Monsey, NY – Two teenagers have been indicted by a Rockland County grand jury on robbery charges.
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It is alleged that late in the afrenoon on November 25, 2008 Austin Elkaim, 16, and Eric Schecter, 19, both of Monsey, hailed a taxi and told the driver to take them to a school on Moccasin Place in Wesley Hills.
Once the taxi arrived, the two brandished BB guns and demanded money from the victim.
The victim’s cell phone and CB radio were also stolen.
send them go to boot camp and they learn what it means to be a mentch, because the yeshiva system apparently isnt working to well.
I guess they used the money to buy kigel for toameha
Ok time to say likaf zechus…….
Shaul speaks the truth
is there something going on in sha’arei torah that should be investigated? what exactly do you mean… “he destroys them”. The reference to money here is probably superfluous. what is really going on there? Are teens being hurt? Is there anyone online who is or was there? It is imperative for people to know… if that is the case. Too many teens are being emotionally abused… or worse… in the walls of yeshivos.
this is not an issue of dan l’kaf z’chus. This can be an issue of u’Biartem Harah B’Kirbecha.
and lo Sa’amod al dam Rayecha.
If someone knows of a place where abuse is taking place, they have a CHIYUV to go to a person who is involved in these inyonim and report it.
one place to do that is the Shalom Task Force
888-883-2323
People, its time to open your eyes! This is what happens to people that are addicted to drugs, they’re willing to go to any lengths to get the money to feed their addiction.
Then comes the question: Why are addicted in the first place, what are they escaping from?
There is nothing wrong with Sharei Toarh. I send my boys there and they are b”h very happy. Unfortunately, one of their boys didn’t turn out that great and a parent/Friend is crying over sour grapes. Im sure that thre were many other issues that made this boy go off the derech. To blame it on a yeshiva is just an immature simplistic method to smooth over ones own defeciencies. Trust me, I cried over the story and still ache for those 2 boys, but perhaps some bitter medicine now will save their lives..Hashem Yerachem!!
Some kids fooling around with a bb gun. Mer hubin shoin gehert azelich.
“Hey Taxi” what a funny name for this blog post. Ha Ha. You are a panic! And I should grow up? Maybe when you’re kids are out all night toking up while you have no clue where they are like who knows how many there are, you’ll take this issue seriously. Until then, try not to stay up after midnight because you have a school bus to catch in the morning. And make sure mommy signs your homework and packs your snack.
i’m gonna guess that i’m older than both of u, & i never met Wolmark, the truth is: u NEVER get over taynos u had on hanholas hayeshiva…….
Shaul obviously has personal gripe against this “Wollmark” (I have no clue who he is & I don’t know anything about this school.) He talks a lot but hasn’t said one word of anything concrete.
As for why good kids go bad…yes, the school system IS failing our kids, but you must look at the home. Parents are quick to blame everything on a lousy Yeshiva system (which, having been involved in Chinuch for 30 years, I agree is terrible.) But where is THEIR responsibility? There are plenty of average students who stay frum, who are “good kids”, who go on to be successful, responsible parents themselves.
I met my son’s second grade Rebbe last year. He was stupid enough to ask me how *Chaim was doing, where he was, with a sneer in his voice (Chaim was diagnosed with severe learning disabilities while he was in his class.) He was astounded to hear he’s doing Smicha in a reputable Yeshiva & is talking about a professional career & looking for a Shidduch. Why was he shocked?? BECAUSE WE, AS PARENTS, TOOK RESPONSIBILITY & DID WHATEVER WAS NECESSARY TO HELP OUR SON. Of course, Chaim has zero self esteem, even after all these years, thanks to this “Rebbe” & others like him.
We saved our child & other parents need to do it too. Look at what’s going on. Talk to your kids, take them to Shul, spend time with them, & look carefully at their interests & friends. There are warning signs, but many parents ignore them…the “not my kid” syndrome. Get your heads out of the sand!
I’m sure some of these Ehrleche yidden from Monsey will say the the answer is simply for these bocuhurim to spend more hours learning and davening and that sitting in the beth midrash or kollel is iteself “community service for klal yisroel”. Thats the problem; these kids are bored and telling them to spend more hours doing whats making them bored will only exacerbate the problem.
