KYO Restaurant Update
By: Rabbi Zushe Blech
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Monsey, NY – KYO Restaurant has successfully served the kosher community in Monsey for over six years. It has enjoyed great popularity, drawing a sophisticated clientele from all over the tri-state area.
The restaurant has always been supervised by an eminently reliable kosher certification and has maintained impeccable kosher credentials.
The recent change of mashgiach had occasioned some questions in the community, which were addressed by the rav ha’machshir, and the kashrus of the establishment had not been affected. In light of the concerns expressed, however, the rav ha’machshir felt that the needs of the community could be best served by having the kashrus of the establishment overseen by a local rav.
At that point, I was contacted by the rav ha’machshir to assume the hashgachah, so as to ensure the success of the restaurant and its hashgachah.
I have agreed to undertake this project at the express request of the previous rav ha’machshir, as well as many prominent rabbonim in Monsey. These rabbonim, from all segments of the Orthodox community, felt very strongly that the restaurant is an important asset to the community and should be supported, both in terms of kashrus and by the community.
As such, they have given me their support in providing the kosher certification, for which I am very indebted. I have also taken the opportunity of adding additional safeguards to the hashgachah, including camera surveillance, and ensuring that the mashgiach is insulated from financial issues from the owner.
In summation, I am very satisfied with the kashrus at the restaurant, and I am confident that the community will continue to be well served by the restaurant. [jewishpress]
It would seem to me that if the owner was indeed caught with treifus no lawsuit would be sufficient to rebuke the chage that he is not trustworthy and every single rav hamachsher could individually tell him that I personally do not want to do business with you and give you a hasghgocha. He would have no legal recourse because no law requires me to do business with someone that I do not want to do business with. It would seem there was never a problem if they offered him a hashgocha for what ever reason, with or without the threat of a lawsuit. I personally have never eaten there but it does not seem there was a problem with the kashrus.
KYO is the only decent kosher eatery in monsey.
Fact – They always had a Mashgiach Tmidi.
Fact – No one ever reported any wrongdoing by KYO restaurant.
Fact – A Mashgiach was layed off and threatened to ruin their business.
Fact – Many Hechsherim are searching how to destroy their competitor.
Fact – A new organization was opened in monsey since the Finkel story, so far they have asked the monsey residents to contribute money for their non paid mashgichim and we have not heard from them since. Now they got all the rabbanim of monsey to sign the issur of giving hashgacha for a non jew and a few days later they had a retraction.
You Figure Out The Rest!
There prices are HIGH – Thats why they are losing customers and has seen a drop in business
A poster wrote: “Hahlevai we should be this makpid when it comes to the asseres hadibrose.“
Why? Are the Aseres Hadibros somehow more important than any of the other 603 Mitzvos in the Torah, such as Kashrus?
Shlomah, please take down this story. Its been so pleasant eating at KYO over the past couple of months, no big crowds, no waiting and this is going to ruin it.
6:07 PM
I personally have a friend that is so makpid with kashrus, and everything else pertaining to yiddishkeit, that she she barely buys anything from the grocery. She actually makes her own bread, grape juice/wine, jam/jelly, etc. etc.
The entire family are those type of people that don’t eat anything outside their own home even when marrying off a child they don’t eat at the hall.
For all you ppl who dont trust anyone…
I take it you grow your own wheat and milk your own cows etc.
i learnt one thing! DONT rely on ANYONE! whether it is a jew or not you must make sure there is a mahgiach temidi, DONT rely on the sign!before going into any restaurant, you must do a big investigation! especially nowadays!
a hechsher should not have to become
a detective agency.
a factory is much easier than a restaurant.
ther is no requirement as of yet, for the seven laws of noah.
if s mshgisch csn not remove a hechsher on his own without consultation with the supervising agency were is the eid eched?
can you give a hechsher to a private place not a factory that threatens lawsuit?
what /who are you releying on?
if kosher is something you take seriously ,keep walking!!
if some one out there has a solution,bring it on.
i love food.
Hahlevai we should be this makpid when it comes to the asseres hadibrose.
When there’s a sign outside a restaurant saying there’s a Masgiach Temidi on the premisis and mentions the person’s name we must check the person’s credentials. What kind of a Jew is he? Is he reliable?
We can NOT take for granted that because someone says their food is 100% kosher, that it’s actually true.
There are plenty of very frum people that would NOT eat anyplace outside their own home. Even if their own child is getting married they still won’t eat in that hall. They’ll eat at home before they come to the wedding or go somewhere privately in the hall and eat their own food.
