to remarry because their husbands have refused to grant them a get, a decree of Jewish divorce. In Jewish law, only a husband can grant a get.
According to Teitz, in most instances the husband is simply holding out for revenge or to force a better deal in the distribution of property and assets.
The problem, he said, is compounded by differing practices of rabbinic courts, or batei din. Other batei din are simply unscrupulous, he added.
“Just because the rabbonim have long beards equal to the length of a women’s skirt doesn’t mean they’re ethical,” said Teitz.
Teitz voiced sympathy for women who have sacrificed their financial independence to take care of their home and children and then are backed into a corner by greedy husbands and the courts.
“Many rabbonim are old school and have trouble with the fact there are two genders in the human race and one of them is female,” said Teitz, dean of the Jewish Educational Center’s Rav Teitz Mesivta Academy. “This is the way they were brought up and the way in which they see the world.” [njjn]
To all of you, for or against the issue at hand. Not questioning his IQ score, his wisdom, nor knowledge.For a Rav a Posak to use this expression “Beards v Skirts constatutes a lack of yiras shomyim Which is imperitive for moreh horoah to have seyata dishmaya. If he degraded himself by using such an expression, people have a right to pounce on him. We dont have to hold him at a higher esteem than he holds himself in………
how comes teitz nor anyone else speaks about women who abuse their husbands or abuse the system! is it always the mans fault! i know of a case where a woman who is fighting her first ex-husbands in the courts, 8years AFTER THE GET against their divorce settlement which stipulated that they were going only to BAIS DIN, now she decides to divorce her 2nd husband. so she once again goes to the courts! and no rabbis sre speaking against her. to all you readers she is a MOSERES in all regards and if the rabbis are not stopping her then I’m saddened to inform you that her YU rabbis have only one agenda, and that is GET GET GET GET ….a one track mind….a broken record player!!!
Foar all you guys yeeling that he is trying to replace ‘old’ torah with a ‘new’ torah – if you would have done a little checking on the ‘net (which I know none of you could have done because REALLY frum people don’t use the internet) you woul have seen that the final quote from Rabbi Teitz was his response to a crying agunah “unfortunetly not every problem has a halachic solution”.
Does that sound to you like someone who wants to re-write shulchan aruch???
Anonymous said…
just because rabbi teitz presents himself like a real caring respectful rabbi dosent mean that he is real,my personal experience with him was very different,i went with him with a friend who refused to give a get because his wife wouldntallow him to see his daughter,he promised my friend he will make sure that after he gives a get he will make sure that he can see his daughter,after he gave a get rabbi teitz changed int an obnoxious and nasty person,and my friend had towait until his daughter became 18 to speak to her
February 21, 2008 3:12 PM
Well, that is certainly a convincing (and poorly punctuated) one side of a story and coming from an anonymous poster to a popular jewish blog should certainly be enough to ruin the reputation of a man who has spent his adult life involved in learning and askanus b’tzorchai tzibur.
just because rabbi teitz presents himself like a real caring respectful rabbi dosent mean that he is real,my personal experience with him was very different,i went with him with a friend who refused to give a get because his wife wouldntallow him to see his daughter,he promised my friend he will make sure that after he gives a get he will make sure that he can see his daughter,after he gave a get rabbi teitz changed int an obnoxious and nasty person,and my friend had towait until his daughter became 18 to speak to her
Keep shooting at the messenger.
Maybe no one will notice that you have no answer to his message.
What a bunch of losers, crying about husbands who get beat up by their wives.
Frankly, if a man doesn’t have enough male hormones to stop his wife from beating him up he is probably one of those mishkavzachorniks who can only stay ‘married’ by keeping his wife a prisoner.
