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Why are non-learning Charedim averse to enlisting in the IDF? I am not asking with any ‘hidden’ agenda (though I realize this may be a loaded question). I know there may be different opinions among the Gedolim, and I’m trying to understand the specific issues / challenges that may be faced by Charedim enlisting in the IDF.
Maybe being in the military makes it hard to keep one’s Yiddishkeit properly? I can understand that , especially while in combat or serving with the divisions that are not frum.
However there are Charedi divisions in the IDF, correct? In addition, aren’t there non-combat options in the Israeli military, not too different from a secular job? Or perhaps they are averse to any secular job in the private sector as well?
All this makes me wonder, is there an aversion to the IDF, not for a practical reason, but simply because it is linked to the State of Israel?
Let me be clear, I completely understand that yeshiva bochurim and yungeleit who are sitting and learning full time should be exempt from the military. Learning Torah takes precedence above all else (assuming others are available), and that is the position of virtually all the Gedolim.
However my question is, someone who is not in yeshiva full-time, what is the problem with enlisting in the IDF, and is this the position of the Gedolim?
I would like to add two points:
1. I believe we often tend to polarize these issues. It’s either “my way or the highway”. However maybe both sides can be valid, and there is not always a cut-and-dry cookie-cutter answer. And it is important to see and respect both sides.
I recently heard a story about the Ponovizher Rav, he had made some sort of agreement with Ben-Gurion, and used to fly the Israeli flag on the roof of the Ponovezh yeshiva on Yom Haatzmaut. One time the bochurim stood outside and protested against the yeshiva displaying the Zionist flag. The Rav came out, looked at the bochurim (protesting against him) and said ‘good’, and encouraged them to protest. It seems he felt that he needed to do his part (whatever his calculations were) by raising the flag, but they needed to do their part as well and push back against him. In other words, he was not afraid of a little conflict, and both sides were valid, as they were both acting L’shem Shamayim. (This is my interpretation).
2. Similarly, it always struck me as interesting, at the end of Megillas Esther, it famously says that Mordechai HaTzaddik was beloved to “most of his brothers’. Rashi explains that although before the story, he was beloved by ALL, he lost support from some in Klal Yisrael, because he joined the Kingdom and the government of Achashveirosh.
Now it is interesting, because the majority of Jews still supported Mordechai, yet a small group did not. Which begs the question, which group was taking the CORRECT position?
It seems that the Megilla is telling us that both positions were valid. There was a minority contingent who felt that they did not want Mordechai as their Gadol, now that he was linked to Achashveirosh. This was their personal “chumrah”. However the majority of Klal Yisrael were not concerned and still supported him fully.
This seems to be the same message as the Ponovezher Rav. Sometimes it is a personal decision, there is not necessarily one right path.
Those who want to be totally immersed and stay away from anything secular, have the right to do so, and it may be highly commendable. However those who do not feel the same aversion have the right to choose the path they are comfortable with as well.
To be clear, I have immeasurable respect for the Gedolim and Daas Torah, I’m simply trying to understand the correct perspective.
–A curious and confused Charedi
PS. Thank you for this amazing news website. You really reflect true Torah values and it is very refreshing.
I think this letter should be addressed to Rabbomim and gedolim, rather than to a news website where only a bunch of people who have nothing better to do, than comment their irrelevent and non-halachic comments!
Rashi’s commentary on Devarim, chapter 33, verse 7 (on Shma H’ Kol Yehudah, VeEl Amo Tebiainu, Yadav Rab Lo, VeEzer MiTzarav Tihiyeh) seems to mean that the Tribe of Yehudah received a berachah for success in war. Rashi’s commentary on Devarim, chapter 33, verse 20 (on CeLabi Shachen and VeTaraf Zeroa) seems to mean that the Tribe of Gad received berachah for success in war. Rashi’s commentary on Devarim, chapter 33, verse 22 (on Dan Gur Arye) seems to mean that the Tribe of Dan received berachah for success in war.
The IDF is a WOKE army It includes coed combat units are well as openly gay and trans soldiers. Even worse is that it orders from politicians who prioritize world public opinion over the lives of our precious soldiers. The IDF must clean up its act before expecting the Haredim to join.
I’m related to the Kahaneman family and That story about Rav Kahaneman is bogus. He was a great supporter of the State of Israel. also I doubt there was ever a demonstration against it by bochurim from Ponevech. The bochurim were enamored by the Rov. There were occasionally demonstrations against it by outsiders, but the Ponevech bochurim would gather to laugh at and make fun of the demonstrators.
Regarding your second point, about Mordechai Hatzadik, the Roggachover has a fascinating explanation on this question (of why only most and not all of the gedolim of the time held him in high regard, as well as why the chachamim felt it important to include this detail in the megila) and is expounded on by the Lubavitcher Rebbe. The gist of it stems from the difference of opinion between the chachamim from Bavel and those from Eretz Yisroel (as Mordechai was) on the status of one’s Torah learning once he becomes involved in tzorchei tzibbur.
(not directly connected to the above article but an interesting point nonetheless)
There are many chareidim in the IDF. I don’t think they should be though. It’s not in line with torah values. There is so much pritzus and yichud going on between male and female soldiers. Among other reasons…..
The answer is very simple and obvious, chareidim do not want to fight in wars when the govt is anti-g-d and anti-Jewish. The Zionist govt is mostly made up of sleazy politicians whose goals are to acquire power, money and control.
Since the State was formed there has only been wars and horrible tragedies (Oct.7; Meron, etc.) More Jews have died since the creation of the state than anywhere else in the world.
The ponvitacha Rav was very sympathetic to zionsim. he invited lots of zionist officials to the yeshiva for its grand opening. Following Israel’s military victories during the Six Day War, he published an article in which he praised these as “obvious miracles”, adding that “even blind people can sense palpable miracles… the miracles, wonders, salvations… the comforts and battles”[11] and called upon recognizing them as such and observing the “wondrous period
Chareidim will NEVER EVER join the IDF
I’m an Israeli Jew. We don’t join the army because they destroy the religious observance of too many of the dati-leumi boys that join. The estimated number is one out of five religious boys become non-frum. We know that if we will send our boys, many will go off the derech. So we are not sending them.
The real question is why isn’t the army accommodating our kids? I don’t mean that we need a shiur in chovos halevovos and six mikvaos onsite, but that they provide for frum kids an appropriate basic framework. Kids don’t go off the derech in camps, why can’t they do that in the army?
Its so wrong!!
Charedim comes the word that means ‘ those who tremble’, those who have a high amount of awe of Hashem. Do the so-called charedim really tremble from Hashem’s presence?
Israel does not need a military draft at all. There enough men who would volunteer to be full time professional soldiers (who are much better in any case) and Israel has such high tech fighting means, which should be taken to a new level instead of old fashioned fighting men. Just like drones in the sky can do everything a human piloted airplane can do, robotic fighting machines controlled by some computer game geek with a joy stick can do a lot more than a frail human on the ground.
The main reason for the draft in Israel is to indoctrinate Zionism into young minds.
Chareidim don’t play soccer because it’s a Zionist activity. You’re asking why they don’t want to join the army???
The real opposotion for joining the army isn’t religous and its simply because most gedolim aside for R Aron Leib are scared to say that people should go to work at least voluntarily. That being said the fact that the govt is trying to “force” charedrim to fight. That only encourages ,more opposition and separatism. The solution is to work with cahredim and slowly nudge them. We see a far greater number than we have ever enviosned joined after Oct 7. Make them want to join .
Chareidim cannot possibly serve in the Zionist army for the same reason that no Jew could possibly study to become a Catholic priest, and for even more reasons than that.