Although there are plenty of people that are very machmir especially on meat products, they won’t eat anything else but the kashrus they’ve been using for years and years. For example, if there is a choice between eating Pupa Shechita, Bobov Shechita or Satmar Shechita, some will still stick with only the Satmar Shechita. This is not to mention that something is wrong with the other 2 shechitas. When a person belongs to a specific chassidus they’ll only eat that type of chassidus’s shechita. Meaning a Bobover will only eat bobov shechita, Pupa Chasidiim will only eat Pupa Shechita and Satmar will only eat Satmar Shechita.
Although there’s not such a big issue with eating fish from other people’s homes, restaurants, this is still one type of food that they’ll still eat in the catering hall, at a yehiva dinner, etc.
We must all feel comfortable with ourselves in trusting the person in giving out their kashrus. As long as we know of him, heard alot about him then it shouldn’t be a problem with us eating his shechita.
I am in the kashrus business, and must relate my feelings.
IMHO, IF there are full-time professionally-trained mashgichim who are yirai shmayim, on the premises every minute there is anyone there,
and IF these full-time mashgichim, are supervised by a Rov HaMachshir who knows what is is doing, meaning he backs his mashgichim, and does not take the side of the owner against them,
and IF the owner truly WANTS to cooperate with the mashgichim and rav Hamachshir,
and IF the owner does not have the key, and the mashgiach opens and closes,
and IF the mashgichim overlap shifts enough for good communication and cooperation between them,
Then, and only then, do I believe things can work out with a goy as an owner.
Ah… what is the chiudush, you ask? That sounds like the only way to work with a Goy as an owner, since we would do no differently with a less than chareidi owner.
I then add the following:
TODAY, THESE MUST BE THE MINIMUM STANDARDS FOR ALL OWNERS. PERIOD.
1) “MIRSUS” is dead. He was killed by the “oooops” I messed up society which forgives all mistakes. This means that EVERY ONWER REQUIRED A STAFF OF MASHGICHIM TEMIDIM.
2) Who else killed Mr. Mirsus? The local rabbonim who pressure a rav hamachshir to give a store or restaurant “one more chance” since it is such an important asset to the community.
I presonally know of a case where hashgacha was pulled from a very busy place that was a take out and caterer. They were caught on film, intentionally taking their packaging over to a treif Chinese Restaurant and having them fill it with their treif Sushi, and they then sealed it in their containers with their name on it.
They were caught dead to rights, and the hashgacha was properly removed. This had not been the first problem, by the way.
The Rav HaMachsir then was inundated by phone calls from other rabbonim, “We needs XXXXXX, nobody makes a nicer kiddush for our shul without charging twice the price. Can’t you work something out and get them back open?”
The establishment reopened a short time later, with some “precautions” that were, of course, totally inadequate.
NO PRECAUTION IS ADEQUATE when the owner INTENDS TO DECEIVE.
Once deception is found, second chances are bad. They may sound like sensible compromises at the moment, but they have KILLED MR. MIRSUS. Boruch Dayan Emes.
Since we now live in a world of second chances, supervision MUST be total and complete, and only offered with a cooperative owner and management. If either owner or management tries to subvert the kashrus, and it is clearly intentional, we MUST close the place down/remove certification, and so advertize!!
Unfortunately, there is a new factory also. We now have non yirai shamayim, who are disguising themselves as Real Frummies, who want to be trusted more, and to be allowed to “at least let us come in early to cook a little, or clean up without having to pay for a mashgiach. We are frum, don’t you trust us?”
The correct answer should be:
“NO! WE TRUST NO ONE.”
or, a little nicer:
“Reb Owner, we may trust YOU, but we do not trust a few other frum-looking and outwardly behaving owners. So, how do we allow a Yotzai V’Nichnas with you and not with the others? Our policy now is to not certify any place based upon yotzai v’nichnas.”
Today, unfortunately, Yotzai V’Nichnas does not work. Mirsus is dead.
Supervision must be from turning the key to open, to snapping the lock closed.
Mashgichim MUST earn enough that they can save enough money, so that they are not if fear of losing a job.
Mashgichim should NEVER be left without work if a hashgacha needs to be pulled! This will leave a fear in the Mashgiach’s heart, and make him afraid to report a problem. A mashgiach should be promised continuous employment, at decent salaries.
Pay needs to come from the Kashrus agency, NOT the customer.
Every Mashgiach must feel VERY comfortabel to pick up their cell phone and call the Rav HaMachshir at ANY time to discuss any problem. If the Rav HaMachshir acts like the mashgiach is annoying him, the mashgiach may not call next time.
If a you feel a certain mashgiach is too timid, or too shy to report a problem promptly, or ask a question promptly, even if it means asking the owner to stop the operation until he completes the phone call, FIRE HIM, HE IS USELESS for this job.
Unfortunately, almost everyone I know in the biz who reads what I wrote will say, “Wow. Those are wonderful ideal. HaLevey we could do this, but …..”
And that is why it is so hard to rely on kashrus today.