Believe me, if my wife ever abused me she wouldn’t have to ask for a ‘get’. Her walking papers would be ready and waiting before she could pack her handbag so I’d be free to find a woman who appreciates such a good husband that all these mishkavzachorniks claim they were when their crazy wife woke up one day and decided she wants out. Not to say it NEVER happens that a woman goes thru some weird change and wants out but when that happens she is more likely not to care 2 cents if she received a Get because she doesn’t care anymore about halachah and being an aishes ish running around in the clubs (where her husband probably spent most of July and August all the years they were married).
Go ahead, find something nasty to write about me too. It will just mean that I am also delivering a message you do not want to hear.
What I find fascinating, is how many people can turn around what a man is saying, to show just what subzero iq’s they have. Here is a man who is trying to help fix a problem, Kabdeyhu v’chashdeyhu, he is speaking to a particular crowd, they do not wear shpitzlach or tichlach, and he is talking their language. He did not say halacha is old school, rather he said that some botei din need to learn to respect the rights of women. How many of you anonymous posters have had gittin, or the experience of one? Hashem should spare u and your families the pain, and the tragedy of a divorce. But if u dont know what he is talking about, JUST BE QUIET!
I personally saw girls that were erlich go off the derech after their gittin, because of the way they were treated, so bad enough they were married to animonsters, they also got mistreated in the beis din cuz they are women. You who judge, (I am sure u will judge and misconstrue my post as well.) should just realize that things are never so simple. I was lucky, I did not have any kids,, my ex took my furniture, all my silver, and all my stuff in the house,, but I got my get. That is not fair. But I have to consider myself from the lucky ones,,, because I am not an agunah,, BH, and I remarried a wonderful mentch. So here comes a rov, who wants to help out,,,,,,, and YOU DRERDLIGGER JUDGES have the chutzpah to speak the way you do about him? WATCH YOUR MOUTHS,, it could be your sisters in this situation one day,, NO ONE IS IMMUNE to corrupt rabbonim these days. HASHEM,,,, HELP!
I don’t see the “rabbi” complaining about women who kidnap their husband’s kids or steal their husband’s assets to obtain a better settlement!
To …………”I don’t see enough comments here defending the so called Rabbis who never bother to do anything about Agunos. One rabbi says something little bit harshly and you all go nuts!”
HE DID NOTHING FOR AGUNOS WITH THIS SPEECH EXCEPT TO BASH THE OLD SCHOOL RABBONIM.
WHAT NEW SOLUTION DOES HE HAVE? NOT TO USE BOTEI DIN ONLY RABBI TIETZ? AND THEN WHAT? ALL TALK!
I GUESS IF THERE WAS AN EASY WAY TO FORCE A GET WITHOUT BREAKING THE LAW OR HALACHA EVERY BEIS DIN WOULD BE DOING IT.
NE DID NOTHING EXCEPT BASH THE OTHER RABBONIM THAT ARE NOT AS “HONEST” AS HE IS. WOW IM SUPPOSED TO BE IMPRESSED.
FOR TIETZ IS AN HONORABLE MAN!…
…..Another stupid comment. And who cares about “acceptance”?
Obviously your esteemed rabbi does.
He was trying sooo hard to make that group happy that it is pathetic.
Sure, with statements like “sympathy for women who have sacrificed their financial independence to take care of their home and children”. Is having a normal Torah home were the husband is mchuyav to bring in the parnassa and the woman does not join the workforce “sacrifice”that warrants sympathy?
Only in the new School of torah.
There has not been any response to the wild statement that “Many rabbonim are old school and have trouble with the fact there are two genders in the human race and one of them is female,”
That does not say anything about crooked Dayonim but does say that the poor rabbi must be a gender expert.
I don’t see enough comments here defending the so called Rabbis who never bother to do anything about Agunos. One rabbi says something little bit harshly and you all go nuts!
He is not accepted by the Torah Velt so he seeks acceptance wherever he can find it. The more he gets recognition by them the more he seeks their adoration.