Kol Hakovod to #11 . I hope you continue to reap much nachas from your son Chaim. I am going thru a sort of crisis with one of my sons. He actually is very bright, but has no motivation and no self-esteem, also thanks to the adults in chinuch. He had trouble with Hebrew and English kriya, and by the time it straightened out, he was left with a battered self esteem. Maybe you have some tips or ideas?
To #11 & #19 . I wish you both hatzlacha with your sons. You both sound like great parents who are doing their job.
Today parents dump their kids, both in the yeshiva world and public school world, on the schools. They expect the teachers to do their job of parenting. I’m not apologizing for teachers. Some of them should be out of chinuch or secular instruction because they are terrible. But at the end of the day, these are our children!
We have a responsibility when we create a child, along with the RSO, to pay attention to what’s going on. Unfortunately this story (and others like it) no longer shocks me. Learning in a yeshiva or coming from a frum home doesn’t matter anymore. It’s about learning something a day school rebbe drilled in my class’ heads in the 1980’s: Derech Eretz Kadma L’Torah. He used to say all the Tanach and Gemara you learn is worthless, if you do not have derech eretz.
#18 has a great point about other activities. It’s not ‘goyish’ to have something else to do when you are not in class. There is no shame in having a religious supervised version of a church or after school program. So why not have swimming, basketball, etc. for both boys and girls (separately)? Excercise is a great thing. Maybe they can work on plays so they can perform for the elderly in nursing homes? When I was in day school we used to have Purim and Chanukah plays for the elderly. You want to talk about bikur cholim? Some of these people haven’t seen their grandkids in a long time, and here comes some strangers who perform for them. How about doing what a college campus based Chabad I know does? The college women help teenagers and pre-teens bake challah for the poor and elderly. Talk about a mitvah and Torah focus.
To #20 , this is not a prank. A prank would be a pail of water being dumped on their rebbe’s head (not that I’m promoting that). This is a serious action that is armed robbery. Stop making excuses and help us fix this this problem.
Shaul, Just because you have a person gripe against rabbi Wolmark doesn’t give you the right to bad mouth him. Have you not learnt that talking Loshan Horah is a very big sin? Where were you brough up? How about slander, did you not learn about that? Maybe you are the one that should get a life and stop bad mouthing people. Before you talk bad about others, why don’t you look at yourself and see what you can do to improve yourself. Having bad feelings about others and holding grudges only further shows what kind of a person you are. Stop spreading rumors and talking bad about other people. Grow up and get a life. If you can’t get over your feelings, then perhaps you need professional help!!
Although these two boys did commit a crime please understand that this incident or crime did not just happen. These two boys are in pain that comes from way back when.
My son went to Yeshiva Spring Valley with these two boys. My son who went off the derech for about three years was tormented through 4 years of school in Yeshiva of Spring Valley. The hanhola does not care. A boy took a knife to my sons throat and Rabbi Flam Senior (may he not rest in peace because I am aware that thousands have been destroyed at his hands) threw my son up against the wall and told him he deserved it. Parents never throw your children away. Keep them as close to you as possible. I always told my son how much I love him and no matter what he’s always welcome at home. I gave him whatever he wanted. A television. I even told him he could bring his girlfriend to the house. I know this is not the norm of the “monsey velt”. You know what, it kept my son close to me and I knew what he was doing at all times. I knew when he smoke up marijuana. You know why? because he told me so. I went through three years of hell. I had my days but I always showed him how much I love him. You know what??? Guess what?? He’s in Israel for three years and doesn’t leave the bais medrash now for a minute. He is loved by everyone. A true jew. From his own heart and his own volition. Not because he was forced. No. Not because he was programmed as our Yeshivos do today. No. He is shomer torah and mitzvos because he wants to be. Parents, I implore you don’t push your children away because they aren’t doing what your neighbors want or expect. Don’t push them away because you are embarassed of them. Keep them close and they will return and that’s a guarantee. Patience and love. Yes, it’s