Also, as long as you are willing to read my long-winded story, I may add. We must learn to respect the different minhagim. When we are Ashkenazim, and rely on an Ashkanazy heter, that Sepharadim do not allow, we really should so state on the Teuda: Kosher for Ashkenazim
Or state what the Heterim are. I know of a Sepharadi Rov who could not believe that he was eating for years from a place with a Heimishe hechsher, that relied on a light bulb in the oven or a pilot light, to avoid bishul akum. This truly very shvach heter is widely used today, unfortunately by many Ashkanazi Rabbonim. We should ceast and desist doing this. Heterim should be disclosed.
“These rabbonim, from all segments of the Orthodox community, felt very strongly that the restaurant is an important asset to the community and should be supported, both in terms of kashrus and by the community”.
WHEN YOU GET SUED YOU GET SCARED!!!!!!!!!!
You people have your collective heads so far up your yeah that you are almost half way up your small intestine!
I know Rabbi Blech for over 20 years and if he says something, there is NO DOUBT as to that being 100% emes!
Let’s give a tremendous Yashar Koach to Rabbi Gissinger for not leaving the bal ha’bus in a lurch. Whether or not he would have attempted a lawsuit (and possibly been matzliach!) is irrelavent. BH a Kidush HaShem came out and that is final.
For all you “know betters” out there are are really “know nothings,” when there is a business in place, you cannot just change the rules in mid-stream.
1:54 – Precisely. One can rely on the cheskas kashrus of a frum yid if one so desires. Which means that the concept of hashgacha by a third party is best suited for an owner who isn’t Jewish and who has no chezkas kashrus.
In Europe, in places where there was no Jewish-owned bakeries, pas akum with hashgacha / a Jewish person lighting the flame, was muttar. If you stopped eating food from kosher companies owned by non Jews, you would probably starve. As a practical and spiritual matter, it’s not wise to be frummer than Hashem.
Obvioulsy there is a basic lack of knowlege on the topic of restaurant kashrus. As long as there is a full time mashgiach –there is no difrentiation between a Jewish owner or lack thereof –as long as the overall hashgochoh is reliable.
This is a case of politics –so-called Rabbonim pressuring a hashgochoh to remove their hashgochoh.
The new hashgochoh took on this restaurant as a result of the outcry against the actions of the various rabbonim –despite the announcement to the contarary.
The Finkel story is just the point: the Rabbanim have a new way of doing things, they check out the owners and have to be comfortable with them in order to give a hechsher. You gotta be nuts to eat in a place owned by a non jew.
to 1:54: what a foolish thing to say!!!! Look at restaurants around the world owned by goyim. How do you explain choshuva hashgochos giving hashgochoh on these places??
Anonymous said…
Atleast when you were Nichshal by Finkel you could claim to the B”D Shell Maalueh that you relied on Finkels Cheskaas Kashrus, But when a Goy is in the Picture then you’re just a plain old fashioned Mayzid!
December 31, 2007 1:54 PM
what was the HECSHER about? whats the diference if te owner is jewish? i rely on the hecher NOT on the owner!
Atleast when you were Nichshal by Finkel you could claim to the B”D Shell Maalueh that you relied on Finkels Cheskaas Kashrus, But when a Goy is in the Picture then you’re just a plain old fashioned Mayzid!
By the way after the finkle story what credibility do the so-called Monsey Rabboinim have??
December 31, 2007 12:40 PM
So what are you gonna do eat treifas????
their food is great thats the bottom line if u didi’nt try it ur just holding ur self back because of some politics!!
To anon 12.17.
Halachickly there is no difrentiation betwen an estblishment owned by a non-jew as opposed to a jew –as proven by the finkle story.
By the way after the finkle story what credibility do the so-called Monsey Rabboinim have??
Anonymous said…
Are the owners shomrai torah u’mitzvos?
December 31, 2007 12:22 PM
IF THE ARE NON JEWISH HOW COULD THE BE SHOMRE TORA UMITZVOS?????
Are the owners shomrai torah u’mitzvos?
I heard about a agreement by all monsey robonim, NOT to give a hechsher to a non-jewish store.
WHAT CHANGED??
Here is the real story.
The restaurant had a very good hechsher and everything was ok until an employee was given a pink slip. He was not going to leave quietly so he started rumors and contacted the Vaad Hakasrus of Monsey. Since they have nothing better to do they started a firestorm and tried to remove the hechsher based on the words of a fired employee. When that did not fly (because everything was indeed kosher lemehadrin) they blamed it on the fact that the owner is a non-jewish person. After that the owner of the restaurant (Non-jewish) threatened a law suit and the rabanim of Monsey pis..d in their pants so they had to settle without embarrassing themselves. So we have the perfect solution; a new hecsher from a local rav (who BTW is a very good baal machshir, but nothing better then the previous one), same old (non0jewish) owner, same old mashgiach etc.