_______________________________
Another stupid comment. And who cares about “acceptance”? In this world it’s about doing the RIGHT THING. I know most of you have a problem with that concept and care more about perception and political correctness than doing what is right.
From what I understand, after 120 years go-d does not interview us and say well we did very well on earth and you were a tzadik and tried to make a difference in the world below but let me check your record……
And go-d continues….Wait a minute…after reading some blogs on vos iz neias it seems that peopel claim your not “accepted” in the “torah world”….
not “accepted” by some people on vos iz neias so you must go to hell for a few years…….
This is how idiotic some of you sound.
Teitz is sensitive about beards, excessive and misplaced frumkeit etc. He is also a hot head. His father used to give Hashgocha on non Glatt Meat and obviously did not endear himself to certain sectors by doing so. So the son probably harbors resentment because of that. He once yelled at me that I and the circles I travel in are more concerned about glatt meat than glatt money even though he hardly knows me and even though he was falsely accusing me of that.
I happen to be scrupulous with money. He is indeed a great Talmid Chochom but with a temper that is not nice. Woe to the one on the receiving end.
Some of the commenters here are quite ignorant. They think that anyone who can speak English properly and doesn’t live in Brooklyn is a YU’nik, whatever that means.
Actually, he learned in Telshe and Ponovezh.
Also, problems with botei din are not only in inyonei gittin. There are also problems with dinei mamonos, etc.
May Hakodosh boruch Hu bless the people/dayonim that are yirei Elokim, anshei Emes and sonei botza.
Does anyone here have a life? As I read post after post I just have a feeling distgust. How dare any Jew bash a Rav that they do not even know anything about? Just becasue he does not live in Brooklyn or Lakewood doe not make him any less of a highly respected Rav. If everyone would just start working on themselves and worrying about the way they talk (or write), and stop criticizing every word that Rav Teitz said, and just stick to the issue, there just might be informative, well written posts.
It seems to me that this is all about he said she said . why cant we get the actual transcrpt of his speech. untill lets all stop hyperventilating.
Has anyone asked him why he used that term?
….When did complaining about crooked dayanim become apikorsus??
Never.
But thats not what he said or complained about.
He stated “Many rabbonim are old school and have trouble with the fact there are two genders in the human race and one of them is female,” That does not say anything about crooked Dayonim to me, or to anyone else.
Anonymous said…
IS this about old school Rabbonim or new school Dayonim, or Maybe its about modern day Apikorsim?
February 20, 2008 2:59 PM
When did complaining about crooked dayanim become apikorsus??
I must have been out sick that day.
I SAY,
What he meant to say is not what he said, and he said what should not be said. Now he says that what he said is really not what was proper to say and he could not have said what was said and its untrue waht is said about him. So please understand that anything he says should be viewed as how you would want him to say but not as actually written or said.You see he said that as a student of Ponoviz he cannot be accused of saying what he actually said so he has the right to change the reality of what was printed and said. Enough said!
Anonymous said…
Is he claiming that he Beis Dinim are not following Halacha? That did not seem to be the thrust of the speech.
He is a KAL, a modern orthodox rabbi who thinks the only up to date Beis Din is his own.
Conservative jews feel the same way about the old fashion Rabbis.
February 20, 2008 10:04 AM
=================================
and the chaddishe rabonim feel thiers is it and the yeshivish feel they are it and the yekkes feel that they are it. Bottom line . No one is telling you what to do. Pick your own Rabbi and stick to him and dont go around rabbi shopping.
kant we all just get a lawn?
O.J.
IS this about old school Rabbonim or new school Dayonim, or Maybe its about modern day Apikorsim?
Anonymous said…
If he ever was part of the Torah Velt he has been out of it way too long.
His comments are inexcusable and his self serving posts about being old school or new school are just not going to cover for it.
February 20, 2008 2:54 PM
—————————
Ponevich is no longer part of the Torah Velt???
If he ever was part of the Torah Velt he has been out of it way too long.