most difficult. Believe me I had my days. In the long run it pays off. Your children will come back. It’s also time Yeshivas must get back into the business of kiruv rechokim and out of the business of richuk kerovim. The place to start is to abandon the exclusionary mindset, the notion that throwing out or rejecting a Jewish child is of minor consequence. They’re gone and the yeshiva world continues in its self-congratulatory mold, even as our losses mount. Please do not get me wrong. The Yeshivas are not responsible to raise your children but the children do spend more time in Yeshivas than they do at home. They do have a tremendous input in their lives. Most of the people in our chinuch system do not belong there and instead of throwing our children away, our future generations away let’s throw out those people ( I would not call them rebbes) who are detrimental to our childrens lives. Parents please remember keep your kids close and help them get close to you. Make their world safe so they can come to you not to the world out there to let out their feelings. Yes, Monsey needs a place like “Our Place” in Brooklyn where kids could come to and feel safe. It just needs much needed funding. Also, the organizations which you think help children are not. Project Yes. Yes what? Yes, I put more money in my pocket today. I have a friend in Brooklyn who has been trying to reach Yanky Horowitz for months for help. Never even returned a phone call. It’s not the first story. How many times has Shmuel Gluck told my son years back I’ll be there to pick you up for lunch and never showed. Parents you are on your own. Be strong.
Reply to 24
“I didn’t say money doesn’t give an advantage, it definately does. However, people with money, or shall I say people who G-d entrusted with money, usually know how to spend it and how to use it.”
Actually as to who G-d entrusts money to — I once heard B’shem a Godol
How do you know G-d hates money?
— Look who He gives it to.
I now understand what he meant
#31
Thanks, I needed that laugh.
One ungrateful idiot has a beef with Rabbi Wolmark and suddenly he’s the devil? I don’t know about his experiences, but throughout my tenure at Shaar Hatorah, I felt that R’ Wolmark was a model Rosh Yeshiva. He took real and serious interest in all of his Talmidim and made sure that all of our needs were well taken care for. I owe much of what I have acheived in my life to R’ Wolmark and I will never stand silent as someone blatantly and anonymously attacks him!
it’s easy to blame teachers isn’t it.i can’t speak for every mechanech but most of those i know personally have chosen this profession out of love and commitment.it’s certainly not for the big bucks. none of us,teachers or parents,is perfect. we do the best we can and the rest is up to Hashem.people naturally want to point and say “this is the cause of my child’s problems”.very often there isn’t a simple reason.look at the world we live in for goodness sake.
Last I checked its a free country, and walmart has a permit to sell bb guns. So dont give out your anger on them.
# 32
You may have heard it ‘b’shem a godol’;
but that gem of a saying was coined by
Dorothy Parker (1893-1967). I’ve never heard
her being referred to as an odom godol!
I learned under Rabbi Wolmark and he trully is a remarkable person. His warmth and caring for all his talmidim is unparallel. Those that wish to bad mouth him here (and worse) are obviously with anger issues and probably were one of the few rebellious jerks in yeshiva that constantly made trouble. Do not blame Harov Wolmark for your downfall. He tries and tries (most of the time succesfully) to work with everyone andhelp out all his talmidim. If you are too blind to see that, or perhaps got insulted once by his GENTLE REBUKE, then you really should get some real help, but don’t you dare try to push the blame on others I will add that he has a wonderful family and don’t try to drag them through the mud as welll. This is the sentiment felt by 99% of the people that know Rabbi Wolmark. So,while you are entitled to an opinion, let it be known that barely anyone shares your feelings.
I guess #32 heard that qute from a gadol who heard it from Dorothy Parker. Maybe while he was shopping at wallmart.
This comes from another state but robbery statutes are similar throughout the country–Armed robbery is defined as “with intent to commit theft, he or she takes property of another from the person or the immediate presence of another by use of an offensive weapon, or any replica, article or device having the appearance of such weapon.” In other words, it’s armed robbery even if it’s “just” a BB gun or even a toy gun, if the victim believes they are facing a real gun and in real danger of harm. In my state armed robbery is a felony punishable by 10-20 years in prison.