His comments are inexcusable and his self serving posts about being old school or new school are just not going to cover for it.
Big City Actuary said…
“We have all heard about men who refused to give a Get. How many times have you heard of a woman refusing one?”
Technically, a man *can* divorce his wife w/o her consent. while the practice was proscribed by cherem d’rabeinu gershom, there may be loopholes to be exploited (‘heter d’meah rabbinim’ etc.)
February 20, 2008 2:52 PM
Exploited would be the perfect word in the vast majority of these cases.
“We have all heard about men who refused to give a Get. How many times have you heard of a woman refusing one?”
Technically, a man *can* divorce his wife w/o her consent. while the practice was proscribed by cherem d’rabeinu gershom, there may be loopholes to be exploited (‘heter d’meah rabbinim’ etc.)
Judging by the number of very nasty and obviously angry posts I am more and more convinced of something I heard years ago. That is, most of the guys who are withholding a Get are doing do because they were having ‘problems’ in their personal life and blamed their wives. Most of them are just closeted mishkavzachorniks and by staying ‘married’ they get revenge on a wife who knows the truth about them, keeps the wife from ‘outing’ them with the threat that if he is outed he will have to leave the frum velt and will never have any reason to write a Get one day and they avoid the problem of being pushed to start looking for a shidduch again because he is still ‘married’.
What a bunch of losers. they can’t keep a wife happy so they keep her prisoner instead.
Anonymous said…
Years ago, when “rabbis” made comments about others’ beards and called them “old school” they were referred to as either Maskilim or Reformers. It’s the “new school” of thought that that gives these traitors and frauds respect!
February 20, 2008 2:25 PM
You guys just don’t get it. Rabbi Teitz is ‘old school’. He grew up in a time and place where there was one rav in town and if you wanted to be a bigshot and ignore bais din and in general be a fardorbenner shvontz you didn’t get away with it for very long.
He is a talmid chachom and a real mentsch.
But once again we are dealing with the messengar instead of the message.
Years ago, when “rabbis” made comments about others’ beards and called them “old school” they were referred to as either Maskilim or Reformers. It’s the “new school” of thought that that gives these traitors and frauds respect!
I WONDER HOW MANY FRUM “MEN” INITIATE DIVORCE LAWSUITS IN THE COURT SYSTEM?
WHEN THE WOMEN START THE CASE IN SECULAR COURTS THINKING THIS WILL GET THEM MONEY AND CUSTODY THEN THEY FIND OUT THAT THEY NEED A BEIS DIN FOR THE GET THEY ARE SHOCKED THAT THE TORAH DOES NOT RESPECT THEIR EARLIER VICTORIES.
HOW ABOUT SPEAKING OUT AGAINST WOMEN (OR MEN)THAT GO TO SECULAR COURTS INSTEAD OF A (ERLICHER) BEIS DIN.
IF THE CASES WOULD START THERE MUCH OF THE ANIMOSITY AND FIGHTING WOULD BE PREVENTABLE AND THE BEIS DIN WOULD RECOGNIZE BOTH PARTIES PROPERLY.
And how many cases are there where the woman exploits the laws and has the husband imporisoned, beaten and witholds visitation of the children just to torment the husband?
In thus case let her remain an agunah till she learns her lesson!
Divorce amongst Orthodox Jews is staggering and out of control. But with that said the Chillul Hashem created in the secular courts is equally disturbing. The courts look for compromise among people who couldn’t compromise; which is the reason they are getting divorced. However once an honest man gives the GET and issues of kibud av and $ come into play rabbis become less zealous than they were initially out of fear of how they will be perceived by their olam leaving the angels in Shamayim crying. Rabbis, including Rav Teitz you need to help heal not close your eyes once you have enacted the Schtarr. The neshamas of klal Yisrael need shalom and closure to this matter.
Anonymous said…
Frankly I am surprised by R’ Teitz. as someone who has been dealing with these issues for a long time he should know that the husband is just as likely to be a ” victim” in a divorce battle as a wife. I agree that there is a problem, but the agunah problem is only one aspect of it. any erliche yid that walks the halls of the courts and witnesses the tremendous chillul hashem that takes place daily in matrimonial cases would agree that something has to be done.
February 20, 2008 12:25 PM
Apparently his considerable experience in these matters leads to believe that the problem is more often the husband rather than the wife.
We have all heard about men who refused to give a Get. How many times have you heard of a woman refusing one?
Anon 12:46,
Please learn english before you bash anyone.
Lets see where this Rabbi Teitz came from.
His father was a talmud muvhak of the great R’ Chaim Ozer so much so that in the ’60’s he convinced the russians to erect a Tzion by his rebbes kever. He was a pioneer in yiddishkeit before and after the war. Many of us do not know to what extent we owe him a yasher koach for yiddishkeit in the NY metro area today.
His son follows in his footsteps and is an ehrlicher yid. Now to the chassidishe olam he may sound like a ‘modern’ rabbi but nothing can be further from the truth! yes he has a litveshe background, (hence the long beard comment…) but he is an ohev yisroel to umteenth degree. Anyone can call him and speak to him about any matter no matter what type of yid they are. You can ask anyone who has learned with him he is a buki b’shas uposkim (the IQ score I can’t attest to but he has to be in the upper range.)
Now there are many ‘rabonim’ that should never have dealt with gitten cases. These people should be ‘outed’ by us. They do not have the expertise or the knowledge to both mediate and settle gitten. They go after money or they seem to honor money and it shmeks from lo shochad. don’t get me started on the Toanim aspect of this problem.
Lets all remember a real rabbi, R’Akiva Eiger. When once a husband didn’t want to give a get the rav lectured him and told him that the torah gave the wife ‘release’ from marrage in one of two ways……
The person refused and stormed out of his house. Legend states that he was dead within 30 feet of the house! (He tripped on the stairs down to the street.) We are not on his level but perhaps we should all strive to get there. They say that R’ Bick cries when he has to write a get. Maybe this is not true but shouldn’t we feel for both sides instead of shooting down one side over the other cause al pi din it can be bent in that/either direction? Perhaps others can add to this.
Frankly I am surprised by R’ Teitz. as someone who has been dealing with these issues for a long time he should know that the husband is just as likely to be a ” victim” in a divorce battle as a wife. I agree that there is a problem, but the agunah problem is only one aspect of it. any erliche yid that walks the halls of the courts and witnesses the tremendous chillul hashem that takes place daily in matrimonial cases would agree that something has to be done.
yudi said…
the plight of the agunos is gut wrenching. Unfortunately, these same groups that fight for the women to receive a get, disappear as soon as she received it. What about the rights of the husband? what about the many cases where the husband was abused in the marriage in all ways? what about the woman who is vindictive, and refused to go to the mikva for years? while giving the get is halacha, and MUST be adhered to,the rights of the husband must be fought for as well, and each situation should be dealt with on a case by case basis!!
February 20, 2008 11:34 AM
Another good reason there has to be a solution to the problems in the bais din system (as if there is a system to it right now).
Currently you have to’anim who know which bais din is a ‘husband’s bais din’ and which is a ‘wife’s bais din’.
Halachah plays a very small roll in many ‘botai din’.
Sadly we have adopted the American adverserial system of justice in which the side with the best lawyer wins.
Just ask OJ.
Anonymous said…
hello? where did you go to yeshiva?
“As tempting as that sounds the halachah is that a forced ‘get’ obtained without the direction of a bais din is usually not valid (as far as I know it is never valid but there may be exceptions).”
February 20, 2008 11:25 AM
Please elaborate.