Now I’m not saying these teens deserve THAT level of punishment but do not minimize what they did as a “prank”–it was a felony and there should be consequences, real consequences.
The real challenge facing our generation is not kiruv rechokim, but kiruv kerovim. This great responsibility rests on all our shoulders, parents and teachers alike. No one can sit back and then say that their hands have not spilled the blood. #28 mentioned that a friend of theirs tried to reach Rabbi Horrowitz numerous times with no response. While I understand their frustration, please understand that he is indunated with countless calls a day, and there is a limit to what one person can humanly handle. And that’s the problem. More people need to be trained to deal with these issues, to guide parents thru the turbulent times of a child off or on the brink. And yes, while many rebbeim teach for the love of teaching, most do not have any prior experience/ and therefore it is very difficult for them to detect problems early on, and by the time the problem is full blown, they don’t have the capacity or qualifications to deal with it. And another thing. Stop dealing with teens at risk. Start dealing with the 8, 9, 10, 11 year olds who are floundering either socially. scholastically or emotionally. That’s the surest way to ensure we don’t have teens at risk.
To those who read the harsh remarks about Rav Wollmark.
Please be advise there are many who have an ax to grind against the Rabbi becuase of his previous work with obtaining gitten from less than willing husbands.
Putting himself out there is a danger that draws out all types. Also, not every student in a yeshiva belongs there and a square peg in a round hole will not succeed and nebach may be destroyed.
Sure there maybe misconduct but whose to say
Is this the same Shaul from monsey that had all the wise things to say on the divorce blog? I think he just has an attitude problem.
why would these kids take a cab to rob walmart anyway?
#30 , it is not only kid to kid violence….
I will say that many of our yeshivos have way too many issues with abuse, and we parents get bullied into silence by the hanhala. I think I was very lucky that my son did not go off the derech, as a result of the abuse he suffered in Yeshiva *****. also in Monsey. The teacher who hurt my son did not deny that he did!! My son actually got a concussion from having his head slammed into a locker! I was told to understand that the teacher was having a hard day and that he was otherwise a good teacher. To this day I wish that I would have had more guts, I should have reported him and the school. All I can say now, is that I cannot wait till Moshiach comes, and all these so called mechanchim have their moment. They will all have to give an accounting for the many boys (and girls) they destroyed! I for one thank Hashem for his kindness, that my son has stayed in the fold. I think it would be good if the Gedolim would give a psak that any teacher who hurts a student HAS to be fired immediately, or the parents can call the police, or social services….otherwise, we as parents cannot seem to protect our own kids.
Sorry, never even knew Wollmark was engaged in gittin, and never posted on a divorce blog.
My contention, based is fact, is that Wollmark is unfit to be in chinuch. I stand by that conclusion.
Nor am I surprised he has a few supporters. So does Mondrowitz. What one talmid knows another is b lind to. The anecdotes above mean nothing.
Fact – Schechter was an honor student who was led to drugs and crime due in part by the influence Wollmark had on him. This is undenyable. This is why the chinuch system is broken. Schechter deserves as much as any other child in the system.
53, Thanks for leaving the teacher to slam the next kid. I have a different maiseh.
My son was choked by a teacher. His hand marks were on my son’s neck. I immediately called the principal and told him its either immediate action by the yeshiva or the cops. The teacher was fired within days.
Don’t be afraid to stand up. And use VIN as the great equalizer to inform the public. Don’t fall for the oy vey oooo the loshon harah nonsense these rabbis hide behind and use the Holy Torah as a curtain to hide behind. Nonsense. Knowledge is power.
is it walmart or wollmark that everyone is so excited about?