Kudos to R. Teitz. A refreshing point of view from a highly respected rav, comments on this parochial blog notwithstanding. If you want to parse “old school,” I don’t think it means halacha & mesorah. I think it was referring to a way of approaching halachic dilemmas with much sensitivity or thought. Old school refers to a philosophy, ethic or approach to paskening and interpreting halacha that tends to be unduly harsh. Enough with the ad hominem attacks on this talmid chacham.
the plight of the agunos is gut wrenching. Unfortunately, these same groups that fight for the women to receive a get, disappear as soon as she received it. What about the rights of the husband? what about the many cases where the husband was abused in the marriage in all ways? what about the woman who is vindictive, and refused to go to the mikva for years? while giving the get is halacha, and MUST be adhered to,the rights of the husband must be fought for as well, and each situation should be dealt with on a case by case basis!!
hello? where did you go to yeshiva?
“As tempting as that sounds the halachah is that a forced ‘get’ obtained without the direction of a bais din is usually not valid (as far as I know it is never valid but there may be exceptions).”
HE DID SAY ““Many rabbonim are old school and have trouble with the fact there are two genders in the human race and one of them is female,”
WHAT DOES THE TWO GENDER FEMALE ISSUE MEAN? HOW IS THAT RELEVANT TO DAYANIM NOT FOLLOWING HALACHA IN THE BEIS DIN.
WHAT DOES OLD SCHOOL MEAN HOW IS THAT RELEVANT TO DAYANIM NOT FOLLOWING HALACHA IN THE BEIS DIN.
IF THE ISSUE IS THAT SOMETIMES DAYANIM ARE NOT ERLICH FINE,THAT IS NOT WHAT WAS SAID IN THE SPEECH. HOW DOES THE GENDER OR OLD SCHOOL VIEW COME IN TO IT?
RABBI TIETZ IS TRYING TO UNDUE THE DAMAGE OF HIS KFIRA USING SPIN TECHNIQUES AND RESTATING THE POSITIVE PORTIONS OF HIS POSITION. THE ARTICLE SPEAKS FOR ITSELF. OLD SCHOOL HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH ERLICH (OR IS HE SAYING THE OLD SCHOOL WAS NOT ERLICH). WHAT WAS SAID IN A PUBLIC FORUM STANDS. HE JUST NEVER THOUGHT THIS WOULD GET OUT TO THE PUBLIC AT LARGE.
Anonymous said…
I find it interesting that apparently Rabbi Tietz himself is responding to the comments (anonymously of course)
I guess he is a reader of the Vos Is Nieas News page!
February 20, 2008 10:10 AM
Very possible. He is a pretty regular reader and contributor to several email lists dealing with halachah and with Orthodox social issues.
If he is reading, HATZLOCHAH RABBAH!
There is a serious agunah problem, and any attention to it is welcome. As an askan, I have worked with many couples to help them through the get process. There are many issues that arise. Some involve bad midos of involved parties, be it the husband, the wife, or even the askanim and Rabbonim who intervene. Yes, money sometimes talks, and that is truly obscene. Other issues involve stubbornness in terms of the negotiations. Sometimes the respective parties want to hold out for more or less visitation, division of property, and numerous other issues. I suggest that everyone who wants to express opinions about the subject just read through a divorce settlement that was accepted by the secular court. The extent of detail is vast, and the process of reaching such a settlement can drag out. Sometimes it is the lawyers that want to drag things out. There could be many responsible parties to this.
Should a couple go through with the get before the other issues are settled? This is hotly debated, and one can easily understand both sides of the coin.
There are some very mean people out there. But remember, couples do not seek divorce out of love, affection, and mutual respect. The negative feelings generate a lot of active animosity.
I frown on $ payoffs to give or receive a get. Even the outsiders who suggest that are disgusting to me. However, I am personally acquainted with several cases in which cash payoffs were required as part of a financial settlement. Here’s an example: One woman was required to bring more than 100K to the beis din prior to receiving her get. Reason: She wanted to remain in the house, and had to buy out his portion of the house. That is not a get being held hostage. But the hostage situations exist, and leave me with inability to respect a whole lot of people.
disgusted said…
if we REALLY were serious, we would find a way to beat up these husbands until they agree.