Shaul, we threatened to call the police, but they refused to capitulate and fire the guy. All we got was an apology from the creep. We are not the fighting type, and really did not want to be a news item in the community, but as you said, we allowed this man to stay in the school, and who knows if he has hurt others as well. I am amazed that your son’s Yeshiva fired the teacher. Years ago when we lived in a different community, (and I was young, energetic, and stupid), another son of mine was picked up by his collar and slammed into the wall…the next day I went in and picked the Rebbe up by his collar and slammed him into the wall, and said, remember, whatever you do to my child, I will do to you the next day! He never touched him or any of my children again!! In hind sight, I know now that I could have been in trouble for that as well….which is why when it happened here in Monsey and I was much older I did not react that way….sigh…all these tzaros that we have with the education system, are all part of the pain of the galus. There are no easy solutions, and if there were, nobody would listen anyway…our “leaders” do not have any power of the system.
number 38 are you n position to help us yes we feel very alone and need eizos how to save our sons life. We have called and tried for two years to get help and have not had any hazlocha yet. We need parents to give us eizos. Its pikuach nefesh . we parents do watch ove r every move our children make but it is impossible to control the hefkeirus that may go on during english when totally incomp teachers are runnig the program. One bachur begins with smoking and the next thing its y our kid. when we parent stry to respect the hanhalla and also try to tell them that something is being done wrong very often they let itout on your child and the parent is labelled as a bad parent. The schools and yeshivos do not work together with the parents to help the child. We need a true partnership for this to work. My son is a true korbon sure ti is a bitter onesh for all of us and an eis zoroh for ;all of us but when did we ever have atime that so many children went ot frum yeshivos and lived in time when parents showed the m so much love of torah and mizvos and they turned so far ind deep into the worst shmutz of the goyish velt so fast and one smoke is one too many. marijuana is stronge than all of us It robs a bachur of his rebbi yeshiva torah mizvos friends family and this should be our greatest priority right now.
Where do you get your info? Schechter was not an honor student. He is a very troubled kid, with a troubled past, whose parents were trying very hard to support him and help him to turn his life around. He was asked to leave Yeshiva many years before this incident because he was having a bad influence on others. It is so easy to blame Rabbi Walmark, but he is only the Rosh Yeshiva, not the Rebbe (Why no beef with Schmelczer, the kook Rebbe?!). Most of the kids who were kicked out of that place should never have been there to begin with and had serious issues at home. It is so easy to blame the school.
Thank you 66 for proving my point. While you are wrong, Schechter was not always “troubled” as you put it, you state, “Most of the kids who were kicked out of that place should never have been there to begin with” so Wallmark had no problem taking the tuition money did he? What kind of yeshiva can only handle the cookie cut prototype student, which by the way may represent 20% of boys today? If every boy would be perfect we wouldn’t need any rabbeim at all, we could automate our schools.
But the fact is that children require attention, and sense, and deserve respect, and teaching them isn’t just a matter of making sure they know the machloikis between rashi and toisfis or some obscure shita mikubetzes. If a child requires extra attention it mandates an expulsion? Sure, treat the kid like a piece of garbage rather than make an effort to teach them. You pegged Wallmark on the head, and that is precisely his problem and what ills his yeshiva.
My son is in Walmark’s yeshiva and now I am beginning to get worried.. where in the original VIN posting does it mention Walmark or the yeshiva’s name..?? Please enlighten me.. i have read and reread it but I am clearly missing that info.
To Oy Gevalt #68 : There was a posting #3 which was deleted which stated all the negative information regarding Wollmark (not Walmart) and his Yeshiva.
#68 ..There is no reason to get worried!! I know who this shaul is and he has a personal beef with Rabbi Wolmark and he’s found a very easy way to post loshon horah without any responsibility because he’s under a cover name.His kid was a screw-up and its very easy to blame his kids problems on the yeshiva. I think he has another kid that didn’t go to sharei torah that also had problems elsewhere. the bottom line is these two guys doing what they did has absolutely nothing to do with Rabbi Wolmark who happens to be an exceptional mechanech. And by the way “SHAUL”, most yeshivos don’t except kids who need extra help unless they are specifically geared towards those kids. Why don’t we all take a look at ourselves and our homes and how we are being mechanech our kids and stop finding easy scapegoats for our kids problems.
Your wrote: “However, people with money, or shall I say people who G-d entrusted with money, usually know how to spend it and how to use it.”
Were you born this foolish or did you work on it?