February 20, 2008 10:24 AM
As tempting as that sounds the halachah is that a forced ‘get’ obtained without the direction of a bais din is usually not valid (as far as I know it is never valid but there may be exceptions).
There is a problem on the other extreme today in that there are ‘botai din’ who will do a ‘k’fiya’ when one is not in order, and this too is a product of the treatment many women get at most other ‘botai din’.
Anonymous said…
its a shame that such a well respected rav should talk like that the aguna problem has nothing with the rabonim’s beard or bekishe hat the heimishe still have that love to a fellow jew m-f if he talks about old school do u know that they are real old timers as we say @the seder MITCHILA OVDEI AVODA ZARA &we with torah r the new 1s he may talk about women that have skirts the length of HIS beard
February 20, 2008 10:19 AM
Without punctuation your psot is a little difficult to decipher but in response to what I think you meant – He did not say that the agunah problem is the product of long bearded people. He said that one cannot trust a person based upon the legnth of his beard.
His use of the term ‘old school’ was undoubtedly a poor choice or words. It is not possible that Rabbi Teitz meant it in the sense that halachah must change. Absolutly impossible. Perhaps as was suggested earlier he used the the term in the sense of ‘business as usual’ but I really do not know. If the term bothers anyone to the point that they need to farshmutz his name publicly over it I suggest he first call Rabbi Teitz and ask him what he meant by it.
You will not find one person who knows him who will believe he meant ‘old school’ in the sense that it is time for toah to change, c”v.
Anonymous said…
WHAT IS HIS REAL AGENDA AND IDEA?
WHAT HALACHA DOES HE HAVE THAT THEY (the old school)ARE NOT FOLLOWING?
OR IS HE JUST PUTTING DOWN TALMIDIE CHACHOMIM FOR THE SAKE OF MAKING HIMSELF IMPORTANT IN THE EYES OF THE WOMEN AT THE MEETING?
February 20, 2008 10:07 AM
A) if you think the botai din he attacked are following halachah you either don’t know halachah or don’t know what goes on in today’s ‘botai din’.
B) He did not attack talmidai chachomim. He attacked dayanim.
C) I don’t know his agenda or if he has one but if you really want to know why don’t you pick up a phone and call him? How expensive can a call be from Brooklyn to Elizabeth?
Anonymous said…
Is he claiming that he Beis Dinim are not following Halacha? That did not seem to be the thrust of the speech.
He is a KAL, a modern orthodox rabbi who thinks the only up to date Beis Din is his own.
Conservative jews feel the same way about the old fashion Rabbis.
February 20, 2008 10:04 AM
KAL??? Perhaps you should find out a little about the man before calling names. KAL is one thing he is not and Modern Orthodox is another (unless you have a myopic view of the world and think any Rav between Brooklyn and Lakewood going south and Brooklyn and Monsey going north is Modern Orthodox).
Pick up a phone and talk in learning to him before you decide who is ‘kal’!
Again, lets try to stick to the message instead of trying to drag the messenger through the mud.
It is very easy to be a ‘groisser k’nocker’ anonymously on the internet (btw, didn’t all the rabbonim you wouldn’t think of calling ‘kal’ forbid the use of the internet?) but much harder to be a mentsh and find out who he is and more importantly what his message is.
if we REALLY were serious, we would find a way to beat up these husbands until they agree.
its a shame that such a well respected rav should talk like that the aguna problem has nothing with the rabonim’s beard or bekishe hat the heimishe still have that love to a fellow jew m-f if he talks about old school do u know that they are real old timers as we say @the seder MITCHILA OVDEI AVODA ZARA &we with torah r the new 1s he may talk about women that have skirts the length of HIS beard